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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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 Is a straight answer possible? 
#609803 - 04/16/02 07:33 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Now I have asked this question in a hundred different ways, but cannot get one straight answer without a dance-around.
According to a large number of posters here, paranormal powers exist, but may only be exhibited in the presence of believers.
If this statement is true, then an authentic psychic would be totally indistingushable from a fraudulent psychic to both believers and skeptics. If they are indistinguishable then there is no difference (signature quote once again).
If they are distinguishable, then how?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 skaMariaPastora
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#609973 - 04/16/02 11:42 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's the catch, you have to believe in it for it to work. Telepathy isn't a physical thing that can be easily verified. Its mental. And if a paranormal event doesn't fit in with your view of the world, your mind will not accept it. Telepathy has to do with a sender sending a signal to a receiver, whose open mind picks it up. However, if your mind is so closed that you can't even accept the phenomenon's existence, how can you ever expect receive anything? Again, this is not a wrecking ball that can penetrate anyone's defenses, it is delicate and subtle. Its only when you open your mind up to it do you begin to see.
I can't really expect you to accept this explanation, but that's how I see it.
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Floydian
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#610002 - 04/16/02 12:17 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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hmmm. I think this just goes to show us that most people who claim to have special powers are frauds. Believers want to believe so they are more easily fooled into believing in magic tricks and illusions. Skeptics don't believe because they either can't proove the powers or they can disproove them.
Anyone seen that street magician guy on TLC that claims he can levitate. They show him levetating plain as day on the screen but I still think its just a trick. Some people are just really really good at creating illusions.
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Don't squeeze the pancake batter
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Lallafa
p_g monocle
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"Telepathy has to do with a sender sending a signal to a receiver, whose open mind picks it up."
if this is possible, it should be easily proven
you dont have to experience it to see that its possible
set up an experiment with two believers and prove that they can communicate telepathically
cant do it? neither can anybody else.
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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson
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Insomniac
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Floydian]
#610198 - 04/16/02 05:08 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Supposedly this is how David Blaine did that levitation trick.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/7308/balducci.html
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Floydian
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Insomniac]
#610278 - 04/14/02 03:15 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Figures it would be so simple. Thanks for the link.
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Don't squeeze the pancake batter
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Anonymous
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#610405 - 04/14/02 06:22 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i've experience telepathy, so i know it exists...
the ability to control it would be another thing, but I figure that it is possible.
Edited by Smack31 (04/14/02 06:24 PM)
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Anonymous]
#610410 - 04/14/02 06:26 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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it exists like a sixth sense, sometimes you can kinds tell what someone is thinking, even if they arn't giving it away with body language. if your in tune that is
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Growing anything is good for the soul
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sir tripsalot
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611285 - 04/17/02 08:58 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's how it works. Just like people who claim they can use dowsing rods. They say onlookers cause bad vibes and make it not work. Its a win win situation for them.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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bedetached
supercalifragolisticexpialidocious
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Insomniac]
#611302 - 04/17/02 09:23 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i used to do a little magicianship on the side for money, mostly hired for kids parties and little shit like that, well, i did the same levataion trick the blaine does, its all about positioning the audience the right way, then lift off the back foots toe, next time you see him youll see what i mean
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through our senses the world appears. through our reactions we create delusions. without reactions the world becomes clear.
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JPAtanat
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611367 - 04/17/02 10:32 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think there are a lot of stigmas attached to "psychic powers" and other such mysticism that scientifically minded people have a hard time buying since it seems to be so subjective. But i would argue that people can possess psychic abilities, and they are natural, not supernatural. It is the everyday mind of discursive thought that keeps most people from having it. It is the rationalizing and the constant need for affirmation and proof that obscures our intuition and inherent wisdom. If you can silence your mind for long enough, then when you look at a person you can see that they are a complete expression unto themselves; that nothing is left unsaid in the present moment. I might also mention that another reason for alot of skepticism is that there are many people who are not seeing clearly, but are deluded and seeing what they want to see. A couple of like-minded stoners get together and they think that through the cloud of drugs they can see clearly or "telepathize" but really they are just seeing a cloud of drugs. Now that is just a thought, I don't want anyone to be offended by that. I just mean to say that if there is telepathy, it seems like it should be a normal thing that people can experience through open-mindedness, lack of self-delusion, and inherent wisdom (and probably not a supernatural thing experienced only by some deluded people under the influence of drugs).
Peace.....
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Sclorch
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#611381 - 04/17/02 10:44 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Swami- I have yet to see a straight answer.
I feel your pain, really.
Insomniac- Did you happen to see the TV expose on Blaine's trick? I think it was on Fox. I was really pissed that it was just a cheap camera trick (I've known about the Balducci trick for a long time, but I was amazed by how high Blaine got). At least Penn & Teller show you how they used a camera gimmick (rather than a more skillful sleight).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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cHeMiCaLbLuE
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611390 - 04/17/02 10:57 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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if no believers or skeptics exsisted in regards to physcics then there would have never exsisted a true phsycic.
what you think someone just woke up one day and decided to make money off people by feeding them false bullshit about stuff that will happen to them, and i guess thats how it grew to the multi-billion dollar industry status it's at right now.
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insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.
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theLightDivine
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611394 - 04/17/02 11:00 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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This thread has become a bit of a mess...
What exactly is the straight question in need of a straight answer?
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??• W? ?r? ?ll †h?L?ght?iv?n? •??
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611404 - 04/17/02 11:10 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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If this statement is true, then an authentic psychic would be totally indistingushable from a fraudulent psychic to both believers and skeptics. If they are indistinguishable then there is no difference (signature quote once again).
If they are distinguishable, then how?
Its like telling the difference between a healthy man, and his identically twin brother with aids.......when your standing on the moon.
Clear?
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
#611551 - 04/18/02 02:08 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Exactly my point. Do you consider your man on the moon analogy "a straight answer"? What then would be an obtuse answer?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: theLightDivine]
#611559 - 04/18/02 02:12 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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What exactly is the straight question in need of a straight answer?
How does one tell a "real" psychic from a fraud as both require the presence of believers and the absence of skeptics?
Some dozen responses without my requested straight answer. Oh, well...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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raytrace
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611621 - 04/18/02 03:44 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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about the randi competition:
"...be advised that several claimants have suffered great personal embarrassment after failing..."
frauds would not show up, since they know they are frauds.
people trying their abilities for their first time there, or by only having accidental occurence, don't think so.
were there people that had been successful and validated their psychic abilities before going for the randi competition, but they were unable to do so under these circumstances, because of a factor present in these tests? I mean how do you explain people intentionally making fool of themselves?
were they deluding themselves? in which way?
i'm not trying to support anything, i'm trying to find out..
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raytrace
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#611660 - 04/18/02 05:10 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i reckon it would be difficult to prove the "feeling of being stared" in front of hardcore closed-minded people that do not open themselves to the posibility it might be true, since itself is suggestive of overlapping mental fields. if it is true, at the same time it is very hard to prove in front of the eyes of people that would lose a million dollar instantly.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#611833 - 04/18/02 11:05 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Amazing side-stepping as expected, but still no answer.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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raytrace
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611850 - 04/18/02 11:18 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i'm just trying to discuss, sorry for doing this under your strict "answer only my question" thread.
pretty nice side-stepping of my questions too.
Edited by raytrace (04/18/02 11:18 AM)
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Tannis
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611854 - 04/18/02 11:21 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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..........by their fruits you shall know them.......
How does the supposed psychic live, and what is their track record? Have they gained some respect and credibility with both believer and skeptic?
Still-----the deciding vote comes from the "receiver" and is two fold----the receiver must believe, and get the desired results.
Many "receivers" are not believers though........
Whenever I "sense" something (spirit, energy, etc.) it is something that I just "know". It is as real to me as the computer terminal I am typing on but is not real in the five physical senses.......there is something real beyond those senses. I don't understand it, and can't completely explain it, but it is a "knowing" so incrediblly real that it is beyond question.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611901 - 04/18/02 12:08 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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My post was based partially in sarcasm (as if you couldn't tell  ) My answer is that you cannot tell the difference between a true psychic and a phoney. Unless of course you find some way of becoming them. The fact is you can't trust anyone that comes up to you with a label that they are psychic. The only one that KNOWS psychics exist are the psychics. The rest of us can only postulate.
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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Swami
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#611907 - 04/18/02 12:16 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i'm just trying to discuss, sorry for doing this under your strict "answer only my question" thread.
Ok. I will forgive you this ONE time.
pretty nice side-stepping of my questions too.
Not even close to side-stepping. You expect me to answer for the motivation and failure of others?
were there people that had been successful and validated their psychic abilities before going for the randi competition, but they were unable to do so under these circumstances, because of a factor present in these tests?
Validated where? Randi actually allows the testee to design the test, but under strict controls.
I mean how do you explain people intentionally making fool of themselves?
Self delusion...?
were they deluding themselves? in which way?
In the way of thinking that they have special powers.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (04/18/02 03:48 PM)
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raytrace
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611969 - 04/18/02 01:22 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I will forgive you this ONE time.
thank you i will not sin again
You expect me to answer for the motivation and failure of others?
as you expect my only input to this thread to be the answer to your question
In the way of thinking that they have speical powers.
i thought i'd get a more sophisticated answer but thanks anyway
Edited by raytrace (04/18/02 01:24 PM)
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Swami
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#612081 - 04/18/02 03:54 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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as you expect my only input to this thread to be the answer to your question
Actually I expected exactly the types of responses that I got. Seems that not one "believer" in the several thousand here can give a direct, concise, educated answer.
i thought i'd get a more sophisticated answer but thanks anyway
*Hangs head in disgrace*
Well, you get what you pay for. Besides, I never intimated to anyone here that I was sophisticated.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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StrangeDays
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612280 - 04/18/02 07:56 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Swami,
I have not read the thread but I have a question for you anyways..
It's about living in the realm of relativity...
For the physical universe to exist, must not there be a non-physical Universe existing ?
If no, are you saying that there is no such thing as a non-physical Universe? So if no, the statement, "Only the physical universe exists" would be an absolute truth ?
Thankyou
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JPAtanat
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612364 - 04/18/02 09:18 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Swami, I feel like my answer was pretty straight-forward and understandable. If you are looking for someone to hand you the Truth on a silver platter, you are waiting in vain, my friend. If you want an answer, why would you take any of our words for it anyway? It seems clear to me you are not interested in doing that, so why don't you go out and figure it out for yourself?
Peace...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#612557 - 04/19/02 12:49 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think there are a lot of stigmas attached to "psychic powers" and other such mysticism that scientifically minded people have a hard time buying since it seems to be so subjective.
We have a hard time buying something that cannot be demonstrated.
But i would argue that people can possess psychic abilities, and they are natural, not supernatural.
You would?
It is the everyday mind of discursive thought that keeps most people from having it.
How do you know what keeps people from having it when no one can demonstrate it?
It is the rationalizing and the constant need for affirmation and proof that obscures our intuition and inherent wisdom.
There is no "constant" need. Demonstrate it once! The rationalizing is all done on the side of people making claims.
If you can silence your mind for long enough, then when you look at a person you can see that they are a complete expression unto themselves; that nothing is left unsaid in the present moment.
Thank you for pointing out my potential, but why don't you show me seeing as how you already possess this talent?
I might also mention that another reason for alot of skepticism is...
There is ONLY one reason for skepticism. The constant dodging and lack of a demonstration!
Swami, I feel like my answer was pretty straight-forward and understandable.
Good for you. Read it a half dozen times. Where is the part that tells one how to disitnguish an authentic from a phoney psychic which was my only question?
If you are looking for someone to hand you the Truth on a silver platter, you are waiting in vain, my friend.
Who asked for Truth?
If you want an answer, why would you take any of our words for it anyway?
Responding to a question with a question is as far away from a straight answer as one can get.
It seems clear to me you are not interested in doing that, so why don't you go out and figure it out for yourself?
I am interested, but so far there has been no answer to even consider. Responding to a question with a question is NO answer.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (04/19/02 03:12 PM)
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infidelGOD
illusion
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612611 - 04/19/02 03:19 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Disclaimer: I am not attempting to give a straight answer to your question.
I think that logic is a very powerful tool, but there are some things that exist beyond the realm of logic and evidence. For example, do you have a soul?
Can you demonstrate it? If not, it doesn't exist. Do you have free will?
According to your logic, If something can't be demonstrated, it must not exist.
Then, God is not real, we are soulless automatons, without free will. There is no spirituality, no afterlife, no ghosts, demons or aliens. There are no neutron stars, quasars, neutrinos, no black holes. (I've never seen one 'demonstrated'). In fact there can be no time, no evolution, and I can't even begin to prove that I exist, that it's an actual human being that has written this and not a figment of your imagination, creating these words as you're reading them.
This is a pretty bleak world you live in Swami.
I'm a bit of a skeptic myself, I'm always skeptical of anyone who claims to have 'special' powers but I keep an open mind. I think there is something to ESP and telepathy and I think that science will eventually prove it.
These believers are not trying to 'prove' anything, they simply believe. And if they believe, it's real to them regardless of what you or I think. It's a choice they make. And if you had the choice of living in a world of possiblities and a world of rigid logic, which would you choose?
Christianity (or any religion) might be all fake but the millions of people that have believed it has changed the world in tangible ways haven't they? It has changed lives. (for better or worse) So a belief in something that is not real has created something that is real. I don't have to prove that God exists, only that millions of people believe that he exists. Their belief makes him real.
Things are not as static as your logic suggests. Psychic phenomona isn't something that either is or isn't. It is something that can become real if our minds are willing. Maybe we're still evolving and we're only seeing a glimpse of what is to come. The only thing stopping us is our own self-imposed limitations.
You might not believe in psychics but do you at least believe that human beings
have a spiritual dimension?>
Do human beings have souls?>
Don't let your 'blind faith' in logic blind you to the possibilies of the human mind.
Peace.
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Anonymous
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#612617 - 04/19/02 03:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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nice post...
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raytrace
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612653 - 04/19/02 04:44 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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you can tell by their eyes !
Edited by raytrace (04/19/02 04:45 AM)
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JPAtanat
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612909 - 04/19/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"You would?" Swami
Yes I would, that is why I wrote it. If you read my entry with an open mind you might understand why I said that but appears to me that you simply went through sentence by sentence disclaiming everything I said. Congratulations.....
"There is no "constant" need. Demonstrate it once! " Swami
The constant need of which I spoke was in reference not specifically to this issue but to the general menatlity of most people nowadays that their experience must be validated for it to be real, yet how can experience not be real. I understand that you question whether poeples experience is genuine. I personally have not experienced telepathy, but I have heard tibetan lamas and other yogis and meditation adepts are able, and I believe that.
Skepticism is good and necessary, Swami, but not when it is attached to rigid unaccepting thought rooted in a preconceived idea. You are clearly predisposed to a disbelief in telepathy (and apparently many other things), because of this even if there was enough "evidence" or "proof" or whatever it is you are looking for, you would find a way to discredit it. infidel made good points in his message on this.
I do not know what you are asking for when you say "straight answer" but more importantly I don't think you do either. Plenty of interesting responses have been supplied, many stating valid opinions, yet you have not once said, thats interesting, or anything positive or indicating that you actually understood the messages thoroughly. Yes opinions, as I said, if you are looking for Truth, you will not find it in this forum. You can only find that within yourself, but as it is you seem to be to busy forcing all experience through your gauntlet of rational thinking leaving everything twisted and ultimately everything you do not already accept impossible.
I imagine you might reply to this message, sentence by sentence once again, pointing out to me every place I have flawed logic. Oh well. It seems so unfortunate to me that such a seemingly intelligent and eloquent person such as yourself should be so closed-minded and hell-bent on the ever-elusive, never-satisfactory "proof." I hope that if not Swami, then maybe others reading this will really understand what the hell I am trying to say.
Peace
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#612945 - 04/19/02 01:43 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Swami this and Swami that - attitude, skepticism, etc. blah, blah, blah...
Two pages of replies and not ONE answer. Seems most people here have a severe reading disorder.
There was only ONE question posited at the beginning:
How is a fraudulent psychic distinguishable from an authentic one?
What part of any of your posts is an answer?
There are four appropriate answers:
A. NO response.
B. "I don't know."
C. "It is impossible to tell them apart."
D. "Here is methodology for how one can tell..."
This is not about me controlling the thread, but about the fact that every response is a dodge as predicted.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612954 - 04/19/02 02:02 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been waiting for a straight answer myself. I WANT TO BELIEVE. But all I ever read or hear from others are rationalizations, attempts to redirect honest inquiry, circular reasoning, meaningless new age double speak or amateur psychoanalysis of those who are labeled 'skeptics' instead of actually addressing the issue of validating the assertions made.
I'll give you my answer, Swami. I don't know, and as long as believers lack the strength of their convictions to subject their beliefs to validation I will never know.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: ]
#612962 - 04/19/02 02:10 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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*Falls to his knees* Hallelujah! An actual response.
Thanks evolving.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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HunabKu
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612973 - 04/19/02 02:20 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's like schroedinger's cat. It's both alive and dead until you observe it. If you never look in the box, you never know how the cat is. If you're not there the fraud and the true visionary are indistinguishable. McKenna said the technique is to dissolve boundaries. Then you realize that you are in fact both the faker and the truth.
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Sclorch
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: HunabKu]
#613123 - 04/19/02 05:37 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just when you thought the bs ran out.... hehe
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#613128 - 04/19/02 05:45 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Truth is fleeting, but BS is forever...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613131 - 04/19/02 05:50 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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LOL
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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JPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613274 - 04/19/02 08:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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As you predicted, of course. I doubt things would go otherwise. There are no answers here that have caused me to deeply question what I believe, and I can see that that is true for you too Swami. However, there have been interesting responses. I can see though that if they do not fit into your four categories of "appropriate responses" then they are worthless. As I suspected, you are not going to allow yourself to get anything out of this forum.
Sorry for the disappoinment here Swami.
By the way, I too am a skeptic and do not believe in paranormal psychic powers, however when I engage in this forum I try to suspend my judgements and preconceptions of other's responses in order to understand them on their own terms. But apparently the ignorance of the rest of us is distressing to you. I do not see why you keep posting here.
Peace...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#613472 - 04/20/02 01:59 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can see though that if they do not fit into your four categories of "appropriate responses" then they are worthless.
They are not worthless, but are not "straight" answers; once again showing that it is impossible for a "believer" to give a straight answer."
If I ask, "How much is 1+1?" And you reply, "You would not believe me if I told you." or "You could not handle the answer."
Would you call those straight answers? Yes or No.
I do not see why you keep posting here.
Dissecting my motivation is a favorite side-step on this forum.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Insomniac
Stranger
Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613494 - 04/20/02 02:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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How is a fraudulent psychic distinguishable from an authentic one?
I honestly don't know. I also don't know if there are people that are actually able to do it, but for some reason I still think it's possible.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Insomniac]
#613520 - 04/20/02 03:34 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Possibility and actuality are completely distinct entities.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613536 - 04/20/02 04:14 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who says that the powers of an authentic psychic may only be exhibited in the presence of believers?
The 'powers' of an authentic psychic are what exactly?
If someone wanted to go about proving the authenticity of a psychic, what criteria would need to be filled?
Keep in mind that a 'real' psychic can never be proven. In fact, nothing can be PROVEN! There are no truths. The correct answer is one that a set of circumstances has yet to prove it false. That is to say, 'its only true because we havent found an ocasion proving it not to be'.
Everyone thought that Newtonian Law was true because it hadnt been disproven, but along came Einstein giving us a set of circumstances that disprove it.
Without further dance-around, a fraudulent psychic would be proven to be so and therefore distiguishable from an authentic psychic, when he cannot replicate the effects that the authentic psychic can. If he cant do the same thing as the 'established' psychic, then he is different and therefore fraudulent.
So the real question here is, why do ppl believe in psychics (or anything) since they cant prove it?
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We have to answer our own prayers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613556 - 04/20/02 05:14 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hang on swami, what makes you think that "science" or "logic" is a valid way of looking at the universe? Are you really so sure that mankind has figured out everything there is to know in the last 400 years? Doesn't sound too likely to me. Sounds about as likely as the idea that we are all just thoughts in an aliens mind.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Xlea321]
#613661 - 04/20/02 08:54 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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*Yawn* Another dodge...
what makes you think that "science" or "logic" is a valid way of looking at the universe?
Nowhere in this entire thread did I use the words logic or science. More reading comprehension problems.
I will answer you self-evident question anyway:
Your computer, TV, radio, cell phone, car, refridgerator, microwave, medicine, etc; all give credence to the scientific approach.
Now let's list what the psychic approach has given to mankind: Nuttin' honey.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613879 - 04/20/02 01:32 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's not true Swami... my computer works on Psychic energies. Although it seems like it is made up of microchips and transistors and wires and connectors and more wires and gadgets..... it is not! All those devices are just a clever ruse... the gadgets and devices don't actually DO anything. The ethereal "psychic motor" (which can only be seen by believers) is what is responsible for the "software" output that corresponds to this and/or that keystroke. In a sense, I'm using magic by pressing down on these strange alien rune "stone" keys. The "computing" power is just a joke... all the computation is magic (ie. alien technology embedded in the "plastic" rune stones arranged in a holy pattern - the pattern is called QWERTY). QWERTY was an alien priest from 4 billion years ago. QWERTY came from K-JAX (not KPAX, the movie ripoff). QWERTY built the pyramids....
It is all about QWERTY.
Wildcat... wildcat... yeah, er... I gotta go.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#613930 - 04/20/02 02:55 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"my computer works on Psychic energies...
QWERTY was an alien priest from 4 billion years ago. QWERTY came from K-JAX (not KPAX, the movie ripoff)."
LOL. good one
but seriously,
I agree that there is nothing mysterious about the computer - it is all based on solid scientific principles. But it all depends on your frame of reference. A man from the 5th century BC can very well see it as magic.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- I forgot who said this, it was either Carl Sagan or Arthur C. Clarke, or maybe Asimov?
But the point is that even if the man from the past was a strict adherent to logic such as yourself or Swami (I'm assuming that you are from your posts here), it would still appear to be magic to him.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#613943 - 04/20/02 03:08 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I forgot who said this, it was either Carl Sagan or Arthur C. Clarke, or maybe Asimov
It was Clark.
But the point is that even if the man from the past was a strict adherent to logic such as yourself or Swami (I'm assuming that you are from your posts here), it would still appear to be magic to him.
The point is that whether it appeared to him as magic or not, he would still be able to witness it in action unlike said psychic phenomema.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#614036 - 04/20/02 05:29 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wasn't relating to psychic phenomena specifically. I was saying that in 5th century there was no logical foundation for a computer to exist. The scientific basis for the computer was still centuries away.
Today there is no scientific basis for paranormal phenomena. Yet we can witness it. Maybe not in a controlled lab as you're demanding.
But lets take the analogy further - suppose the 'skeptics' in the 5th century took that same computer to a 5th century lab and tried to make it work.
They couln't. There would be no electricity, they wouldn't know how to use a keyboard. It would not work because it would not make sense to them.
A computer will only work in the an environment that supports it. Similarly, paranormal phenomena might only manifest itself in a conducive environment.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#614073 - 04/20/02 06:29 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yet we can witness it.
Please tell me how. Three pages of stuff yet no information.
Maybe not in a controlled lab as you're demanding.
Lab? Where did I write that?
But lets take the analogy further
No, let's kill it right here. As shroomism stated, psychic phenomena is not analagous to machines.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#614263 - 04/21/02 12:41 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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*Yawn* Another dodge...
Not from me chappie, I havn't even read any of the rest of the thread!
Nah, computers don't prove anything, They just prove that in the reality we are aware of we can create things. It doesn't prove anything about the ultimate nature of that reality. We could still be thoughts in an aliens mind. You dig?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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JustFootsteps
newbie
Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 31
Loc: a hill
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#615266 - 04/22/02 04:48 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i can't give a straight answer, because i don't know what would qualify. i do know that i have, with women i've been very close with and then later at Rainbow gatherings, phish shows, and this last weekend in Amsterdam 'shared the stare' so many times, and confirmed it so many ways (verbally with what I call 'the Outloud version,' in body language, by sitting in different rooms), that I just don't give a crunk if you believe me or not. i wish you would, because it's pretty amazing to play around there, and i gather if we all lived in that rhythm for a while i think things would get interesting. did you miss the whole 'death of certainty,' 'logic is a parlor trick' thing that happened a hundred years ago? what in the world do you get out of taking psychs? not to be overly confrontational - it's just they never interested me until I noticed the Beat and weird weird weird wild stuff started happening... and i started to wonder if maybe there wasn't something uncanny and important going on...
'if you look carefully, you'll notice i'm saying something quite different out loud' - burroughs
well, it's a paraphrase, who am I, Joe Researchstuff?
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in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org
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