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 JPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible?  [Re: Swami]
#613274 - 04/19/02 08:48 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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As you predicted, of course. I doubt things would go otherwise. There are no answers here that have caused me to deeply question what I believe, and I can see that that is true for you too Swami. However, there have been interesting responses. I can see though that if they do not fit into your four categories of "appropriate responses" then they are worthless. As I suspected, you are not going to allow yourself to get anything out of this forum.
Sorry for the disappoinment here Swami.
By the way, I too am a skeptic and do not believe in paranormal psychic powers, however when I engage in this forum I try to suspend my judgements and preconceptions of other's responses in order to understand them on their own terms. But apparently the ignorance of the rest of us is distressing to you. I do not see why you keep posting here.
Peace...
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#613472 - 04/20/02 01:59 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can see though that if they do not fit into your four categories of "appropriate responses" then they are worthless.
They are not worthless, but are not "straight" answers; once again showing that it is impossible for a "believer" to give a straight answer."
If I ask, "How much is 1+1?" And you reply, "You would not believe me if I told you." or "You could not handle the answer."
Would you call those straight answers? Yes or No.
I do not see why you keep posting here.
Dissecting my motivation is a favorite side-step on this forum.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Insomniac
Stranger
Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613494 - 04/20/02 02:36 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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How is a fraudulent psychic distinguishable from an authentic one?
I honestly don't know. I also don't know if there are people that are actually able to do it, but for some reason I still think it's possible.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Insomniac]
#613520 - 04/20/02 03:34 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Possibility and actuality are completely distinct entities.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613536 - 04/20/02 04:14 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Who says that the powers of an authentic psychic may only be exhibited in the presence of believers?
The 'powers' of an authentic psychic are what exactly?
If someone wanted to go about proving the authenticity of a psychic, what criteria would need to be filled?
Keep in mind that a 'real' psychic can never be proven. In fact, nothing can be PROVEN! There are no truths. The correct answer is one that a set of circumstances has yet to prove it false. That is to say, 'its only true because we havent found an ocasion proving it not to be'.
Everyone thought that Newtonian Law was true because it hadnt been disproven, but along came Einstein giving us a set of circumstances that disprove it.
Without further dance-around, a fraudulent psychic would be proven to be so and therefore distiguishable from an authentic psychic, when he cannot replicate the effects that the authentic psychic can. If he cant do the same thing as the 'established' psychic, then he is different and therefore fraudulent.
So the real question here is, why do ppl believe in psychics (or anything) since they cant prove it?
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We have to answer our own prayers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613556 - 04/20/02 05:14 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hang on swami, what makes you think that "science" or "logic" is a valid way of looking at the universe? Are you really so sure that mankind has figured out everything there is to know in the last 400 years? Doesn't sound too likely to me. Sounds about as likely as the idea that we are all just thoughts in an aliens mind.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Xlea321]
#613661 - 04/20/02 08:54 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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*Yawn* Another dodge...
what makes you think that "science" or "logic" is a valid way of looking at the universe?
Nowhere in this entire thread did I use the words logic or science. More reading comprehension problems.
I will answer you self-evident question anyway:
Your computer, TV, radio, cell phone, car, refridgerator, microwave, medicine, etc; all give credence to the scientific approach.
Now let's list what the psychic approach has given to mankind: Nuttin' honey.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613879 - 04/20/02 01:32 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's not true Swami... my computer works on Psychic energies. Although it seems like it is made up of microchips and transistors and wires and connectors and more wires and gadgets..... it is not! All those devices are just a clever ruse... the gadgets and devices don't actually DO anything. The ethereal "psychic motor" (which can only be seen by believers) is what is responsible for the "software" output that corresponds to this and/or that keystroke. In a sense, I'm using magic by pressing down on these strange alien rune "stone" keys. The "computing" power is just a joke... all the computation is magic (ie. alien technology embedded in the "plastic" rune stones arranged in a holy pattern - the pattern is called QWERTY). QWERTY was an alien priest from 4 billion years ago. QWERTY came from K-JAX (not KPAX, the movie ripoff). QWERTY built the pyramids....
It is all about QWERTY.
Wildcat... wildcat... yeah, er... I gotta go.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#613930 - 04/20/02 02:55 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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"my computer works on Psychic energies...
QWERTY was an alien priest from 4 billion years ago. QWERTY came from K-JAX (not KPAX, the movie ripoff)."
LOL. good one
but seriously,
I agree that there is nothing mysterious about the computer - it is all based on solid scientific principles. But it all depends on your frame of reference. A man from the 5th century BC can very well see it as magic.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- I forgot who said this, it was either Carl Sagan or Arthur C. Clarke, or maybe Asimov?
But the point is that even if the man from the past was a strict adherent to logic such as yourself or Swami (I'm assuming that you are from your posts here), it would still appear to be magic to him.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#613943 - 04/20/02 03:08 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I forgot who said this, it was either Carl Sagan or Arthur C. Clarke, or maybe Asimov
It was Clark.
But the point is that even if the man from the past was a strict adherent to logic such as yourself or Swami (I'm assuming that you are from your posts here), it would still appear to be magic to him.
The point is that whether it appeared to him as magic or not, he would still be able to witness it in action unlike said psychic phenomema.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#614036 - 04/20/02 05:29 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wasn't relating to psychic phenomena specifically. I was saying that in 5th century there was no logical foundation for a computer to exist. The scientific basis for the computer was still centuries away.
Today there is no scientific basis for paranormal phenomena. Yet we can witness it. Maybe not in a controlled lab as you're demanding.
But lets take the analogy further - suppose the 'skeptics' in the 5th century took that same computer to a 5th century lab and tried to make it work.
They couln't. There would be no electricity, they wouldn't know how to use a keyboard. It would not work because it would not make sense to them.
A computer will only work in the an environment that supports it. Similarly, paranormal phenomena might only manifest itself in a conducive environment.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#614073 - 04/20/02 06:29 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yet we can witness it.
Please tell me how. Three pages of stuff yet no information.
Maybe not in a controlled lab as you're demanding.
Lab? Where did I write that?
But lets take the analogy further
No, let's kill it right here. As shroomism stated, psychic phenomena is not analagous to machines.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#614263 - 04/21/02 12:41 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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*Yawn* Another dodge...
Not from me chappie, I havn't even read any of the rest of the thread!
Nah, computers don't prove anything, They just prove that in the reality we are aware of we can create things. It doesn't prove anything about the ultimate nature of that reality. We could still be thoughts in an aliens mind. You dig?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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JustFootsteps
newbie
Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 31
Loc: a hill
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#615266 - 04/22/02 04:48 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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i can't give a straight answer, because i don't know what would qualify. i do know that i have, with women i've been very close with and then later at Rainbow gatherings, phish shows, and this last weekend in Amsterdam 'shared the stare' so many times, and confirmed it so many ways (verbally with what I call 'the Outloud version,' in body language, by sitting in different rooms), that I just don't give a crunk if you believe me or not. i wish you would, because it's pretty amazing to play around there, and i gather if we all lived in that rhythm for a while i think things would get interesting. did you miss the whole 'death of certainty,' 'logic is a parlor trick' thing that happened a hundred years ago? what in the world do you get out of taking psychs? not to be overly confrontational - it's just they never interested me until I noticed the Beat and weird weird weird wild stuff started happening... and i started to wonder if maybe there wasn't something uncanny and important going on...
'if you look carefully, you'll notice i'm saying something quite different out loud' - burroughs
well, it's a paraphrase, who am I, Joe Researchstuff? 
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in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org
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