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 raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible?  [Re: Swami]
#611850 - 04/18/02 11:18 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm just trying to discuss, sorry for doing this under your strict "answer only my question" thread.
pretty nice side-stepping of my questions too.
Edited by raytrace (04/18/02 11:18 AM)
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 Tannis
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611854 - 04/18/02 11:21 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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..........by their fruits you shall know them.......
How does the supposed psychic live, and what is their track record? Have they gained some respect and credibility with both believer and skeptic?
Still-----the deciding vote comes from the "receiver" and is two fold----the receiver must believe, and get the desired results.
Many "receivers" are not believers though........
Whenever I "sense" something (spirit, energy, etc.) it is something that I just "know". It is as real to me as the computer terminal I am typing on but is not real in the five physical senses.......there is something real beyond those senses. I don't understand it, and can't completely explain it, but it is a "knowing" so incrediblly real that it is beyond question.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611901 - 04/18/02 12:08 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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My post was based partially in sarcasm (as if you couldn't tell  ) My answer is that you cannot tell the difference between a true psychic and a phoney. Unless of course you find some way of becoming them. The fact is you can't trust anyone that comes up to you with a label that they are psychic. The only one that KNOWS psychics exist are the psychics. The rest of us can only postulate.
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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Swami
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#611907 - 04/18/02 12:16 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm just trying to discuss, sorry for doing this under your strict "answer only my question" thread.
Ok. I will forgive you this ONE time.
pretty nice side-stepping of my questions too.
Not even close to side-stepping. You expect me to answer for the motivation and failure of others?
were there people that had been successful and validated their psychic abilities before going for the randi competition, but they were unable to do so under these circumstances, because of a factor present in these tests?
Validated where? Randi actually allows the testee to design the test, but under strict controls.
I mean how do you explain people intentionally making fool of themselves?
Self delusion...?
were they deluding themselves? in which way?
In the way of thinking that they have special powers.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (04/18/02 03:48 PM)
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#611969 - 04/18/02 01:22 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I will forgive you this ONE time.
thank you i will not sin again
You expect me to answer for the motivation and failure of others?
as you expect my only input to this thread to be the answer to your question
In the way of thinking that they have speical powers.
i thought i'd get a more sophisticated answer but thanks anyway
Edited by raytrace (04/18/02 01:24 PM)
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Swami
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: raytrace]
#612081 - 04/18/02 03:54 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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as you expect my only input to this thread to be the answer to your question
Actually I expected exactly the types of responses that I got. Seems that not one "believer" in the several thousand here can give a direct, concise, educated answer.
i thought i'd get a more sophisticated answer but thanks anyway
*Hangs head in disgrace*
Well, you get what you pay for. Besides, I never intimated to anyone here that I was sophisticated.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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StrangeDays
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612280 - 04/18/02 07:56 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami,
I have not read the thread but I have a question for you anyways..
It's about living in the realm of relativity...
For the physical universe to exist, must not there be a non-physical Universe existing ?
If no, are you saying that there is no such thing as a non-physical Universe? So if no, the statement, "Only the physical universe exists" would be an absolute truth ?
Thankyou
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JPAtanat
member
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612364 - 04/18/02 09:18 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami, I feel like my answer was pretty straight-forward and understandable. If you are looking for someone to hand you the Truth on a silver platter, you are waiting in vain, my friend. If you want an answer, why would you take any of our words for it anyway? It seems clear to me you are not interested in doing that, so why don't you go out and figure it out for yourself?
Peace...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#612557 - 04/19/02 12:49 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think there are a lot of stigmas attached to "psychic powers" and other such mysticism that scientifically minded people have a hard time buying since it seems to be so subjective.
We have a hard time buying something that cannot be demonstrated.
But i would argue that people can possess psychic abilities, and they are natural, not supernatural.
You would?
It is the everyday mind of discursive thought that keeps most people from having it.
How do you know what keeps people from having it when no one can demonstrate it?
It is the rationalizing and the constant need for affirmation and proof that obscures our intuition and inherent wisdom.
There is no "constant" need. Demonstrate it once! The rationalizing is all done on the side of people making claims.
If you can silence your mind for long enough, then when you look at a person you can see that they are a complete expression unto themselves; that nothing is left unsaid in the present moment.
Thank you for pointing out my potential, but why don't you show me seeing as how you already possess this talent?
I might also mention that another reason for alot of skepticism is...
There is ONLY one reason for skepticism. The constant dodging and lack of a demonstration!
Swami, I feel like my answer was pretty straight-forward and understandable.
Good for you. Read it a half dozen times. Where is the part that tells one how to disitnguish an authentic from a phoney psychic which was my only question?
If you are looking for someone to hand you the Truth on a silver platter, you are waiting in vain, my friend.
Who asked for Truth?
If you want an answer, why would you take any of our words for it anyway?
Responding to a question with a question is as far away from a straight answer as one can get.
It seems clear to me you are not interested in doing that, so why don't you go out and figure it out for yourself?
I am interested, but so far there has been no answer to even consider. Responding to a question with a question is NO answer.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (04/19/02 03:12 PM)
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612611 - 04/19/02 03:19 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Disclaimer: I am not attempting to give a straight answer to your question.
I think that logic is a very powerful tool, but there are some things that exist beyond the realm of logic and evidence. For example, do you have a soul?
Can you demonstrate it? If not, it doesn't exist. Do you have free will?
According to your logic, If something can't be demonstrated, it must not exist.
Then, God is not real, we are soulless automatons, without free will. There is no spirituality, no afterlife, no ghosts, demons or aliens. There are no neutron stars, quasars, neutrinos, no black holes. (I've never seen one 'demonstrated'). In fact there can be no time, no evolution, and I can't even begin to prove that I exist, that it's an actual human being that has written this and not a figment of your imagination, creating these words as you're reading them.
This is a pretty bleak world you live in Swami.
I'm a bit of a skeptic myself, I'm always skeptical of anyone who claims to have 'special' powers but I keep an open mind. I think there is something to ESP and telepathy and I think that science will eventually prove it.
These believers are not trying to 'prove' anything, they simply believe. And if they believe, it's real to them regardless of what you or I think. It's a choice they make. And if you had the choice of living in a world of possiblities and a world of rigid logic, which would you choose?
Christianity (or any religion) might be all fake but the millions of people that have believed it has changed the world in tangible ways haven't they? It has changed lives. (for better or worse) So a belief in something that is not real has created something that is real. I don't have to prove that God exists, only that millions of people believe that he exists. Their belief makes him real.
Things are not as static as your logic suggests. Psychic phenomona isn't something that either is or isn't. It is something that can become real if our minds are willing. Maybe we're still evolving and we're only seeing a glimpse of what is to come. The only thing stopping us is our own self-imposed limitations.
You might not believe in psychics but do you at least believe that human beings
have a spiritual dimension?>
Do human beings have souls?>
Don't let your 'blind faith' in logic blind you to the possibilies of the human mind.
Peace.
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Anonymous
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: infidelGOD]
#612617 - 04/19/02 03:36 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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nice post...
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612653 - 04/19/02 04:44 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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you can tell by their eyes !
Edited by raytrace (04/19/02 04:45 AM)
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JPAtanat
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612909 - 04/19/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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"You would?" Swami
Yes I would, that is why I wrote it. If you read my entry with an open mind you might understand why I said that but appears to me that you simply went through sentence by sentence disclaiming everything I said. Congratulations.....
"There is no "constant" need. Demonstrate it once! " Swami
The constant need of which I spoke was in reference not specifically to this issue but to the general menatlity of most people nowadays that their experience must be validated for it to be real, yet how can experience not be real. I understand that you question whether poeples experience is genuine. I personally have not experienced telepathy, but I have heard tibetan lamas and other yogis and meditation adepts are able, and I believe that.
Skepticism is good and necessary, Swami, but not when it is attached to rigid unaccepting thought rooted in a preconceived idea. You are clearly predisposed to a disbelief in telepathy (and apparently many other things), because of this even if there was enough "evidence" or "proof" or whatever it is you are looking for, you would find a way to discredit it. infidel made good points in his message on this.
I do not know what you are asking for when you say "straight answer" but more importantly I don't think you do either. Plenty of interesting responses have been supplied, many stating valid opinions, yet you have not once said, thats interesting, or anything positive or indicating that you actually understood the messages thoroughly. Yes opinions, as I said, if you are looking for Truth, you will not find it in this forum. You can only find that within yourself, but as it is you seem to be to busy forcing all experience through your gauntlet of rational thinking leaving everything twisted and ultimately everything you do not already accept impossible.
I imagine you might reply to this message, sentence by sentence once again, pointing out to me every place I have flawed logic. Oh well. It seems so unfortunate to me that such a seemingly intelligent and eloquent person such as yourself should be so closed-minded and hell-bent on the ever-elusive, never-satisfactory "proof." I hope that if not Swami, then maybe others reading this will really understand what the hell I am trying to say.
Peace
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Swami
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: JPAtanat]
#612945 - 04/19/02 01:43 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami this and Swami that - attitude, skepticism, etc. blah, blah, blah...
Two pages of replies and not ONE answer. Seems most people here have a severe reading disorder.
There was only ONE question posited at the beginning:
How is a fraudulent psychic distinguishable from an authentic one?
What part of any of your posts is an answer?
There are four appropriate answers:
A. NO response.
B. "I don't know."
C. "It is impossible to tell them apart."
D. "Here is methodology for how one can tell..."
This is not about me controlling the thread, but about the fact that every response is a dodge as predicted.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612954 - 04/19/02 02:02 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been waiting for a straight answer myself. I WANT TO BELIEVE. But all I ever read or hear from others are rationalizations, attempts to redirect honest inquiry, circular reasoning, meaningless new age double speak or amateur psychoanalysis of those who are labeled 'skeptics' instead of actually addressing the issue of validating the assertions made.
I'll give you my answer, Swami. I don't know, and as long as believers lack the strength of their convictions to subject their beliefs to validation I will never know.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: ]
#612962 - 04/19/02 02:10 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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*Falls to his knees* Hallelujah! An actual response.
Thanks evolving.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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HunabKu
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#612973 - 04/19/02 02:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's like schroedinger's cat. It's both alive and dead until you observe it. If you never look in the box, you never know how the cat is. If you're not there the fraud and the true visionary are indistinguishable. McKenna said the technique is to dissolve boundaries. Then you realize that you are in fact both the faker and the truth.
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Sclorch
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Registered: 07/12/99
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: HunabKu]
#613123 - 04/19/02 05:37 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just when you thought the bs ran out.... hehe
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Sclorch]
#613128 - 04/19/02 05:45 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Truth is fleeting, but BS is forever...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Is a straight answer possible? [Re: Swami]
#613131 - 04/19/02 05:50 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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LOL
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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