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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation > Mushroom Cultivation Archive > Substrates
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #614236 -

so... if one was to try this with a 96qt sterilite tub with the lid on, and fanned 2 times daily... it stands a chance of working? tubs are about 15 inches high, foot and a half wide and 3 feet long or so. a freind has grown cubies pf style in a 58qt tub with the exact same lid and has got great results. he used 2 inches of perlite. i figure the shit wil humidify itself mostly, and spraying the sides shoud help. what do you think?


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Ares Industries Cacti Seeds And Gourmet Mushroom Patches

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #614984 -

Hmm, most likely when the pots of water were poured in the tub, they were around 160-170, I had checked with a temp gauge. It should be pretty good probablity that there is no threat of bacterial bloom.

My friend doesn?t want to risk exposing the substrate by opening up and looking to see for bacterial contamination so he just says cross ya fingers...

But I have a cam to take shots of the reults, in about one week I?ll post the bins and the colonization shots. I?ll private message you to let you know about the post though. Thanks for the info on the possible problems Mycofile! You rock!

Whenever you have time Mycofile, check out my first post on the pictures sections, you can see how funny that is compared to the results of every post after that (in the pictures section i mean). I believe my foaf does very well for someone who just started September of last year.



--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #615382 -

nice
may i ask how much was total dry weight after all flushes?
thanks

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #615386 -

> It should be pretty good probablity that there is no threat of bacterial bloom.

Hmmm... insta-expert, just add water. (sorry, couldn?t resist the poke)

> My friend doesn?t want to risk exposing the substrate by opening up and looking to see for bacterial contamination

If you have bacterial bloom, you probably wont notice it until it starts to eat the fruitbodies. Not a bad idea to leave the substrate container closed however.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #617726 -

amazing man.. this is a GREAT post full of useful information... I can?t beleive it fruited so well in such unsteril conditions... thanks for the great post.


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and Viola! Mushrooms!

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #618061 -

Mycofile, I respect your methods and attitudes on cultivation greatly.

I am confused on the preparation of the bird seed.

For clarity for others you said:

"The grain is strained, rinsed and dried thoroughly before being loaded into the quart jar, ? full...When cool, the quart is injected with 12 cc?s peroxide, shaken and inoculated in front of a flow hood with a piece of the peroxidated agar."

I am understanding that you hydrated 1/2 qt birdseed w/ 12 cc?s peroxide. This does not seem to be sufficient for moisture levels.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: Joshua]
    #618069 -

The grain is first simmered, then strained and "surface" dried.
So the inside of the grain is moist.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: Joshua]
    #619500 -

Oh yeah, that is a little confusing, huh?
Anno?s right. The grain is simmered for 30 minutes which hydrates it, put in a strainer/collander type thing, rinsed with cold water to rinse off any bird kote or crap from exploded grains, then allowed to drip dry in the strainer for a few minutes. At this point it is hydrated enough to be pressure cooked, but not so moist that the peroxide will be too much added moisture after pressure cooking. Hope that clarifies it for you.


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"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #623631 -

I am currently starting up some experiments using this method and PC Equadors...I?ll post my final results with pictures later on.


Ok, a few questions myco...

I decided not to use g2g and plan on innoculating the dung/straw with two 1 quart jars fully colonized with PC Equador. I also plan on doing a BRF/Verm grinding and using that also. Will this be enough? If possible, would you mind giving some insight into the best way to grind up a cake without contaminating it?

A question about pastuerising...If I leave the dung/straw in the can even after the temps have started dropping down...say overnight...do I risk problems with contam? (ie have I just put myself back to the beginning by leaving it overnight in the cool water?)

About casing: I know that I can case even without full colonization, is there a reason to let it colonize first then case?

With your colonization step...you said that you draped a black plastic sheet over the boxes and that it was perforated...how many perforations and what size holes? I assume something like poking holes with a pencil through a plastic sheet periodically throughout the sheet will suffice.

A question about the meaning of hydrating to field capacity...I assume that this means to the max point without water actually seeping out. (moist?)

With the fruiting steps: I have heard that approx. 12 hours of light is optimal for frowth, yet your method clearly shows that it is not nesscesary for good shroom growth...what do you think about leaving the cover off for longer to expose for more light?

Also, with misting, how moist should the shrooms get before you allow them to soak the water up? Visible moisture droplets too much?

When harvesting the fruits...approx how often did you have to worry about seaching for abhorts which needed to be removed?

Last thing...about pH how important do you think it is to adjust and does it change much with different strains? Thanks for your help.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #624654 -

mycofile

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #624955 -

Myco how do dry out that much? It seems like that would be hard.


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-SumGuy :cool:

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: SumGuy]
    #625137 -

Dry what? The manure/straw?

If tahts what your talking about, yes, I would like to know as well I guess your not drying it, just making it not as wet persay?

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: SumGuy]
    #625175 -

i think u mean dry out the fruits? hang them by string and fan dry em in a closet. just like branches of cronic would be dried

my bulk spawn neglect method has not yet worked. im still waiting for signs of colonization of the spawn. one piece of good advice, dont jump the gun. if your still working on cakes and small casings with brown rice flour and vermiculite, try a small measure of dung and straw. i think by trying the biggest possible tek, i made too many opportunities of big failures. wish me luck.


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #625260 -

if there is anyone out there that has experienced failure with spawning cowmanure/straw please reply? specifically im referring to the part when you check up on the manure/straw after a week of adding the substrate (colonized grains) to the dung/straw, and there is no signs of colonization...

the conditions that i speak of are: brown rice flour + vermiculite colonized ecuador strain (clone .... not multispore) spawned on to 25% cattle dung 75% wheat straw. The wheat straw and dung mix was pasturized at 160deg F for 45 minutes. So far it has been one week after spawning and there is what seems no colonization of the ecuador mycelium on the dung/straw. (from the view of the surface). It seems that the little crumbles of substrate did puff up with more mycelium, but didn?t "spawn" on to the dung.

I have a couple of guesses as to why this had happened. The pH of the dung. the dung was not fully composted (seemed a bit smelly. not too smelly. but a little) . the pasturization was not fully completed. But if anyone knows what my problem may be, or has experience the same problem, please....please! help me!.


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.

Edited by mrdasani (05/03/02 02:18 AM)

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #625508 -

sounds like bacteria ... especially if it smells funny


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-SumGuy :cool:

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #625537 -

I have seen a friend with the exact problem. . .it could be bacterial, or ?lack of? bacterial; Poor quality worm castings will do the same thing. One way or the other, you need to adjust the substrate [pH, moisture, pasteurization tek] or find something else entirely. Once he tried some dried out cow pies he found up in the mountains and never went back! If the sub is good, colonization should spring off very quickly. If bacteria/pH are too much askew, even the grains themselves won?t recover after spawning.
The best thing to do is play around with different sources, find something that works and stick with it.

Something that I think was a bit underemphasized [maybe?] in the responses to this success is the level of the casing relative to its container. Many large rubbermaid casings will fail primarily because the casing is sitting deep within a chamber [often airtight]. This favors CO2 stratification, usually requires some kind of manual work. The tray above, even when ?bagged?, is not within a well of plastic like in a typical rubbermaid system. Mycofile mentioned this, but it seems like a major physical difference from other systems and worth mentioning again.
Very nice and inspirational regardless!

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: Suntzu]
    #626042 -

hmm, i think i got some new alterations and modifications that may help improve the chance of my sucess.

1) Replace thick rubermaid bins with just simple cardboard box with a plasic trash bag wrapped around it, as shown in the picture.

2) test out small ammounts of dung/straw to see if the pH and bacterial level is correct. then move on to bigger ammounts.

mycofile, about the second modification, i wanted to know if you took any pre-steps to make sure the dung/straw would work. like such as checking the pH or making a small (very small) ammount your first time. I am guess that I should just get about 2 pints worth of dung and try that ammount to see if spawning will work like that next time.

Thanks SumGuy and Suntzu for your help !

I am thinking about what to do about finding out how to make sure i find dung with proper bacteria (or whatever necessary) in it.

Oh I hope this isn?t important , but I think the dung I shoveled up are from cattle, ....that is the same as cow right? Or is there a big difference?


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: SumGuy]
    #626064 -

I am posting this on behalf of Mycofile:

From: mycofile
Received: 03/19/02 05:18 PM
In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A couple of weeks ago I asked about your drying tek after I saw some of your beauties. You told me about a double screen set-up using desicant. I am interested in this, could you elaborate, specifically on the use of the desicant? I have used it before, it turns to mush. Is that what you experienced?

Joshua



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Not sure about the post you?re referencing, but I?d be glad to discuss drying. Dessicant does turn mushy, or more correctly dissolves as it absorbs water. If the dessicant is on a screen, the water (and some dissolved dessicant) drips away from the dessicant which maintains the life of the dessicant as well as the efficiency of the dessicant (a puddle with dessicant floating in it doesn?t dry much). The desolved dessicant is a nasty solution, impossible almost to clean if spilled. Dispose of it carefully.

Rig it up however you wish, and to the scale you desire. Basically you need a screen with dessicant on it over or in something (but raised above the bottom) that can collect the solution in the bottom. Damp rid, driveway heat, or a lab dessicant such as drieright all work well. Multiple layers of screen above the dessicant hold the fresh fruits. Use something (spacers, cheap open grid shelving etc) to keep the layers from touching. ShrooMart stores have cheap 3 level shelves for shoes or such that work alright. Or just use some 1X2 (depending on how bit you let your caps open you may need 1X4 or bigger) lumber and build square/rectangular frames to which you staple the screens. Not only does this keep the dessicant from touching the shrooms, but keeps the shrooms spaced apart for better airflow. If this is all in a large rubbermaid, make sure it?s airtight. If it?s a cheap shelf system or freestanding wooden structure, use large trash bags and twist ties to keep everything sealed AIR TIGHT.

Generally, for X area of dessicant you can dry several X area layers of fruits.

For more than a couple layers of fruit, or for faster more efficient drying, add a small fan to the dessicant chamber. Computer fans work great, and can be rigged if DC, or used esily if they are AC. The addition of the fan is essential for drying large amounts of fruit, or in situations where the surface area of the dessicant isn?t as great as the layer(s) of fruits. Placement of fan not essential. Try to maximize air flow over fruits, but it?s not that important, just get air circulating inside there.

So, from bottom to top: Collection of solution area (rigging a drain of sorts might be called for depending), screen with dessicant, some air space, screen for fruits, some air space, screen for fruits, repeat as needed. A fan anywhere that it won?t get wet is optional but highly recomended. Keep it all sealed air tight, resisting the urge to check as much as possible. Just let it sit for a few days unless you need to add more fruits.

Some people are lucky and live in areas of low humidity where they can open air fan dry. That doesn?t work too well if you happen to have 95% ambient humidity the entire week after a flush. This info is for those people. Not the ones who always jump in a thread and say-"I just put them between some paper towels and they?re dry in a day!"

Any questions? How about posting this in whatever thread we were originally in if you can find it so that others may join. I love PM?s, but I like public discussion better. Thanks.


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #629074 -

Myco, Thanks for taking the voodoo out of bulk growing. I?ve used similiar techniques as yours for a while. Instead of the single sheet of black plastic I use one layer of opaque plastic covered with another layer of the black. Once pinning begins the black is removed and the opaque allows light to enter during the day (I?m not restricted to a bedroom closet for my grow area). I have also only used good old and simple rye grain for my innoculant. Always seemed the neatest and easiest to work with. If I were to advise anyone about mushroom growing(or anything else for that matter) is be very clean, meticulous, precise and gentle in the beginning and then let nature take it?s course.

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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #631073 -

Great Job!!! Shrooms are pretty with not much effort. Mycofile - will you be writing a step by step tek for the Shroomeries grow cubensis section?

Happy Shroomen & Enjoy


--------------------
ShroomChicks WANTED!!!
Preferably 18 to 21 years old.
Brunett & AVERAGE weight(I Stress)!!!
Please PM me with a current PIC!
Yours truly Mr. Angel- AKA. MOJO MAN
***FEMALES ONLY***

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation > Mushroom Cultivation Archive > Substrates
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