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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
Shaman I am

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 3,125
Loc: Falling into place
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #610781 - 04/17/02 08:09 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I should have worded my question differently, try again:

How would you compare the potency of these large shrooms, to lets say the potency of shrooms grown in smaller scale tek.
For instance: 5 grams of these monsters compared with 5 grams of shrooms grown on a 12" bread pan casing.

Hope it makes sense!!

Cooooooooool



--------------------





"We are the one's we have been waiting for" - Hopi saying


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #610987 - 04/17/02 11:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

where did you get your dung?



Gathered from the field. Anything that is old enough that it doesn?t stink works fine. Every farmer I have ever approached has been friendly and more than happy to let me gather some as long as I promised not to let his cows out or to hurt them. (seriously, how is a skinny little man like myself going to hurt a 12 million pound beast on her home turf?) Apparantly they get many very similar requests from gardners every spring, so I just tell them it?s for my garden, or my compost pile if it?s not the beginning of the spring or fall gardening seasons. Only been turned down once, and that was because the farmer used them in his own garden.
In reply to:

How would you compare the potency of these large shrooms, to lets say the potency of shrooms grown in smaller scale tek. For instance: 5 grams of these monsters compared with 5 grams of shrooms grown on a 12" bread pan casing.



Your question was worded fine, I understood. Perhaps I should have worded my answer differently. To put it very simply, they are of the exact same potency, at least as accurately as a bio-assay can be. To complicate the answer a little more, make sure you account for things that do affect potency (flush number, isolated strain, fruit maturity etc) to make sure you aren?t comparing apples to oranges.
For instance, 5 grams of those mature monsters in the last two pix would compare very equally to 5 grams of fruits of similar maturity from a 12" bread pan, or even a PF cake for that matter. The same would go for fruits with the veil about to break, or for aborts for that matter, as long as what you are comparing them to is fruit of a similar maturity. On the other hand, one of those 5 gram fruits in the last two pictures wouldn?t hold a candle to 5 grams of aborts, regardless of substrate or grow method.
Which reminds me, reported yields don?t include aborts. I?ll check the notes to include in the final write up, but I know the first tray produced at least an ounce of aborts. Now talk about a special evening! The trays in the 2 tray picture produced many many many more aborts due to the over-prolific pin set, which of course I ate exclusively for a couple months!

I do hope all this helps, and I encourage any further questions. The questions remind me of things I left out or need to clarify when I make a final write up, not to mention answer questions other readers may not have even thought to ask.
peaces


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemrdasani
enthusiast
Registered: 10/20/01
Posts: 224
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #611252 - 04/18/02 04:58 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Mycofile. Was the box of substrate left inside while colonizing?

I don?t want to leave a box of dung indoors because of the smell. What did you do to take care of that problem?

The problem if I leave it outside, the colonizing time will take atleast 2 times as long because of the lower temperature at night. Is this true?


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.


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OfflineChemical_Smile
Making Love WithMy Ego
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 2,217
Loc: coming down fast, miles a...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #611318 - 04/18/02 06:45 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

If you use older dung just the plastic cover would probably be enough to keep you from smelling it. I have a 50lb bag of cow shit sitting open in my room and I cant smell it. The only problem is that a big box full of shit sitting in the corner is a turnoff to some girls.


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Anonymous

Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #611385 - 04/18/02 07:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

GREAT WRITE-UP Mycofile!!!!!!!!!



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OfflineFrankenstein
newbie

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: ]
    #611668 - 04/18/02 02:48 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Very inspiring! Absolutely amazing!

So did you dunk that after the first flush? lol


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Invisiblemycofile
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Posts: 2,336
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: Frankenstein]
    #611810 - 04/18/02 07:30 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Mycofile. Was the box of substrate left inside while colonizing?



Yes it was inside.
In reply to:

I don?t want to leave a box of dung indoors because of the smell. What did you do to take care of that problem?



For the life of me I don?t know why this keeps coming up. Dung doesn?t stink. IMO it smells better than wet straw, it?s much more fresh smelling, more earthy. Straw smells like stinky collards. Dung only stinks if it was A) gathered when it was fresh and stinky or B) contaminated with bacteria. Anything contaminated with bacteria stinks, and it?s easy to not gather stinky shit, although the farmer will look at you a little funny, or passing cars for that matter. "Hey hunnie, look at that stupid hippie in the cow field, OH MY GOD! He?s sniffing SHIT!!!"
In reply to:

The problem if I leave it outside, the colonizing time will take atleast 2 times as long because of the lower temperature at night. Is this true?



I have no idea if it?s true, it depends on your area. I would imagine that if you spawn it heavily, colonization time won?t be an issue. But if you are going to colonize it outside, why not just grow outside? Those boxes were planted outside for additional fruits after they were thrown out.
In reply to:

The only problem is that a big box full of shit sitting in the corner is a turnoff to some girls.



Only if they know what it is. Once the cow pies are crumbled, nobody will know it?s shit. I?ve repeatedly handed someone a bag of crumbled cow shit (crumbled so they wouldn?t recognize what it was) and said, "does this smell funny to you?", they always say, "no it smells like dirt, what is it?" I say "it?s dirt, I just thought it smelled funky, guess I was wrong". Nobody ever knows they stuck their face in a bag of shit. When I had a roomate, he would run out the door laughing his ass off everytime I would do that to someone...
In reply to:

So did you dunk that after the first flush?



LOL!


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 805
Loc: Dade County
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #611949 - 04/18/02 09:55 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

how feasible would this grow log/tek be w/o the use of a flow hood?


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OfflinePrimorda
newbie
Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #611998 - 04/18/02 10:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

mycofile is correct about the dung smell. It?s just like wet fertile soil.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 7,264
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #612074 - 04/19/02 12:32 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)


Mycofile, your write up was great. Very easy to read, and is worded great. Inspires me to try something like that.

Ive seen pictures of people just using the sterilte containers just as a big tray, and using the lids to keep in the humidity. I guess its the same thing, just making your own box lined with plastic. I really like your idea.

Sorry about more questions...

1)How did you drain the straw/dung mix from the trashcan, without letting any of the substrate out? Just leave the lid on, and then invert? Sorry if thats a stupid question, but I dont understand how you drain it

2)Is there any concern about contaminating the dung/straw while transfering it and before you case it?

Thanks for this great post and informational teaching


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Invisiblesloluva
....

Registered: 12/26/01
Posts: 2,752
Loc: Ohio
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #612418 - 04/19/02 07:18 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder how many times this post has been printed out....

Twice for me... (Thor, once or twice for you?)


Peas all,

Slo



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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: angryshroom]
    #612754 - 04/19/02 05:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Sorry about more questions...



As I?ve said above, Please ask more questions. The more questions asked, the more informative the post becomes.
In reply to:

How did you drain the straw/dung mix from the trashcan, without letting any of the substrate out? Just leave the lid on, and then invert?



Acutally I left that part a little vague on purpose. The "trash can" that I used was really more like a barrel, which tapered a little at the top. I had a square piece of plywood which would fit in the top, but when twisted slightly it mostly closed off the top. That combined with the fact that on top of the dung/straw was the pillow case of dung which acts as a type of restraining screen prevented loss of any substrate. Now, I know that isn?t going to apply to almost anyone out there, so I leave it up to you as to how you do it. You can put everything in laundy bags, just wrap it up in an old sheet, rig some cloth over the can etc. One of the most beautiful things of DIY is it?s always unique.
In reply to:

Is there any concern about contaminating the dung/straw while transfering it and before you case it?



No, not other than common sense. If you drop some straw in your cats litter box, leave it there, don?t try and use it. Don?t use emery cloth to slough off dead skin cells from your elbow into the substrate etc. Properly pasteurized straw and/or dung are selective enough that you have at least a week before anything other than mycelium will be able to attack them. And after that, even if you aren?t 100% colonized, the colonization you do have will be excreting enough antibiotics and such to protect you untill it?s ready.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Posts: 2,336
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #612759 - 04/19/02 05:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah,
In reply to:

how feasible would this grow log/tek be w/o the use of a flow hood?



Very feasible. I had one, so I used it. Glove boxes, oven tek etc are good enough. I know plenty of people w/out flow hoods who use agar, grains and grain to grain transfers all the time. The addition of the peroxide makes it even more likely that you can be successful w/out the hood. If you can get grain spawn without a hood, then you can do this without one for sure. And you don?t necessarily have to do a G2G transfer, you could just use a box of quart jars or whatever.

I?ve actually done every step above (cloning w/ peroxide agar, peroxide grain, peroxide G2G transfer) without an oven, glovebox or hood. But if you?ve got one or want one, use it.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemrdasani
enthusiast
Registered: 10/20/01
Posts: 224
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #612899 - 04/19/02 09:33 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Mycofile,

This is what my friend?s cousin?s friend has prepared as a mockup of your tek:

He gots two tupperware containers, straw and steer manure.
Mixed the steer manure and straw. Pasturized with boiling water.

I?ll obmit from explaining the details. But this guys main concerns are:

1) He was impatient and just bought a store brand "Steer Manure - "Well-aged compost of steer manure". He was wondering if this would pose as a problem as being a substitute for authentic cow dung or horse dung. Will it take longer? Could there be less fruits?

2) He wants to know if there needs to be any fanning or air exchange during the 1-2 weeks of colonizing of spawn to bulk substrate?

3) Should the casing be put on right after the colonized substrate is mixed with the bulk substrate? Or should the casing be put after the manure looks partially colonized on the top? Or (as according to time - this is what hes planning on doing for now) should it be cased afer 2 weeks of being spawned?

Mycofile, there are two main problems and differences from yours and my friend?s friend:

1) The manure type,[it may take longer?]
2) The colonized spawn is a multispore innoculation type. [Will is lead to a smaller ammount yield? Or same weighted yield but abnormal sized fruits?]

Mycofile, thanks for the help!


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.


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Invisiblefeito
hillbillyhippykiller

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 75
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #612906 - 04/19/02 09:41 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

mycofile, this might help...
BEER KEGS! These make GREAT big kettles for past. bulk subs....dung/straw.
The top is sawed off. Let off the pressure, drill a hole in it, and get out the plasma cutter or the sawzall!! MAN!! those kegs ring like a high pitched bell when you cut the steel!
Then weld/have one welded for you- a ball valve at the side, towards the bottom. This is your drain.
A HD wire mesh screen or "perf plate" can be propped slightly above the valve to aid in straining the stuff.....
And of course get a KING KOOKER propane burner to fire the fucker....
Sporeworks has em....
These units can be bought premade at homebrew supply stores, as a "mash tun" for beer making..
they are free if you make em, maybe 250 bucks if you buy one.
Just a tip..


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Invisiblemycofile
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Loc: Uranus
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #613006 - 04/19/02 11:59 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

1) The manure type,[it may take longer?]



Personally, I never had success with store bought manures. I know others have. Worst case scenario, the manure is worthless. Even at that, no harm, the mycleium will colonize it just like a casing material, even if it?s mixed in with the straw. I just wouldn?t make the top layer very deep. Just deep enough to keep the stray straws down.
In reply to:

The colonized spawn is a multispore innoculation type.



Not a problem. I do feel that isolated strains yield better, assuming that you have a good isolated strain. A low yielding strain could be isolated which actually yields less than a healthy multispore. Irregular pin set, and fruit maturation will be more noticable though. Again not a problem, you should still get fruits.
A few comments that weren?t asked as questions:
In reply to:

tupperware containers



That isn?t very specific, but if the sides of the tupperwares are much higher than the casing level, then you could have a few problems with co2. In the boxes above, the casing layer was only an inch or so below the sides, allowing co2 to spill over the side. In a 12" + deep tupperware, much more co2 will build up. Also, surface area could be important here, I don?t know. If they are small rubbermaids, you may have drying out issues that didn?t come up with the larger masses of substrate and casing. I don?t know though, let us know.
In reply to:

Pasturized with boiling water



Hope you didn?t mean that. Pastuerization temperatures are well below boiling. Boiling can lead to many troubles, including but not limited to bacterial bloom. Any pasteurization method should have covered that.

And about the beer kegs, sounds great. But the point of the water heater pasteurization as described above is that A) it?s easy and B) it doesn?t require the king cooker or anything else. Beer kegs do sound like they?d be a great thing for others to play with, but they seem complicated. A metal trash can is only $15, it leaks, but can be sealed, and a drain could easily be installed in the bottom. It wouldn?t be great for traditional pasteurizing, but would work perfectly for the apartment dweller to stick in his bath tub for a hot water heater supplied pasteurization. Then again, I imagine some people have a couple old kegs they?ve been looking for something to do with...


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemrdasani
enthusiast
Registered: 10/20/01
Posts: 224
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #613019 - 04/20/02 12:14 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

About the boiling situation, my friends friend just poured some below boiling point water over the straw and manure which was damp and half way filled with luke warm water. This should?ve brought down the temperature of the very hot water to about 160 degrees. His concern at the time may have been that the temp was lower than it should?ve been.

I don?t completely understand the bacterial bloom caused by very hot water. It just doesn?t seem to make any sense, wouldn?t bacterial die off from hot temperatures?

And if this was a possibilty, does the exposure to the hot water have to be for a certain duration of time? I believe the substrate was only very hot for about 5 minutes. Is this long enough to cause some critical error?

I am starting to doubt that my friend?s friend is going to be sucessful at his first attempt.


--------------------
"Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!" - Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here 1975)

"Never underestimate the power of denial." -from American Beauty.


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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #613133 - 04/20/02 02:51 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I don?t completely understand the bacterial bloom caused by very hot water. It just doesn?t seem to make any sense, wouldn?t bacterial die off from hot temperatures?
--
no. Bacteria are a hell of alot more resilient than one would think. Many actually prefer extreme temperatures.. the polar ice caps, undersea volcano caps, etc. Where there is a will, there is a way. They have enough will for all of us. Tough little bastards they are..

good luck! (not in the bad sense, in the good sense)


--------------------
If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mycofile]
    #613205 - 04/20/02 04:15 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Bulk Neglect Report [Re: mrdasani]
    #614139 - 04/21/02 05:42 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

mrdasani,
I don?t know where your friend got his ideas from, but I think he?s in trouble. Anything he read on pasteurization should have made it clear that the desired temps are about 160-170 deg F. Hotter is not better, and is bad. Higher temps don?t effectively kill bacteria until you get up to about 250. And you need to keep the substrate at these temps (160-170) for anywhere from 30 minutes to a week, depending on circumstances. For home mycology, 30 minutes seems to be sufficient, but many prefer to pasteurize for up to an hour. 5 minutes is likely to have done little to pasteurize the substrate. Sorry. Try again, you?ll get it.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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