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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Buying gold * 1
    #6085835 - 09/21/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I figure money and mutual fonds and all that is pretty shadey with such an uncertain future. I heard on the radio gold could possibly go up to 1000 an ounce. Right now its at 600 or so dollars. You can buy one once coins of gold. Then you actually have the bonefied backing no papper dollar that they can print out by the pallet.

think its a good idea, hording a pile of gold? Maybe burry it in the back yard in a cool little chest.

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6085841 - 09/21/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i bought a little bit of gold when it was low (300/oz)

got a krugerand and a bullion bar

whats gold at now anyway?

im torn between investing more money into it, now thats is sort of higher priced.....but if the US dollar ever nosedives, some gold would be a saving grace, for sure.........


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--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6085845 - 09/21/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

oops...just reread your post...

is it really up to 600?!


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--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6085850 - 09/21/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

well damn! :laugh:




--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6085852 - 09/21/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah its seriously up to 6+ a few months ago it was 5. But they see it going up to almost 1000 possibly.

i wasn't thinking of it till now, but i remeber a while ago it was at 3. Wish i got it at that price because i could have flipped my stack real fast.

Whats a good web site to find out more info on this? I would like to see a timeline of the price per oz.

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6085859 - 09/21/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

kitco or monex


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--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6085861 - 09/21/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Schwip said:
well damn! :laugh:







:sun:

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Offlinekindadank
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086168 - 09/21/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You could always buy egold...probably be easier.

http://www.e-gold.com/

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: kindadank] * 1
    #6086173 - 09/21/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i want the gold in me pocket though

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086439 - 09/21/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i would have to say that at this time i wouldnt bet gold to be a good investment.

I used to follow its price about a year or 2 ago, when it was un the $300's, and often used to say "hmmmm a oz of weed or an oz of gold) as they were roughly the same price.

but having seen it shoot up in price that quickly (mostly in regards to some economic rules put out by china) i really cant see it being anything stable, especially beacuse since it hit that high it hasnt done anything spectatular.

also i have seen buy gold now opportunites on the internet, and on late night tv, which also leads me to think that it not a good investment at this time.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086442 - 09/21/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

coins are the way to go...

you got bullion value on top of numismatic value then :smile:


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6086467 - 09/21/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Schwip said:
coins are the way to go...

you got bullion value on top of numismatic value then :smile:




whats bullion and numismatic value mean if you wouldn't mind expaining?



Zippoz yeah i know.  If it goes down to 400 or so i would think about it more.

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Invisibleelsig
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6086490 - 09/21/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I collect gold, have done so for nearly 15 years. I collect anything that is gold and get it melted into small goldbars, mostly jewlery and stuff. Its a hobby I really enjoy and I have yet to sell one gram of gold. sometimes i have cannabis or some other things people want and I trade for anything in gold. my colection is worth quite a bit, not sure how much, i dont follow the gold prices.

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Invisiblerod
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086505 - 09/21/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You would be better off in the long run, to invest spare cash,
either in a 401K, or a Roth Ira. as long as you have earned something, you can open a Roth, Gold investing is for 2 types
of people
1. speculators
2. people who think, something bad is going to happen, and
the USA dollar will be worthless, that probably won,t happen
in our lifetime..
IMO

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Buying gold [Re: rod] * 1
    #6086525 - 09/21/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if youre going get into speculation, i have 2 words for you Raw Land :smile:


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #6086544 - 09/21/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

collect gold as in go out panning and such? or do you mean already proccesed gold?

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #6086548 - 09/21/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I collect gold, have done so for nearly 15 years. I collect anything that is gold and get it melted into small goldbars, mostly jewlery and stuff.





If we catch you, do we get three wishes? :wink:

Congratulations Schwip!! 300 --> 600


The best gold in the world (99.999% pure I believe) is made by the Canadian Mint who sell it as all sorts of coins, even coins with a psychedelic hologram effect stamped into the gold

Remember that gold can CORRODE if stored improperly.
Platinum is best, but you might look into diamonds as well :sun:

If things get rough (lets say the USA gets totalitarian and nonconformist citizens have to flee the country, a diamond can be turned into a pea-sized package which you swallow, fly around the world and poop out a few thousand dollars :smirk:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (09/21/06 01:18 PM)

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: rod] * 1
    #6086573 - 09/21/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rod said:
You would be better off in the long run, to invest spare cash,
either in a 401K, or a Roth Ira. as long as you have earned something, you can open a Roth, Gold investing is for 2 types
of people
1. speculators
2. people who think, something bad is going to happen, and
the USA dollar will be worthless, that probably won,t happen
in our lifetime..
IMO




Who is to say something won't happen. unless we clean up our act, shit will hit the fan. our president has no ethical motives other then his own. he is breaking international laws of the geneva convention type. He is trying to get another war started before november. When will the world say enough is enough?

Mutual funds are good, but its dependent on things with variables that can make or break you. You have to trust in people and the economical stuff.

We keep printing out cash and our doller is getting to be wurth less n less.

Land is a good option as long as you can afford to keep it.

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Invisibleelsig
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6086587 - 09/21/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

lol, yes you get 3 wishes , catch me if you can, im on the other end of the rainbow

and i ment allready processed gold

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086607 - 09/21/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

We keep printing out cash and our doller is getting to be wurth less n less.




The dollar isn't worth jack because its ink on paper, that isn't backed by a gold reserve anymore, in a country thats several $1.000.000.000.000 in debt, ruled by a government incresingly alienated from its people, the world population and international conventions.

It will sound silly to most here but Americans: there may come a time that you have to get yourself to safety, just like in any other country in the world. Imagine mass arrests for small vices, martial law, making it only a matter of time before you are next.

If you have a cash surplus I'd say it would be wise to take part of that surplus and convert it into something of inherent value.
Silver, Gold, Palladium, Platinum, Sapphires, Rubies, Diamonds.
This would be good to have even if it didn't yield you a profit, but if you can afford to wait, value tends to increase.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (09/21/06 01:27 PM)

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086625 - 09/21/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Gold is good. Been buying for 4-5 years now. Started when it was around $250/oz. Like elsig, I collect anything gold. Estate sales, pawn shops, crackheads or people that are just down on their luck. Get it however you can.

There's often full page ads in the back of the business section talking about how gold will go close to $2000/oz. I'm not banking on it, but I wouldn't mind.
I mostly buy it because I know, no matter what, it will be worth something. That and I can see disaster striking the US before long and paper/plastic won't be worth a fuck.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: daimyo] * 1
    #6086682 - 09/21/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've just visited the Royal Canadian Mint and I saw a nice item to start out on, for whoever wants to:

Quote:

2006 1/25 Ounce Gold Coin-Cowboy
$79.95 CAN #620096 
The third coin in this series of the smallest pure gold coins the Royal Canadian Mint has ever issued!
Our smallest pure gold coin packs all the grandeur of the untamed frontier.
Its diminutive proportions alone are a numismatic delight as the 2006 1/25 Ounce Gold Coin celebrates a character that’s larger-than-life - the cowboy. This adventurous soul was the backbone of the cattle ranches that settled the West during the last two centuries. And, despite modern technology, many of his tasks remain unchanged.
This coin is struck in 99.99% pure gold and is expertly crafted in proof finish. And, as one of the smallest pure gold coins issued to date, it’s expected to be popular with collectors. The previous two issues quickly sold out and with its mintage of just 25,000 coins worldwide, you’ll want to order yours right away!
.
Coin specifications
Mintage: 25,000
Composition: 99.99% pure gold
Finish: proof
Weight (g): 1.27
Diameter (mm): 13.92
Edge: serrated
Certificate: serialized
Face value: 50¢
Artist: Michelle Grant






A 1/25oz coin of 99.99% gold for (in US dollars) $71.50

Its a nice barter size and can pass the GI tract for when the going gets rough :crazy:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (09/21/06 01:45 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Buying gold [Re: daimyo] * 1
    #6086683 - 09/21/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

plastic might still have value in areas that have the infrastructure for it.

credit card companies are international.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Konnrade] * 1
    #6086698 - 09/21/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

plastic might still have value in areas that have the infrastructure for it.





Plastic isn't presidentproof.

If some nut gets elected who decrees: "from this day on an automatic tax of 20% will be in effect on all transactions" then all money thats merely a bunch of numbers in a computer, is affected. Your number, which you worked so hard for, is cut down in that bank computer and there is nothing you can doo. You just lost 20% of your life savings.

But not Daimyo's watch, which will be worth more because people will wake up from the plastic dream to return to the age of bartering and haggling.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (09/21/06 01:49 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6086756 - 09/21/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

well, cutting the money out of circulation and into government coffers might help combat inflation.

At least I think it might, I don't remember my economics classes very well.

If the government actually used the revenue to pay off national debt, I wouldn't mind a COUPLE percent tax on credit card transactions.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6086772 - 09/21/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

On a large scale this happens in Africa. In many poorer regions, the majority of workers earn less than one dollar a day.

So a one Euro coin



like this one (worth $1.25) can feed a family for a day or can be used to save for a rainy day, and this independent of the country's economy which is important in a country where usually your money devaluates at 10-20% per year.

Many families there have a small treasure chest with some jewelry and, for instance, euro coins and bills.

The same holds true for us in the west. We are used to economic prosperity, but imagine the economy going south, really south, and your money losing half its value?

Your gold will be unaffected and even will become more valuable, as suddenly "everybody" wants to get their hands on it.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086777 - 09/21/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
Quote:

Schwip said:
coins are the way to go...

you got bullion value on top of numismatic value then :smile:




whats bullion and numismatic value mean if you wouldn't mind expaining?



Zippoz yeah i know.  If it goes down to 400 or so i would think about it more.




bullion value is the price per troy ounce that we have been quoting in this thread

numismatic value is collector value....as in the rarity of the coin


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Schwip] * 1
    #6086848 - 09/21/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

*drools*

THIS is the works!





A 35 gram coin of 99.999% pure gold, the highest mint purity standard in the world. Worth about $1.400 US, and looks like something you hope to find at the end of a rainbow :smirk:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6086873 - 09/21/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Gold is good, but more money can be made on silver.

Gold peaked at 850$ in 1980.
That is about 2000$ in 2006 dollars.

Silver peaked at 50$ in 1980.
That is about 130$ in 2006 dollars.

Gold is currently about 600$/oz.
Silver is about 11$/oz.

In order to reach 1980 price levels gold would multiply by a factor of 3.3 giving you a healthy profit of 230 percent- very nice.

But to reach the same 1980 levels silver would multiply by a factor of 11.8 leaving you with a whopping 1080 percent profit!

Which profit would you prefer?

Personally, I'm going with silver and have begun purchasing silver coins- practically stealing them at these low prices.

Whatever you do I would recommend buying in the form of coins and avoiding numismatic coins. You are paying a premium there for rarity and the market is prone to con men. My Dad got ripped off by one and was fortunate to get his money back about ten years later.

One drawback of silver is its weight. An equal value of silver to gold weighs much more which can make portability and storage an issue depending upon how much you are buying.

When the dollar collapses (and it surely will as every other unbacked currency in history has) you will be able to use the coins as money. If all you have is gold coins you may find yourself paying 600$ for something that costs 200$. If you have silver coins you won't have that problem.

So do buy yourself some gold, but don't neglect silver.

As for myself I buy 3/4 of my coin purchases in silver and the rest in gold. So I'm covered either way.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Buying gold [Re: Jellric] * 1
    #6086904 - 09/21/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wow you know i am really glad i started this thread. You guys are a wealth of information! I have learned a lot from this, and for that i thank you all!

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6087077 - 09/21/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

If you have a cash surplus I'd say it would be wise to take part of that surplus and convert it into something of inherent value.
Silver, Gold, Palladium, Platinum, Sapphires, Rubies, Diamonds.
This would be good to have even if it didn't yield you a profit, but if you can afford to wait, value tends to increase.




I agree, profit should not be the motive here.  Gold is NOT meant to be an investment.  Of course, many people try to play it that way - but in my opinion, it is extremely hard to make the same type of returns through playing in gold, when compared to the traditional stock market and especially real estate.

Gold is simply a way to diversify your assets, protecting yourself from rapid inflation on account of a country's rising debt and/or the dilution of its paper value due to printing too much.  Historically speaking, gold is a fantastic way to protect your assets, as it has been held as one of the world's primary methods of wealth transfer in the marketplaces across many centuries and civilizations.  This is in contrast to the fact that all paper money has devalued and in most cases, become entirely worthless in the long run. 

If you insist on playing gold as an investment, I would buy some right now, perhaps 25 - 45 % of your position depending upon your own risk tolerance.  I would continue buying over the next few months.  Gold had a strong run-up in value over the past year, and recently over the summer has given back a good ~15% (estimated on the fly) of its recent gains.  The Federal Reserve of the United States today maintained their stay at 5.25% on the overnight interest rate for the second time (after apx three years of continuous hikes). 

With economic indicators implying that that inflation and economic growth is moderating, it is fairly likely that the Fed will begin to cut interest rates by the end of the year, or in early 2007.  As interest rates come down, the value of the dollar tends to fall as well.  When the value of the dollar falls, many investors will tend to move into gold for its relative stability.  Therefore, it would seem that right now is a fairly good time to start buying gold.  But really, in my opinion gold is for wealth preservation, and not for investing for profit.

As a general rule with any investment, maintain diversification!  Do not put all your eggs in one basket.  If you are considering buying gold with money you do not need, for example if you plan to preserve assets in gold for your children to inheret after you die, by all means soak it up right quick.  But if you are playing as a relatively short-term investor (if you are planning to sell your gold to make a profit), buy incrementally and DO NOT buy all at once.  Also to touch upon zippoz recommendation above, if you have enough money to buy a house - DO THAT FIRST!  That will be the single best investment you can make, even in a market that is so paranoid about a glut of housing which will result in declining value.  Housing is moderating, no question about it, but it will continue to rise.  If you can afford it, a house will be your best investment.  Just don't get caught in a squeeze on an interest only loan.  Be honest with yourself and if you cannot afford a house, don't take the risk.. yet!

Good luck.

PS.  If anyone wants to play a position in the stock market right now and willing to go long on a position for about one year, I would suggest picking up some Google (GOOG).  It is trading around 1X anticipated 2007 earnings - and as the year comes to a close, many large fund managers will start to buy stocks that are trading at 1X growth or lower.  A company like google, with something like a 36% growth rate, may look expensive at $400 a share.  But given that it's price to earnings ratio for next year is only 32X, you can see that it is trading below its growth rate, which in fact makes it quite cheap!  There is a very good chance Google's stock will hit $500 in 2007 (a 25% gain in a year or less).  I'm in it, are you? :grin:


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Edited by geokills (09/21/06 03:26 PM)

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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #6087353 - 09/21/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

How about a finance and investment forum?
No, really :sun:


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6087355 - 09/21/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

we could all act as a consortium and help each other get rich :smile:


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6087363 - 09/21/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
I heard on the radio gold could possibly go up to 1000 an ounce. Right now its at 600 or so dollars.




it could go back down to 300

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6087472 - 09/21/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
How about a finance and investment forum?
No, really :sun:


While I would be thrilled to see an active investment forum here, I believe that only an extremely small portion of the membership here is in a position to actively and responsibly moniter their own investments.  It's easy to spout off at the keyboard, just as it's easy to buy into someone else's hype.  But specific to stocks (as that is what I have the most experience with), the only way you're going to beat the market is by putting in your own time and research. Keeping up with the ongoing trends of the sectors in which you invest, as well as individual company news, and even global macroeconomics and geopolitical risks.  I know that I have a hard enough time keeping up with my own investments, let alone commenting on other's.  It's been over a year now of learning experience, and I am only starting to get a grasp on how emotionally frail most investors are, as a result how volatile the markets have become, and therefore how flexible one MUST be in order to make any money in them.  I'm proud to say not that I have made heaps of cash (yet!), but that I haven't lost anything! 

Composing the above post about gold, housing, and google took me the better part of an hour.  Fortunately my tax man rescheduled a meeting we had for today or I would not have been able to contribute such comprehensive thoughts.  Likewise, a finance and investment forum, while interesting - I do not believe would garner the amount of quality information one would need to be able to utilize it as a legitimate resource.  Simply stated, professional and even serious amateur investors such as myself won't have a lot of time to coach others, answer questions, and teach... and therefore, the forum would likely be completely overrun with rampant speculation.. which will do significantly more harm than good I'm afraid.

If you want to learn about the stock market, sign up with one of the online brokerages (ameritrade, etrade, scottrade, etc), they offer fairly comprehensive analytical tools, including streaming news articles and analyst reports (FYI, I would rarely ever invest upon an wall street analyst's recommendations, they are almost always late to the party and just plain wrong - but they will give you clues which are often enough directly counterintuitive to the specific recommendations they make).  For an aspiring stock investor, consider visiting the following sites:
Recommended Reading:

If you're serious about playing the markets, be flexible, buy incrementally (never all at once), concentrate on your exit strategy (you won't make a dime if all you do is BUY and never think about SELLING), and above all else stay in the game.  The market is quite volatile, and only after gaining experience over the long term are you likely to be able to crunch out serious gains.  Thus far my best play has been GameStop, a video game retailer that merged with Electronics Boutique last year.  Since XBOX 360 came out, obviously people will be buying more video game software; likewise with the upcomming launch of Sony's PS3, even more video games will hit the market.  I've been in GameStop (GME) for about one year and have seen a 45% return on my investment.  Had I not been a total noob when I started, I would have incrementally sold at the peaks, and re-purchased on the dips, to grind out an even greater return.  At this point, I would not recommend buying GME, even though my intention is to hold on to it upto 6 months after the release of the PS3.  The good run has been made, any subsequent gains will most likely pale in comparison. 

What I would strongly recommend, if anyone cares, is to buy Google at $400/share or lower, and sell it near $500.  Just remember that if you buy it that you ought to read the related news for Google's operations, their expectations, sit in on their quarterly conference calls and read the quarterly reports in their entirety.  Pay attention to the P/E estimate on 2007 earnings.  If for some reason google reports next quarter that their ad business (the core of their revenue) has experienced a sharp decline, you must account for the subsequently reduced P/E multiple that buyers are going to be willing to pay, and realize that due to the new information, the stock indeed may not hit $500.  You must know that markets are very dynamic, the buy and hold strategy doesn't seem as fruitful with the way the markets move these days as it would have twenty years ago.  So if you're planning to get in, stay in, and stay active!


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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #6087534 - 09/21/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I wish i new more and figured out how to work it the stocks. Cuz i am tired of paying people to do it for me.

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6087639 - 09/21/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

An interesting thing I just found is GoldMoney Basically this is an online banking method where the sum you deposit gets turned into its weight in gold or silver, in a UK vault insured by Lloyds of London.

The gold physically exists and is yours alone, but you get all the advatages of online banking such as quick transactions should you want to buy/sell. You basically have a Fort Knox for your private economy :sun:

I found it reading a Dutch article that speculated that gold may perhaps only be warming up, the price of oil and gold having always correlated in the past.

Sounds interesting :smile:


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Edited by Asante (09/21/06 06:03 PM)

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6090934 - 09/22/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've been looking into this some more, and the more I did, the more I became charmed by the 1oz Gold Maple Leaf bullion coin.





This coin is a Troy Ounce (31.1gr) of 24 carat, 99.99% pure gold, and because it is a bullion coin it is sold close to the current market value of gold, meaning this 1.5 inch coin these days goes at around $600 US.

When you check gold on some index, you see the figure this coin (or any troz of fine gold) currently is worth.

Basically its a 1 troz nugget of gold, but unlike a nugget it is stamped to be a coin, meaning it's not just feingold, but also a coin with collectors value, and its weight and purity is guaranteed by the Royal Canadian Mint.

For most shroomerites with a buck to spare, gold coins would be les economically discouraging than 1 kilo slabs, not to speak of the 12.5kg/industrial ingot :wink:

If you look at gold as an investment/value preservation then the canadian Gold Maple Leaf is the most universally accepted standard, and a highly compact means of storing monetary value, 600 US dollars in a 31gr coin measuring 1 1/2 inch across. When it's down to survival level, one such coin gets you by for at least a month in the US, or a whole year in a third world nation.

I just chatted with an online friend who told me inflation in his country often was around 20%. Depressing! If you have 10 dollars now and dont spend it in 2006, it will probably worth less than 5 dollars in 2010. Under those conditions there's very little one can do, investing in owning Euros, Yen or dollars, or precious metals is one of the few things you can do to preserve wealth. Developing world banking can be bad even if you have the cash.

If you want to invest in silver, the 1kg 99.9% pure bar is the trade standard, and a 1kg bar would fetch some $333 US, as well as being a cool paperweight :wink:


These are 1 troy ounce (31.1gr) coins of 99.9% pure "fine silver". This is a much desired bullion coin, currently fetching $17.50 apiece, affordable to most here. They are about 1.5x their silver value, but to compensate that they are very collectable and value tends to age well with these. The Silver Panda and Gold panda are the mainstays of passively securing modern asian private capital, and are one of the prefered coins when investing in bullion silver coins.

This is the most capitalist post I ever made :ooo:


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Edited by Asante (09/22/06 05:15 PM)

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6091086 - 09/22/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

gonna call you the bullion hound.

That was a good post.  Thanks for being into this! :shineon:  :thumbup:

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6091110 - 09/22/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

remember the Hunt brothers, back in the 1980,s trying to buy up all the silver?
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_04/laborde012704.html

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6091192 - 09/22/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Poster: Wiccan_Seeker
Subject: Re: Buying gold

I've been looking into this some more, and the more I did, the more I became charmed by the 1oz Gold Maple Leaf bullion coin.









Nice coin but do yourself a favor and buy it in Palladium. Gold is too plentiful, too much in European banks just waiting to be sold. Palladium is the real deal and the 1 oz. Maple Leaf is the way to go.

If you do like gold coins with good potential for numismatic/collector appreciation, check out the Lunar Series (OK I may be a little biased) of the Australian mint. Buy only the 1 oz. gold coins as these have limited mintages of 30,000 coins per year. It is a 12 year series of animals starting in 1996 and 2007 is the last year. China is hosting the 2008 Olympics so anything associated with China will be in hot demand. As coins get maxed out on mintages the value goes up because once 30,000 are minted for any given year they stop minting any more of that year. The 2000 Dragons, 2002 Horses and 2001 Snakes are already maxed out on mintage and are above the price of the others. Dragons at $900 each now! 1998 Tigers may be a good speculation as to maxing out and being a good demand coin and don't currently carry premium above the other years. Check out onlygold.com if you can afford 10 coins or apmex.com if not.


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Edited by LunarEclipse (09/22/06 06:26 PM)

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6091250 - 09/22/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


That was a good post. Thanks for being into this!




Hey no problem, it's nice to really bite down into this because its quite an interesting issue. Its sad that only a few people partake in this thread, because it can prove to be quite important in the near future.

At the moment in the US inflation hovers around 3% for a few years. If you realistically look at it in light of current events then its probable that this will get worse, but lets say it doesn't

Lets say you have $2.000 lying around thats of little use.

You keep $1.000 on the side as ten $100 bills.

The other $1.000 you invest, buying 1 Gold Maple Leaf coin and 20 Silver Panda coins, all being troy ounces of either metal.

Lets say the prices of gold and silver won't do jack for 14 years.

In 2020 you open your treasure trove.
Alas! your $1.000 in dollar bills now only is worth HALF of what it was. Thats the result of inflation as seen from 2000 to present.
Your maple leaf and pandas however are still worth their full $1.000 and because they now are 14 year old coins, they have inevitably gained additional collectors value if you take them to a coin collector rather than the bank.

The paper money never has been worth anything, it takes ten cents to print your ten bills. Your other stash however are vintage quality coins stamped on their worth in gold or silver.
Quite a difference.

Its scary not to rely on banks, but then again its scarier that your savings are nothing more than numbers in a computer or on a piece of paper, like they are now.

They can say your dollar is worth twenty cents, but gold will always be gold and silver always be silver.

China and India, two billion people, are getting wealthier and wealthier, and their women will inevitably suffer an increasing hunger for gold jewelry. There is NO metal which conducts electricity better at ambient temperatures than silver, so high tech will gobble up more and more of it. A case can be made for assuming gold and silver will go up in the coming decade or so.


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6091347 - 09/22/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Your maple leaf and pandas however are still worth their full $1.000 and because they now are 14 year old coins, they have inevitably gained additional collectors value if you take them to a coin collector rather than the bank.





Your bullion coin maple leaf even at 14 years old has probably gained very little collectors value. Too many of them and the coin design doesn't change. I suggest the Australian Perth Mint Lunar series 1998 Tiger at $ 626 each which has 1 ounce of 99.99% gold and real collector value increase potential versus the 2006 Canadian Maple leaf at $ 617 each. Spend the extra $ 9 now and down the road you will likely be rewarded many times over. People in China and India use the coins for jewelry and collect them as well.

Having said that silver is by far the better long term play than gold. 100 ounce bars at spot + 25 cents is a far cheaper way to own silver than buying Chinese Pandas or any other silver coin. They have high markups. The best coin to buy is by far the American Eagle and if you have the money check out the 500 coin sealed tub of brilliant uncirculated coins from the U.S. Mint. Beautiful coins with some collectibility and the sealed tub just assures you will be paid for BU condition down the road. Or if the shit hits the fan they will be great for exchange and no questions asked as to silver content or purity. 1 ounce silver and it's pure.


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Edited by LunarEclipse (09/22/06 07:24 PM)

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Re: Buying gold [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #6098026 - 09/25/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

BUMP!





If gold goes up 5%, this pile secures you a year's income. Better yet: if you bought this pile in the year 2000 and sold it in 2006, you would have made a profit of about 2.7 million dollars.

Quote:

Your bullion coin maple leaf even at 14 years old has probably gained very little collectors value. Too many of them and the coin design doesn't change.




You're right, I was primarily referring to the Silver Panda.

Quote:

I suggest the Australian Perth Mint Lunar series 1998 Tiger at $ 626 each which has 1 ounce of 99.99% gold and real collector value increase potential






Looks very good. The Dragon is the most sought after coin, looking like this:



and has in 6 years already increased a full 1.5 times in collectors value. Had you bought in 2000 and sold in 2006, the 1.5x collectors value increase would have added to the 2x gold price increase, meaning you literally would have turned $1 into $3.

If you were wealthy enough to buy onlygold.com's 10 coin minimum order, that would be a $3.000 buy, $9.000 sell kind of deal :ooo:

Quote:

100 ounce bars at spot + 25 cents is a far cheaper way to own silver than buying Chinese Pandas or any other silver coin. They have high markups.




If you buy sharp, Silver Pandas cost 1.5x their value in silver, which is a high markup, but Silver Pandas age well, typically doubling in collectors value in a few years, separately from the silver price.

Silver bars and ingots are the way to go if you want to approach the silver price closest, but they lack collectors value.

Quote:

The best coin to buy is by far the American Eagle




If you live in America, yes, but foreign buyers might not appreciate the US stampings, just like that's a risk when buying Chinese pandas: if a superpower regime becomes internationally unpopular for political reasons, collectors value of your coins might be negatively affected.
Gold Kruger Rand's likewise might suffer the negative South Africa image, especially those minted during the Apartheid years.

Canadian and Australian coins carry less political risk in that aspect than American, South African and Chinese coins.

We here in Holland have our historic "gouden tientje"http://files.shroomery.org/files/06-39/919693424-gouden_tientje.jpg>


This coin goes for about $110 if you buy sharp, but the problem with it is that it is not a 24 carat (99.99% pure) coin, which is the "fine gold" standard, but rather only is 90% pure. A lower purity of gold means that should you sell it for the gold price, you will get less money per gram of contained gold. On top of that its collectors value is limited, typically only attracting people from Holland or our former colonies.

It is interesting to know that if you had saved a gouden tientje and a ten gulden bill in 1933 and would exchange it now, the gold coin would fetch about two hundred times more than the bill would on gold price alone, inflation corrected, being an average annual 2.63% value increase throughout 76 years, which is as good as a bank, but which actually was more valuable at times of economic need.


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6098036 - 09/25/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So if you had the option to by lets say 10,000 wurth for an invesment/security what would you do?

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6098079 - 09/25/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


So if you had the option to by lets say 10,000 wurth for an invesment/security what would you do?




If I had $10.000 to invest, I would obey to the unwritten rule that you best should invest 10-20% of your capital into precious metals. The US government for instance has 16% of its capital backed with gold.

If you go a tad higher on the precious metals, you could decide to go for a wee bit less than $2.500 worth of precious metals split roughly down the middle to buy for instance 2 gold maple leaf coins and 3 one-kg bars of silver bullion. This gives you the luxury to sell only a part of either supply in case a moderately favorable opportunity or unexpected need arises.

Next stop could be a ten year Dutch (or equally stable) state obligation for an additional $2.500, which at the moment is securer than a bank and fetches a guaranteed 4+% annual interest. This is another redundent safety measure, it is *very* unlikely something will go south with that one so that move will assure $2.500-->$3.500 which, inflation corrected for our usual 2% inflation will be worth $2.900 of the original value instead of $2.000 if you leave it catching dust.

With these redundencies in place you might then invest $2.500 in lower-risk investments and $2.500 in higher risk/higher profit ones.

This is a crudely cut pie but without looking into it too much it seems like a reasonable strategy.

Do keep in mind hidden cost, like renting a box at a bank to store those valuables.


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6098116 - 09/25/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Good advice :thumbup:


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6098151 - 09/25/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So my question is: if things really go south... people starving and whatnot... why is gold even going to matter?

Gold is a decoration. Somebody, somewhere, sometime decided it had real world value for people's survival. This seems silly to me.

If things go south... really south... I'd want a farm.

Maybe I'm just a dumb hippy... but hoarding fresh water, canned vegetables and salted meat and planting some trees so there's still wood left to burn seems like a better survival strategy for the shitstorm that's been brewing up in this new world order...

Am I a fool to think that the world economy is an illusion that some mastermind has fucked us all into believing?

When it really comes down to it... do you want to be stuck with a pile of shiny metal or a pile of calories, hydration, and warmth?

And what really gets me is that they planned it so well that I can SEE the true priorities right in front of my face, but I'm still playing their game of Global Monopoly.

Anyhow...I'm not trying to preach. I'm actually wanting to find a good reason to continue playing their game, because it seems pretty fucked to me. I guess I just woke up one morning and realized I was born into a well-disguised form of slavery... so if anyone could either affirm my beliefs or explain to me why I'm an idiot I would seriously be thankful.

This is a really thought provoking thread by the way... i think we may need that economics forum.

-j


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Re: Buying gold [Re: TheSlapnCapn] * 1
    #6098531 - 09/25/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> if things really go south... why is gold even going to matter?

It will matter because it is a valuable tool for bartering due to its scarcity and undeniable desireability. Obviously it is only a means to an end, but this is important. Afterall, while ultimately we will need the food, water, and warmth more than a piece of metal.. gold has longevity and is not nearly as perishable. Therefore, it can be used as a means to acquire the necessary food, water and warmth for survival (or the components to conjour such substances yourself).


> Am I a fool to think that the world economy is an illusion that some mastermind has fucked us all into believing?

While the world economy does seem to be an abstract process, with value based soley upon perception, the same could be said for our entire existance, our loves, our dislikes, and everything in between. I don't think you're an idiot - I think you are consciously aware that much of what we live for and base our lives around, is just a complex system created by and for humans. This in turn means that we could just as easily destroy the system! So yes, of course if the shit hits the fan, you'll want necessities for life (namely food and water), as well as the means to protect these valuable assets, more than you'll want a hunk of metal.

But when it comes down to it, it is difficult to effectively hoard a lifetime supply of food and water for your family, and this is where trade comes into play. Trade has been used throughout all of recorded history (and very likely long before that). Gold itself has always been held as a valuable commodity for trade in the world's recorded history... even though as I noted above, all paper based money has devalued or simply ceased to carry ANY value whatsoever over time. Therefore, there is indeed something special about gold - not to say that it is impervious to devaluation - but if the world did flip upside down overnight, I believe gold would still be held as a very valuable resource for trade, one of a very select few... just as it has for as long as present day humans have ever known!


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Re: Buying gold *DELETED* [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6098633 - 09/25/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by ThaiLipaYai

Reason for deletion: .



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Re: Buying gold [Re: Scott Bennett] * 1
    #6099195 - 09/25/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the approval of the spread-investment idea Geokills, it seemed sane but I'm glad it seems that way to you too.

Quote:

When it really comes down to it... do you want to be stuck with a pile of shiny metal or a pile of calories, hydration, and warmth?




I'm 300 lbs. Being stuck with a pile of calories is overrated :wink:

Quote:

So my question is: if things really go south... people starving and whatnot... why is gold even going to matter?




Even if Bush goes nuts and pushes the button, and Russia retaliates, there'll at least for a long while be 3-4 billion survivors. Even with a sudden holocaust like that, people will not starve equally. There'll be haves and have nots, and if all your wealth amounts to pieces of paper and numbers in a computer, you'll be a have not. In that unlikely postapocalyptic world, guns and gold will be of great importance, and gold has a fair chance to buy you protection, and a gold maple leaf might get you that last place on the evac helicopter more than your good looks will :smirk:

Think of that movie Schindler's List: even in nazi germany Oskar Schindler could save the hundreds of Jewish families that worked for him, not through bold and cunning heroics but through the use of hard cash money. When the train with the wives of his factory workers took a wrong turn, it was cash money which enabled him to buy their freedom right out of the jaws of Auschwitz. He bought their freedom and these Jewish wives and children got back on the train, and rode out of the fully operational concentration camp. The reichsmark was a stable currency, but when it was not, hard liquid capital like gold would buy him the barter items and diamonds he needed to fulfil his destiny.

If you look at the Great Depression, you see sad stories of rich and average people losing their posessions, harvesting the inner doors and woodwork of their houses for firewood and finally end up homeless. If they had substantial capital backed by their own precious metal reserve then they could have gotten by well, or even made a killing financially.

Quote:

If things go south... really south... I'd want a farm.




If you look at that statement the capitalist way, you're saying you'd rather invest in real estate :grin: And you should! Real estate ia a very good investment! But, you cannot take it with you. You can easily stuff your coat pockets with $50.000 in gold maple leafs, and if you look at diamonds, you can easily swallow 10 peasized diamonds of 5 carats each, and no metal detector or airport x-ray machine will reveal that you've got a million dollars on you :ooo:

Quote:

Where do you suggest purchasing these coins?




Anywhere, with a preference for physical shops you can visit and view your purchase before buying. Online shops might well be scams, and would definitely require transportation insurance, and would have to be a trusted source.

That onlygold.com website that was recommended to us looks solid, except their minimum order is 10 troy ounces. If you safeguard your investment money with 10-20% precious metals, and let half of them be gold, the 10 troz minimum would assume the reader's got $60.000-$120.000 free for investment, which is a tad unrealistic to assume.

Any store that actually gets you the goods as close to the current gold and silver prices as possible would be good. With bullion coins as well as with silver bars it is important to buy internationally recognised brands, these bars often have the inscriptions "999 pure" "melter assayer" and the weight of the bar. A good brand for gold or silver bars would be Credit Suisse, who are said to be among the best priced and bestlooking bars in the trade.

With gold you should always go for bullion coins, even if that means thousands of them, because you can rid yourself of them far more readily than, say, 12.5kg bars. Many people and even small businesses simply don't have that kind of money ($225.000) immediately available, coins allow for buying and selling closer to your needs, and either the 12.5kg bar or the 400 coins fit in one suitcase anyway.

If you buy an off-brand or odd-weight bar, you might have to have your bars tested before you can sell them, which ofcourse is wasteful.
At the moment 1 gold maple leaf/panda = 2 bars of 1kg silver each.

Some banks, like the Swiss banks, offer a very convenient system where you can walk in, buy your bars and bullion coins with cash or plastic and then take them to your box in the vault, all the while within the safety of the bank. If you can get that kind of deal then go for it, don't expose a significant investment to needless transport, or uninsured storage.


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Edited by Asante (09/25/06 04:56 PM)

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Invisibleelsig
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6099255 - 09/25/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i just checked for the first time how much money my gold is worth and its around 6400 euros, thats not too bad :smile:

this post has inspired me to collect even more gold lol
great post

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #6104896 - 09/26/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here's an article a friend sent me.

Stay Focused on Gold's Major Trend

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6105130 - 09/26/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:

Who is to say something won't happen. unless we clean up our act, shit will hit the fan. our president has no ethical motives other then his own. he is breaking international laws of the geneva convention type. He is trying to get another war started before november. When will the world say enough is enough?






well we cant say enough is enough, just as in south park were just a tv show and the earth will be bombed by big gay aliens. we gotta keep the violence up or were off the air..... nah im a dick im just messin aroun i tottaly agree with you


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Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #6149611 - 10/09/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You're an invester and you are forced to make the following choices:

:sun:
Gold
You may choose only one
Silver
You may choose only one
Palladium
You may choose only one
Platinum
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/09/06 10:11 AM) to (No end specified)
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6149642 - 10/09/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

what type of investor? futures?
are we buying metals as a porfolio and not options?

metal will always go up you just need to wait, so what type of buys are you talking about?

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Re: Buying gold [Re: goobler] * 1
    #6150030 - 10/09/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

what type of investor? futures?
are we buying metals as a porfolio and not options?





I decided to leave it open for a more natural response :wink:

Goobler, what do you think about the whole gold/silver thing? Do you believe in the whole bullmarket/$1.000+ per troz deal?

Given the choice between gold and silver, what would you be heavier in?


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6150150 - 10/09/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I said buy, But i would probably buy more of some and less of others. If it went up, i would sell some to buy some more. If it went real low i would buy as much as possible.

I would use most of it as a security as an extra peace of me "net wurth" But if i could buy hold on and sell and make a few i would be happy to do so.

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6150240 - 10/09/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If it went real low i would buy as much as possible.




It would be rich and creamy if this were 2001, and we knew then what we know now. big congratulations to anyone who hopped on board then. In 2001 I was too busy smoking pot to heed the gold trends. Ack :mad:


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6150246 - 10/09/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

But the question is... are we smoking pot right now instead of hopping on the bus to richville....

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6150323 - 10/09/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

At the moment I'm doing neither  ^_^

If I were to buy gold I'd go for Maple Leafs, if I were to buy silver I'd go for kilo bars.

Bit like a bunny caught in the headlights I'm sitting here wondering which of either, or both or none at all.
This happens a lot with posting on the internet :smirk:

What are you considering?

I see Silver as a wild mustang which can get you there lightning quick or throw you off, and Gold as a donkey which will be more likely to get you there - it just will need more time.

What is wisdom?


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6150417 - 10/09/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Have yet to actualy consider anything. They are all being considered but with much shyness.

With the silver though, can i take a bar and melt it down and use it for jewlery? or is it the wrong type.

I would probably head your advice from earlier make most of my investment in silver, then buy and hoard some gold for those rainy days.

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6150517 - 10/09/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The silver you buy in bars is "fine silver", which is the going lingo for 99.9% pure silver, and it's the right silver for making jewelry and casting anti-werewolf bullets. Beware however that silver tends to splatter and deform when it cools from a melt.

Gold goes as "fine gold" which is 99.99% pure, this purity is also called 24 carat gold. The best coins (like the maple leaf) are of this highest purity, and a skilled jeweler can without too much difficulty turn one of your coins into jewelry for your girl, a gold tooth for you or wedding rings for the both of you :laugh:


Gold and Silver are measured in troy ounces, this being 31.1 grams.
Sizes you may readily encounter are the 1 troy ounce coin, the 10 troz bar or the 1kg bar.

Particularly handsome and very portable is the 10 troy ounce gold bar



..an absolute drooler at $6.000 for 311gr of 24 carat gold.
(this type is sold by onlygold.com)


Did I recommend being heavy in silver? :confused:

At the moment I'm more leaning towards either gold only or a gold-dominated combination of the two.

..if I'd take the risk then I'd definitely not hoard it anyplace else than in a bank deposit box, and I urge anyone to not keep it in their homes. Gold will survive a fire but not a home invasion burglary.


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6190452 - 10/20/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just another bumpetybump for an interesting thread :smirk:

Gold is at $600/troy ounce today. Should you do all sorts of transactions you might get your gold at $666 :ooo:

If gold rises to $1.000/troz, this would mean that you would make a 50% profit over your investment.
But would it?
Polltime:smile2:
Will gold reach the $1.000/troz mark within a decade?
You may choose only one


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6190619 - 10/20/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

probably yes though it may just be wishful thinking.

But since money isn't backed by gold anymore whos to say whats going to happen? They just keep printing it out. They keep it a secret too.

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6190715 - 10/20/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The value of gold has stayed roughly the same for the last 2000 years. For example I've read that an ounce of gold could buy a good suit (or it's 2000 year old equivilant) in any time period.

It's the american dollar that's going down in value.

Same thing with the canadian dollar. Some people think it's going up (and it is slightly) but mostly it's the lower value of the american dollar that makes our currency seem more valuable all of a
sudden.

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Re: Buying gold [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl] * 1
    #6191186 - 10/20/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

From the early 1970s to the early 1980s gold moved from a low of $40 to a high of $850. Had you been on that train, $50.000 in 1971 would make you a millionaire in 1981.

What you bought in 2001 for $200 you can now sell for $600.

A recent French report says gold might go from it's $600 to a $2.000 extreme in just a few years. What happened in the early 80s backs that with precedent.

Gold since the early 1970s has been whitewater compared to the tranquil pond it was in the 300 years before.

Inflation and decreased world stability is key. Peak oil. The world is in troubled waters, and this causes increased variability in the gold price. America is in substantial inflation (I saw true inflation estimated at around 6%) and chances are they'll have to face up to that reality. This will mean the same amount of gold will fetch more dollars - and presto: Corporal Kielbasa gets paid :laugh:

In fact Schwip is laughing all the way to the bank already: he bought at 300 and in 5 years he doubled that :thumbup:

Perhaps a troy ounce bought a suit in 1906 and in 2006, but imagine you kept your capital from back then in dollars (inflation killed it dead) or invested it (in which case you likely went bankrupt
like almost any investment co does in its first century)

Choosing for gold is choosing for security. The hype is that there is profit to be made, and it often is, but the bottom line is that there has been no inflation eating away at it in the 2.000 year period you mentioned.


edit: here's an article for those interested!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE POWER OF GOLD
by Bill Bonner and AddisonWiggin


Mr. James Surowiecki wrote a wise and moronic piece on gold in the New Yorker. His wisdom is centered on the insight that neither gold, nor paper money are true wealth, but only relative measures, subject to adjustment.

“Gold or not, we’re always just running on air,” he wrote. “You can’t be rich unless everyone agrees you’re rich.”

In other words, there is no law that guarantees gold at $450 an ounce. It might just as well be priced at $266 an ounce, as it was when George W. Bush took office for the first time. Since then, a man who counted his wealth in Kruggerands has become 70 percent richer.

But gold wasn’t born yesterday, or four years ago. Mr. Surowiecki noticed that the metal has a past, just as it has a present. He turned his head around and looked back a quarter of a century. The yellow metal was not a great way to preserve wealth during that period, he notes. As a result, he sees no difference between a paper dollar and a gold doubloon, or between a bull market in gold and a bubble in technology shares.

“In the end, our trust in gold is no different from our trust in a piece of paper with ‘one dollar’ written on it,” he believes. And when you buy gold, “you’re buying into a collective hallucination-exactly what those dot-com investors did in the late nineties.”

Pity he did not bother to look back a little further. This is the moronic part. While Mr. Surowiecki looked at a bit of gold’s past, he did not see enough of it. Both gold and paper dollars have histories, but gold has far more. Both gold and dollars have a future. But, and this is the important part, gold is likely to have more of that, too.

The expression, “as rich as Croesus,” is of ancient origin. The king of historic Lydia is remembered, even today, for his great wealth. Croesus was not rich because he had stacks of dollar bills. Instead, he measured his richness in gold. No one says “as poor as Croesus.” We have also heard the expression, “not worth a Continental,” referring to America’s paper money during the Revolutionary War era. We have never heard the expression, “not worth a Kruggerand.”

Likewise, when Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s,” he referred to a denarius, a coin of gold or silver, not a paper currency. The coin had Caesar’s image on it, just as today’s American money has a picture of Lincoln, Washington, or Jackson on it. Dead presidents were golden back then. Even today, a gold denarius is still about as valuable as it was when Caesar conquered Gaul. America’s dead presidents, whose images are printed in green ink on special paper, lose 2 percent to 5 percent of their purchasing power every year. What do you think they will be worth 2,000 years from now?

A few years before Jesus, Crassus, who had made his fortune on real estate speculation in Rome, decided to put together an army to hustle the east. Alas, such projects almost always meet with disaster; the attempt by Crassus was no exception. He was captured by the Parthians and was put to death in an unusually cruel and costly way. He did not end his days with paper money stuffed down his throat, and certainly not dollar bills.

No, they poured molten gold down his gullet-or so the story has it. Gold has a long history. And during its history, many was the time that humans were tempted to replace it with other forms of money- which they believed would be more convenient, more modern, and mostimportantly, more accommodating. Gold is hard to find and hard to bring up out of the earth. By its nature, the quantity of gold is always limited.

Paper money, by contrast, offers irresistible possibilities. The list of bright paper rivals is long and colorful. You will find hundreds of examples, from assignats to zlotys, and from imperial purple to beer suds brown. But the story of paper money is short and predictable. Since the invention of the printing press, a new paper dollar or franc can be brought out at negligible cost. Nor does it cost much to increase the money supply by a factor of 10 or 100-simply add zeros. It may seem obvious, but adding zeros does not add value.

Still, the attraction of being able to get something for nothing has always been too great to resist. That is what makes goldbugs so irritating: They are always pointing it out. Even worse, they seem to enjoy saying “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch,” which comes as a big disappointment to most people.

Once people were able to create money at virtually no expense, no one ever resisted doing it to excess. No paper currency has ever held its value for very long. Most are ruined within a few years. Some take longer.

Even the world’s two most successful paper currencies-the American dollar and the British pound-have each lost more than 95 percent of their value in the past century, which is especially remarkable since both were linked by law and custom to gold for most of those years. For the dollar, the final link to gold was severed only 34 years ago.

Some paper currencies are destroyed almost absentmindedly. Others are ruined intentionally. But all go away eventually. By contrast, every gold coin that was ever struck is still valuable today, most have more real value than when they first came out of the mint.

Central bankers reported in early 2005 that 70 percent of them were Increasing their reserves of euros. As for the world’s erstwhile and present reserve currency, the dollar, they seemed to have, not growing reserves, but growing reservations. We also have reservations about the dollar. Whatever it is worth today or tomorrow, we are sure it will have less worth eventually. That it is not regarded as worthless already is remarkable. The average dollar is nothing more than electronic information. It exists thanks only to the ability of digital technology to keep track of it. Relatively few dollars ever make it to paper, and many of them end up in the pockets of Russian drug dealers and African politicians. Most dollars inmost people’s accounts are not even graced with the image of a dead president; when the end comes, they won’t even be useful for starting fires.

It is imperial vanity that keeps the dollar in business. And it is vanity that will make it worthless. Economists want money they can control.

Central bankers want money they can debase. And politicians want money they might get their mug on. The trouble with gold is that it turns its back on world improvers, empire builders, and do-gooders. It is money that no central bank promotes and none destroys. It is money that exists only in a tangible form, a real metal-a number on the periodic table.

“Gold goes up and down, just like other kinds of money,” say economists. Which is true. “You can protect yourself from inflation in other ways,” say the speculators. True again.

“Gold pays no dividends or interest,” say the investors. True.

Nor will gold cure baldness or add inches to your most private part. Even as money, gold may not be perfect. But it is better money than anything else. Gold was around millions of years before the U.S. dollar was invented. It will probably be around a billion years after. This longevity is not in itself a great recommendation. It is like buying a suit that will last longer than you do; there is no point to it. But the reason for gold’s longevity is also the reason for its great virtue as money: It is inert; it yields neither to technology nor to vanity.

The world improvers will always be with us. They will spend more than they have, boss other people around, and generally make the world a worse place to live. They will offer proposals like those of Thomas L. Friedman. The nice thing about gold is that it is so unresponsive. It neither laughs nor applauds. Gold is money that no central bank promotes and none destroys.

Paper money is a handy tool for the world improvers. They use it like politicians use civil service jobs and generals use heavy bombers-to get their way. Whatever the vapid ideal du jour, it takes money to pursue it. Given enough money, the poor can be fed and housed. The middle classes can be given free medical care and low-cost loans for houses. The upper classes can be given contracts and favors. Enemies can be summoned up, bombed, and reconstructed. Bread, circuses, war-the imperial program costs money.

How to get more money for these great new programs, these marvelously worthwhile ideals, these fabulous public spectacles? Gold flatly refuses to cooperate. It doesn’t even give a reason. Instead, it stays as mute and reticent as a dead man in front of a television. No matter how persuasive the advertising, the man is not going to go for it.

Paper money, on the other hand, barely needs encouragement. Start up the presses! Lower the interest rate! Relax reserve requirements and lending standards! Sell more bonds! Create more paper! Paper money is ready to go along with anything. Like George W. Bush, it never met a boondoggle it didn’t like. Sooner or later, it ends up as worthless as the projects it was meant to pay for.

Gold is merely the subversive investor’s way of protecting himself.


Regards,

Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin
for The Daily Reckoning


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Edited by Asante (10/20/06 04:58 PM)

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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6191862 - 10/20/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I want gold but don't have the money to invest. Is there a risk-free evalution package where I can sample the interest rates for myself?

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Disco Cat] * 1
    #6541207 - 02/07/07 05:08 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Is there a risk-free evalution package where I can sample the interest rates for myself?





Back in the time when this thread was all the thing, gold was about $600/troy ounce. Now, 5 months later, it was at $655 only yesterday. If you had bought 11 bullion coins then, you now could've sold 10 to get your money back, and the one coin you kept would've been pure profit, whether we're speaking of a $50 Australian Dragon of 1/20oz, or a $6.700 bar of 10oz. Over 9% profit in 5 months, not bad I'd say!


Here's some eyecandy I made, showing the most common kinds of bullion coins.
I hope this bump gets the thread going again!



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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #7518491 - 10/15/07 06:36 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

We are now about a year after this thread got on a roll, and had a few threads follow in its wake.
Time to make up the balance so far between October 2006 and October 2007.


GOLD $600/oz --> $755/oz = +25.8%

and in euros:

GOLD E482 --> E532 = +10.4%


This means that our more adventurous Americans who had the means to invest some in Gold are laughing now, as they turned every $100 into $126, which is about the same gain in one year as their dollars would have made on a bank account in a decade.

Even the Euro goldbugs have seen a 10% increase, which is pretty damn decent.

But what you see in the discrepancy is downright appalling for our American friends and their Dollar.

If you were to compare the euro and the dollar in this triangle and consider gold to be the product one wishes to buy, purchasing power of the Dollar has dropped two and a half times as fast as that of the euro.

But the euro has declined too.

If you listen to the european central bank and take their word as Gospel, then inflation in the EU has been 2.5%, with 2% being a goal.

If you take this figure to the dollar, using gold as a reference, then one cannot escape the shocking conclusion that

Inflation in the USA is at least 6.25%

which happens to be well into the range the "tinfoil hat crew" says it really is.

If you listen it informal sources in the EU then they say the true inflation in the EU is closer to 4%. If you take this to the dollar then true inflation in the USA might be as high as 10% which is exactly as high as www.shadowstats.com calculates the US inflation to be:

Quote:

April 2007 Edition - May. 7, 2007
.
April Payroll Contraction Appears to Have Been Masked / M3 Growth Surges to 9-11 Liquefaction Levels and Worse / Mounting Inflationary Recession Has Hobbled Fed / Intensifying Dollar Sell-Off and Gold Boom Loom / Knees would be knocking audibly in the credit markets, if the Fed still reported M3 growth. Annual growth (SGS Ongoing M3 series) accelerated sharply in April to 12.9%, from 11.7% in March. The last time annual M3 growth approached 13%, the Fed was liquefying the financial system in the wake of the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Before that, the year was 1981 and official annual CPI inflation was running about 10%. If 10% inflation sounds familiar, that is roughly the level of annual CPI inflation that would be reported today using the CPI methodologies of 1980. Exacerbating the financial catastrophe that slowly is unfolding for the U.S. markets, the economy is in a deepening recession and the U.S. dollar has begun suffering nascent selling pressures. In terms of monthly averages, gold already is at an all-time high, and the trade-weighted dollar is at an all-time low. Out of touch with reality, the Dow Jones Industrial Average keeps bouncing to new highs.





So I'm sorry to say we told you so, but we told you so.


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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7518636 - 10/15/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, you guys are good. :respect:


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Re: Buying gold [Re: skydog] * 1
    #7519694 - 10/15/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks, but we're not "good" or in any way amazing :smirk:

What we did is pick up a lead and then simply sat down and googled out the facts. You don't have to be an expert (I certainly am not) but you can gather a lot of facts and factoids via the internet.

*inserts a snippet from my "decline of the dollar" thread*

Here's a table I made with some websearching that shows the price of gold in US dollars and Euros per troy ounce, as they were at the PM fix of this 15 October for the past five years. I also included the conversion factor that on that day existed between dollars and euros, and finally the alleged Euro-zone inflation of January of each of those years. Please note that the REAL inflation in the Euro zone is probably much higher.

Quote:

PM London Fix, October 15 2002-2007

Year - $/oz -- E/oz - $/E ----------Eurozone Inflation
2002 - $316 - E322 - 1.01937 EUR --- 2.7%
2003 - $374 - $321 - 0.858222 EUR -- 2.2%
2004 - $421 - E337 - 0.80141 EUR --- 1.6%
2005 - $469 - E388 - 0.828295 EUR -- 1.9%
2006 - $592 - E473 - 0.79885 EUR --- 2.4%
2007 - $758 - E533 - 0.703433 EUR -- 1.8%





It is immediately apparent that gold is going up for the past 5 years, but also that the dollar is going down relative to gold and the euro.

The Dollar used to be worth more than the 2002 Euro, but now it is 70% of what is LEFT of the Euro. (which according to one of my sources is a five-year decline of about 57% for the dollar and 40% for the euro, but thats from the :tinfoil: squad)

If you believe the boys at Eurostat then in those five years the Euro declined a mere 15%, which would make the dollar's decline over the same time period about 40%, as the 2007 dollar today is worth 70% of 85% of the 2002 Euro.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7587990 - 11/02/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Gold just closed at $806.80 per ounce :yesnod:

$900 here we come. The Cheuvreux Gold Report raised some eyebrows back at when gold was at $600, but past the $800 mark its promise of $900 is closer than ever.

And there's more action yet this year.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #7588012 - 11/02/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

elsig said:
I collect gold, have done so for nearly 15 years. I collect anything that is gold and get it melted into small goldbars, mostly jewlery and stuff. Its a hobby I really enjoy and I have yet to sell one gram of gold. sometimes i have cannabis or some other things people want and I trade for anything in gold. my colection is worth quite a bit, not sure how much, i dont follow the gold prices.




Isn't the gold in jewlrey pretty impure though? How do you get it down to pure?

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: BrAiN] * 1
    #7829562 - 01/03/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis gold was at $600 per tory ounce. Today the same ounce fetches $865.





Cheers to all who are in, Happy New Year and may 2008 shatter the 1980 all time high of $875 and leave it in the dust.

$1.500 Gold FTW!


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7829641 - 01/03/08 09:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis (particularly post #6087077), GOOGLE was around $400 per share. Today the same share fetches around $700.



Unfortunately, I also suggested in post #6087472 that you should have sold it at $500.
Fortunately for me, I didn't follow that last piece of advice and still own it!

I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #7830876 - 01/04/08 07:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.





I was thinking of those 2 companies exactly, both have been expanding greatly in the last past years. I just wish I had known about the ipod revolution and invested in Apple 5 years ago! Intel looks like a sound investment too, me thinks.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #7831575 - 01/04/08 11:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis (particularly post #6087077), GOOGLE was around $400 per share. Today the same share fetches around $700.



Unfortunately, I also suggested in post #6087472 that you should have sold it at $500.
Fortunately for me, I didn't follow that last piece of advice and still own it!

I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.






Shit.. think about the people who bought the IPO... fucking RICH

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Offline0xYg3n
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Scott Bennett] * 1
    #8156138 - 03/17/08 03:57 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I bet you could find some of the net.

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Offline0xYg3n
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Scott Bennett] * 1
    #8156149 - 03/17/08 04:27 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Start digging...

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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Buying gold [Re: 0xYg3n] * 1
    #8159895 - 03/17/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)



YIKES....



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