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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6150323 - 10/09/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

At the moment I'm doing neither  ^_^

If I were to buy gold I'd go for Maple Leafs, if I were to buy silver I'd go for kilo bars.

Bit like a bunny caught in the headlights I'm sitting here wondering which of either, or both or none at all.
This happens a lot with posting on the internet :smirk:

What are you considering?

I see Silver as a wild mustang which can get you there lightning quick or throw you off, and Gold as a donkey which will be more likely to get you there - it just will need more time.

What is wisdom?


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6150417 - 10/09/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Have yet to actualy consider anything. They are all being considered but with much shyness.

With the silver though, can i take a bar and melt it down and use it for jewlery? or is it the wrong type.

I would probably head your advice from earlier make most of my investment in silver, then buy and hoard some gold for those rainy days.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6150517 - 10/09/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The silver you buy in bars is "fine silver", which is the going lingo for 99.9% pure silver, and it's the right silver for making jewelry and casting anti-werewolf bullets. Beware however that silver tends to splatter and deform when it cools from a melt.

Gold goes as "fine gold" which is 99.99% pure, this purity is also called 24 carat gold. The best coins (like the maple leaf) are of this highest purity, and a skilled jeweler can without too much difficulty turn one of your coins into jewelry for your girl, a gold tooth for you or wedding rings for the both of you :laugh:


Gold and Silver are measured in troy ounces, this being 31.1 grams.
Sizes you may readily encounter are the 1 troy ounce coin, the 10 troz bar or the 1kg bar.

Particularly handsome and very portable is the 10 troy ounce gold bar



..an absolute drooler at $6.000 for 311gr of 24 carat gold.
(this type is sold by onlygold.com)


Did I recommend being heavy in silver? :confused:

At the moment I'm more leaning towards either gold only or a gold-dominated combination of the two.

..if I'd take the risk then I'd definitely not hoard it anyplace else than in a bank deposit box, and I urge anyone to not keep it in their homes. Gold will survive a fire but not a home invasion burglary.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6190452 - 10/20/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Just another bumpetybump for an interesting thread :smirk:

Gold is at $600/troy ounce today. Should you do all sorts of transactions you might get your gold at $666 :ooo:

If gold rises to $1.000/troz, this would mean that you would make a 50% profit over your investment.
But would it?
Polltime:smile2:
Will gold reach the $1.000/troz mark within a decade?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/20/06 11:01 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6190619 - 10/20/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

probably yes though it may just be wishful thinking.

But since money isn't backed by gold anymore whos to say whats going to happen? They just keep printing it out. They keep it a secret too.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #6190715 - 10/20/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The value of gold has stayed roughly the same for the last 2000 years. For example I've read that an ounce of gold could buy a good suit (or it's 2000 year old equivilant) in any time period.

It's the american dollar that's going down in value.

Same thing with the canadian dollar. Some people think it's going up (and it is slightly) but mostly it's the lower value of the american dollar that makes our currency seem more valuable all of a
sudden.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl] * 1
    #6191186 - 10/20/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

From the early 1970s to the early 1980s gold moved from a low of $40 to a high of $850. Had you been on that train, $50.000 in 1971 would make you a millionaire in 1981.

What you bought in 2001 for $200 you can now sell for $600.

A recent French report says gold might go from it's $600 to a $2.000 extreme in just a few years. What happened in the early 80s backs that with precedent.

Gold since the early 1970s has been whitewater compared to the tranquil pond it was in the 300 years before.

Inflation and decreased world stability is key. Peak oil. The world is in troubled waters, and this causes increased variability in the gold price. America is in substantial inflation (I saw true inflation estimated at around 6%) and chances are they'll have to face up to that reality. This will mean the same amount of gold will fetch more dollars - and presto: Corporal Kielbasa gets paid :laugh:

In fact Schwip is laughing all the way to the bank already: he bought at 300 and in 5 years he doubled that :thumbup:

Perhaps a troy ounce bought a suit in 1906 and in 2006, but imagine you kept your capital from back then in dollars (inflation killed it dead) or invested it (in which case you likely went bankrupt
like almost any investment co does in its first century)

Choosing for gold is choosing for security. The hype is that there is profit to be made, and it often is, but the bottom line is that there has been no inflation eating away at it in the 2.000 year period you mentioned.


edit: here's an article for those interested!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE POWER OF GOLD
by Bill Bonner and AddisonWiggin


Mr. James Surowiecki wrote a wise and moronic piece on gold in the New Yorker. His wisdom is centered on the insight that neither gold, nor paper money are true wealth, but only relative measures, subject to adjustment.

“Gold or not, we’re always just running on air,” he wrote. “You can’t be rich unless everyone agrees you’re rich.”

In other words, there is no law that guarantees gold at $450 an ounce. It might just as well be priced at $266 an ounce, as it was when George W. Bush took office for the first time. Since then, a man who counted his wealth in Kruggerands has become 70 percent richer.

But gold wasn’t born yesterday, or four years ago. Mr. Surowiecki noticed that the metal has a past, just as it has a present. He turned his head around and looked back a quarter of a century. The yellow metal was not a great way to preserve wealth during that period, he notes. As a result, he sees no difference between a paper dollar and a gold doubloon, or between a bull market in gold and a bubble in technology shares.

“In the end, our trust in gold is no different from our trust in a piece of paper with ‘one dollar’ written on it,” he believes. And when you buy gold, “you’re buying into a collective hallucination-exactly what those dot-com investors did in the late nineties.”

Pity he did not bother to look back a little further. This is the moronic part. While Mr. Surowiecki looked at a bit of gold’s past, he did not see enough of it. Both gold and paper dollars have histories, but gold has far more. Both gold and dollars have a future. But, and this is the important part, gold is likely to have more of that, too.

The expression, “as rich as Croesus,” is of ancient origin. The king of historic Lydia is remembered, even today, for his great wealth. Croesus was not rich because he had stacks of dollar bills. Instead, he measured his richness in gold. No one says “as poor as Croesus.” We have also heard the expression, “not worth a Continental,” referring to America’s paper money during the Revolutionary War era. We have never heard the expression, “not worth a Kruggerand.”

Likewise, when Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s,” he referred to a denarius, a coin of gold or silver, not a paper currency. The coin had Caesar’s image on it, just as today’s American money has a picture of Lincoln, Washington, or Jackson on it. Dead presidents were golden back then. Even today, a gold denarius is still about as valuable as it was when Caesar conquered Gaul. America’s dead presidents, whose images are printed in green ink on special paper, lose 2 percent to 5 percent of their purchasing power every year. What do you think they will be worth 2,000 years from now?

A few years before Jesus, Crassus, who had made his fortune on real estate speculation in Rome, decided to put together an army to hustle the east. Alas, such projects almost always meet with disaster; the attempt by Crassus was no exception. He was captured by the Parthians and was put to death in an unusually cruel and costly way. He did not end his days with paper money stuffed down his throat, and certainly not dollar bills.

No, they poured molten gold down his gullet-or so the story has it. Gold has a long history. And during its history, many was the time that humans were tempted to replace it with other forms of money- which they believed would be more convenient, more modern, and mostimportantly, more accommodating. Gold is hard to find and hard to bring up out of the earth. By its nature, the quantity of gold is always limited.

Paper money, by contrast, offers irresistible possibilities. The list of bright paper rivals is long and colorful. You will find hundreds of examples, from assignats to zlotys, and from imperial purple to beer suds brown. But the story of paper money is short and predictable. Since the invention of the printing press, a new paper dollar or franc can be brought out at negligible cost. Nor does it cost much to increase the money supply by a factor of 10 or 100-simply add zeros. It may seem obvious, but adding zeros does not add value.

Still, the attraction of being able to get something for nothing has always been too great to resist. That is what makes goldbugs so irritating: They are always pointing it out. Even worse, they seem to enjoy saying “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch,” which comes as a big disappointment to most people.

Once people were able to create money at virtually no expense, no one ever resisted doing it to excess. No paper currency has ever held its value for very long. Most are ruined within a few years. Some take longer.

Even the world’s two most successful paper currencies-the American dollar and the British pound-have each lost more than 95 percent of their value in the past century, which is especially remarkable since both were linked by law and custom to gold for most of those years. For the dollar, the final link to gold was severed only 34 years ago.

Some paper currencies are destroyed almost absentmindedly. Others are ruined intentionally. But all go away eventually. By contrast, every gold coin that was ever struck is still valuable today, most have more real value than when they first came out of the mint.

Central bankers reported in early 2005 that 70 percent of them were Increasing their reserves of euros. As for the world’s erstwhile and present reserve currency, the dollar, they seemed to have, not growing reserves, but growing reservations. We also have reservations about the dollar. Whatever it is worth today or tomorrow, we are sure it will have less worth eventually. That it is not regarded as worthless already is remarkable. The average dollar is nothing more than electronic information. It exists thanks only to the ability of digital technology to keep track of it. Relatively few dollars ever make it to paper, and many of them end up in the pockets of Russian drug dealers and African politicians. Most dollars inmost people’s accounts are not even graced with the image of a dead president; when the end comes, they won’t even be useful for starting fires.

It is imperial vanity that keeps the dollar in business. And it is vanity that will make it worthless. Economists want money they can control.

Central bankers want money they can debase. And politicians want money they might get their mug on. The trouble with gold is that it turns its back on world improvers, empire builders, and do-gooders. It is money that no central bank promotes and none destroys. It is money that exists only in a tangible form, a real metal-a number on the periodic table.

“Gold goes up and down, just like other kinds of money,” say economists. Which is true. “You can protect yourself from inflation in other ways,” say the speculators. True again.

“Gold pays no dividends or interest,” say the investors. True.

Nor will gold cure baldness or add inches to your most private part. Even as money, gold may not be perfect. But it is better money than anything else. Gold was around millions of years before the U.S. dollar was invented. It will probably be around a billion years after. This longevity is not in itself a great recommendation. It is like buying a suit that will last longer than you do; there is no point to it. But the reason for gold’s longevity is also the reason for its great virtue as money: It is inert; it yields neither to technology nor to vanity.

The world improvers will always be with us. They will spend more than they have, boss other people around, and generally make the world a worse place to live. They will offer proposals like those of Thomas L. Friedman. The nice thing about gold is that it is so unresponsive. It neither laughs nor applauds. Gold is money that no central bank promotes and none destroys.

Paper money is a handy tool for the world improvers. They use it like politicians use civil service jobs and generals use heavy bombers-to get their way. Whatever the vapid ideal du jour, it takes money to pursue it. Given enough money, the poor can be fed and housed. The middle classes can be given free medical care and low-cost loans for houses. The upper classes can be given contracts and favors. Enemies can be summoned up, bombed, and reconstructed. Bread, circuses, war-the imperial program costs money.

How to get more money for these great new programs, these marvelously worthwhile ideals, these fabulous public spectacles? Gold flatly refuses to cooperate. It doesn’t even give a reason. Instead, it stays as mute and reticent as a dead man in front of a television. No matter how persuasive the advertising, the man is not going to go for it.

Paper money, on the other hand, barely needs encouragement. Start up the presses! Lower the interest rate! Relax reserve requirements and lending standards! Sell more bonds! Create more paper! Paper money is ready to go along with anything. Like George W. Bush, it never met a boondoggle it didn’t like. Sooner or later, it ends up as worthless as the projects it was meant to pay for.

Gold is merely the subversive investor’s way of protecting himself.


Regards,

Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin
for The Daily Reckoning


----------------------------------------------------------------------


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higher knowledge starts here


Edited by Asante (10/20/06 04:58 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #6191862 - 10/20/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I want gold but don't have the money to invest. Is there a risk-free evalution package where I can sample the interest rates for myself?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Disco Cat] * 1
    #6541207 - 02/07/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Is there a risk-free evalution package where I can sample the interest rates for myself?





Back in the time when this thread was all the thing, gold was about $600/troy ounce. Now, 5 months later, it was at $655 only yesterday. If you had bought 11 bullion coins then, you now could've sold 10 to get your money back, and the one coin you kept would've been pure profit, whether we're speaking of a $50 Australian Dragon of 1/20oz, or a $6.700 bar of 10oz. Over 9% profit in 5 months, not bad I'd say!


Here's some eyecandy I made, showing the most common kinds of bullion coins.
I hope this bump gets the thread going again!




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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Corporal Kielbasa] * 1
    #7518491 - 10/15/07 06:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

We are now about a year after this thread got on a roll, and had a few threads follow in its wake.
Time to make up the balance so far between October 2006 and October 2007.


GOLD $600/oz --> $755/oz = +25.8%

and in euros:

GOLD E482 --> E532 = +10.4%


This means that our more adventurous Americans who had the means to invest some in Gold are laughing now, as they turned every $100 into $126, which is about the same gain in one year as their dollars would have made on a bank account in a decade.

Even the Euro goldbugs have seen a 10% increase, which is pretty damn decent.

But what you see in the discrepancy is downright appalling for our American friends and their Dollar.

If you were to compare the euro and the dollar in this triangle and consider gold to be the product one wishes to buy, purchasing power of the Dollar has dropped two and a half times as fast as that of the euro.

But the euro has declined too.

If you listen to the european central bank and take their word as Gospel, then inflation in the EU has been 2.5%, with 2% being a goal.

If you take this figure to the dollar, using gold as a reference, then one cannot escape the shocking conclusion that

Inflation in the USA is at least 6.25%

which happens to be well into the range the "tinfoil hat crew" says it really is.

If you listen it informal sources in the EU then they say the true inflation in the EU is closer to 4%. If you take this to the dollar then true inflation in the USA might be as high as 10% which is exactly as high as www.shadowstats.com calculates the US inflation to be:

Quote:

April 2007 Edition - May. 7, 2007
.
April Payroll Contraction Appears to Have Been Masked / M3 Growth Surges to 9-11 Liquefaction Levels and Worse / Mounting Inflationary Recession Has Hobbled Fed / Intensifying Dollar Sell-Off and Gold Boom Loom / Knees would be knocking audibly in the credit markets, if the Fed still reported M3 growth. Annual growth (SGS Ongoing M3 series) accelerated sharply in April to 12.9%, from 11.7% in March. The last time annual M3 growth approached 13%, the Fed was liquefying the financial system in the wake of the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Before that, the year was 1981 and official annual CPI inflation was running about 10%. If 10% inflation sounds familiar, that is roughly the level of annual CPI inflation that would be reported today using the CPI methodologies of 1980. Exacerbating the financial catastrophe that slowly is unfolding for the U.S. markets, the economy is in a deepening recession and the U.S. dollar has begun suffering nascent selling pressures. In terms of monthly averages, gold already is at an all-time high, and the trade-weighted dollar is at an all-time low. Out of touch with reality, the Dow Jones Industrial Average keeps bouncing to new highs.





So I'm sorry to say we told you so, but we told you so.


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Offlineskydog
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7518636 - 10/15/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, you guys are good. :respect:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: skydog] * 1
    #7519694 - 10/15/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks, but we're not "good" or in any way amazing :smirk:

What we did is pick up a lead and then simply sat down and googled out the facts. You don't have to be an expert (I certainly am not) but you can gather a lot of facts and factoids via the internet.

*inserts a snippet from my "decline of the dollar" thread*

Here's a table I made with some websearching that shows the price of gold in US dollars and Euros per troy ounce, as they were at the PM fix of this 15 October for the past five years. I also included the conversion factor that on that day existed between dollars and euros, and finally the alleged Euro-zone inflation of January of each of those years. Please note that the REAL inflation in the Euro zone is probably much higher.

Quote:

PM London Fix, October 15 2002-2007

Year - $/oz -- E/oz - $/E ----------Eurozone Inflation
2002 - $316 - E322 - 1.01937 EUR --- 2.7%
2003 - $374 - $321 - 0.858222 EUR -- 2.2%
2004 - $421 - E337 - 0.80141 EUR --- 1.6%
2005 - $469 - E388 - 0.828295 EUR -- 1.9%
2006 - $592 - E473 - 0.79885 EUR --- 2.4%
2007 - $758 - E533 - 0.703433 EUR -- 1.8%





It is immediately apparent that gold is going up for the past 5 years, but also that the dollar is going down relative to gold and the euro.

The Dollar used to be worth more than the 2002 Euro, but now it is 70% of what is LEFT of the Euro. (which according to one of my sources is a five-year decline of about 57% for the dollar and 40% for the euro, but thats from the :tinfoil: squad)

If you believe the boys at Eurostat then in those five years the Euro declined a mere 15%, which would make the dollar's decline over the same time period about 40%, as the 2007 dollar today is worth 70% of 85% of the 2002 Euro.


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higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7587990 - 11/02/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Gold just closed at $806.80 per ounce :yesnod:

$900 here we come. The Cheuvreux Gold Report raised some eyebrows back at when gold was at $600, but past the $800 mark its promise of $900 is closer than ever.

And there's more action yet this year.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] * 1
    #7588012 - 11/02/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elsig said:
I collect gold, have done so for nearly 15 years. I collect anything that is gold and get it melted into small goldbars, mostly jewlery and stuff. Its a hobby I really enjoy and I have yet to sell one gram of gold. sometimes i have cannabis or some other things people want and I trade for anything in gold. my colection is worth quite a bit, not sure how much, i dont follow the gold prices.




Isn't the gold in jewlrey pretty impure though? How do you get it down to pure?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Buying gold [Re: BrAiN] * 1
    #7829562 - 01/03/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis gold was at $600 per tory ounce. Today the same ounce fetches $865.





Cheers to all who are in, Happy New Year and may 2008 shatter the 1980 all time high of $875 and leave it in the dust.

$1.500 Gold FTW!


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OnlinegeokillsA
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] * 1
    #7829641 - 01/03/08 09:21 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis (particularly post #6087077), GOOGLE was around $400 per share. Today the same share fetches around $700.



Unfortunately, I also suggested in post #6087472 that you should have sold it at $500.
Fortunately for me, I didn't follow that last piece of advice and still own it!

I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #7830876 - 01/04/08 07:08 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.





I was thinking of those 2 companies exactly, both have been expanding greatly in the last past years. I just wish I had known about the ipod revolution and invested in Apple 5 years ago! Intel looks like a sound investment too, me thinks.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Buying gold [Re: geokills] * 1
    #7831575 - 01/04/08 11:05 AM (16 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
15 months ago when this thread saw its genesis (particularly post #6087077), GOOGLE was around $400 per share. Today the same share fetches around $700.



Unfortunately, I also suggested in post #6087472 that you should have sold it at $500.
Fortunately for me, I didn't follow that last piece of advice and still own it!

I maintain that Google is a solid investment, and currently
split my tech sector exposure equally between Google and Apple.






Shit.. think about the people who bought the IPO... fucking RICH


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Offline0xYg3n
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Scott Bennett] * 1
    #8156138 - 03/17/08 03:57 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I bet you could find some of the net.


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Offline0xYg3n
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Re: Buying gold [Re: Scott Bennett] * 1
    #8156149 - 03/17/08 04:27 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Start digging...


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