|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6091192 - 09/22/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poster: Wiccan_Seeker Subject: Re: Buying gold
I've been looking into this some more, and the more I did, the more I became charmed by the 1oz Gold Maple Leaf bullion coin.
Nice coin but do yourself a favor and buy it in Palladium. Gold is too plentiful, too much in European banks just waiting to be sold. Palladium is the real deal and the 1 oz. Maple Leaf is the way to go.
If you do like gold coins with good potential for numismatic/collector appreciation, check out the Lunar Series (OK I may be a little biased) of the Australian mint. Buy only the 1 oz. gold coins as these have limited mintages of 30,000 coins per year. It is a 12 year series of animals starting in 1996 and 2007 is the last year. China is hosting the 2008 Olympics so anything associated with China will be in hot demand. As coins get maxed out on mintages the value goes up because once 30,000 are minted for any given year they stop minting any more of that year. The 2000 Dragons, 2002 Horses and 2001 Snakes are already maxed out on mintage and are above the price of the others. Dragons at $900 each now! 1998 Tigers may be a good speculation as to maxing out and being a good demand coin and don't currently carry premium above the other years. Check out onlygold.com if you can afford 10 coins or apmex.com if not.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (09/22/06 06:26 PM)
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
|
Quote:
That was a good post. Thanks for being into this!
Hey no problem, it's nice to really bite down into this because its quite an interesting issue. Its sad that only a few people partake in this thread, because it can prove to be quite important in the near future.
At the moment in the US inflation hovers around 3% for a few years. If you realistically look at it in light of current events then its probable that this will get worse, but lets say it doesn't
Lets say you have $2.000 lying around thats of little use.
You keep $1.000 on the side as ten $100 bills.
The other $1.000 you invest, buying 1 Gold Maple Leaf coin and 20 Silver Panda coins, all being troy ounces of either metal.
Lets say the prices of gold and silver won't do jack for 14 years.
In 2020 you open your treasure trove. Alas! your $1.000 in dollar bills now only is worth HALF of what it was. Thats the result of inflation as seen from 2000 to present. Your maple leaf and pandas however are still worth their full $1.000 and because they now are 14 year old coins, they have inevitably gained additional collectors value if you take them to a coin collector rather than the bank.
The paper money never has been worth anything, it takes ten cents to print your ten bills. Your other stash however are vintage quality coins stamped on their worth in gold or silver. Quite a difference.
Its scary not to rely on banks, but then again its scarier that your savings are nothing more than numbers in a computer or on a piece of paper, like they are now.
They can say your dollar is worth twenty cents, but gold will always be gold and silver always be silver.
China and India, two billion people, are getting wealthier and wealthier, and their women will inevitably suffer an increasing hunger for gold jewelry. There is NO metal which conducts electricity better at ambient temperatures than silver, so high tech will gobble up more and more of it. A case can be made for assuming gold and silver will go up in the coming decade or so.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6091347 - 09/22/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Your maple leaf and pandas however are still worth their full $1.000 and because they now are 14 year old coins, they have inevitably gained additional collectors value if you take them to a coin collector rather than the bank.
Your bullion coin maple leaf even at 14 years old has probably gained very little collectors value. Too many of them and the coin design doesn't change. I suggest the Australian Perth Mint Lunar series 1998 Tiger at $ 626 each which has 1 ounce of 99.99% gold and real collector value increase potential versus the 2006 Canadian Maple leaf at $ 617 each. Spend the extra $ 9 now and down the road you will likely be rewarded many times over. People in China and India use the coins for jewelry and collect them as well.
Having said that silver is by far the better long term play than gold. 100 ounce bars at spot + 25 cents is a far cheaper way to own silver than buying Chinese Pandas or any other silver coin. They have high markups. The best coin to buy is by far the American Eagle and if you have the money check out the 500 coin sealed tub of brilliant uncirculated coins from the U.S. Mint. Beautiful coins with some collectibility and the sealed tub just assures you will be paid for BU condition down the road. Or if the shit hits the fan they will be great for exchange and no questions asked as to silver content or purity. 1 ounce silver and it's pure.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (09/22/06 07:24 PM)
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
|
BUMP!

If gold goes up 5%, this pile secures you a year's income. Better yet: if you bought this pile in the year 2000 and sold it in 2006, you would have made a profit of about 2.7 million dollars.
Quote:
Your bullion coin maple leaf even at 14 years old has probably gained very little collectors value. Too many of them and the coin design doesn't change.
You're right, I was primarily referring to the Silver Panda.
Quote:
I suggest the Australian Perth Mint Lunar series 1998 Tiger at $ 626 each which has 1 ounce of 99.99% gold and real collector value increase potential

Looks very good. The Dragon is the most sought after coin, looking like this:

and has in 6 years already increased a full 1.5 times in collectors value. Had you bought in 2000 and sold in 2006, the 1.5x collectors value increase would have added to the 2x gold price increase, meaning you literally would have turned $1 into $3.
If you were wealthy enough to buy onlygold.com's 10 coin minimum order, that would be a $3.000 buy, $9.000 sell kind of deal 
Quote:
100 ounce bars at spot + 25 cents is a far cheaper way to own silver than buying Chinese Pandas or any other silver coin. They have high markups.
If you buy sharp, Silver Pandas cost 1.5x their value in silver, which is a high markup, but Silver Pandas age well, typically doubling in collectors value in a few years, separately from the silver price.
Silver bars and ingots are the way to go if you want to approach the silver price closest, but they lack collectors value.
Quote:
The best coin to buy is by far the American Eagle
If you live in America, yes, but foreign buyers might not appreciate the US stampings, just like that's a risk when buying Chinese pandas: if a superpower regime becomes internationally unpopular for political reasons, collectors value of your coins might be negatively affected. Gold Kruger Rand's likewise might suffer the negative South Africa image, especially those minted during the Apartheid years.
Canadian and Australian coins carry less political risk in that aspect than American, South African and Chinese coins.
We here in Holland have our historic "gouden tientje"http://files.shroomery.org/files/06-39/919693424-gouden_tientje.jpg>
This coin goes for about $110 if you buy sharp, but the problem with it is that it is not a 24 carat (99.99% pure) coin, which is the "fine gold" standard, but rather only is 90% pure. A lower purity of gold means that should you sell it for the gold price, you will get less money per gram of contained gold. On top of that its collectors value is limited, typically only attracting people from Holland or our former colonies.
It is interesting to know that if you had saved a gouden tientje and a ten gulden bill in 1933 and would exchange it now, the gold coin would fetch about two hundred times more than the bill would on gold price alone, inflation corrected, being an average annual 2.63% value increase throughout 76 years, which is as good as a bank, but which actually was more valuable at times of economic need.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6098036 - 09/25/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
So if you had the option to by lets say 10,000 wurth for an invesment/security what would you do?
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
|
Quote:
So if you had the option to by lets say 10,000 wurth for an invesment/security what would you do?
If I had $10.000 to invest, I would obey to the unwritten rule that you best should invest 10-20% of your capital into precious metals. The US government for instance has 16% of its capital backed with gold.
If you go a tad higher on the precious metals, you could decide to go for a wee bit less than $2.500 worth of precious metals split roughly down the middle to buy for instance 2 gold maple leaf coins and 3 one-kg bars of silver bullion. This gives you the luxury to sell only a part of either supply in case a moderately favorable opportunity or unexpected need arises.
Next stop could be a ten year Dutch (or equally stable) state obligation for an additional $2.500, which at the moment is securer than a bank and fetches a guaranteed 4+% annual interest. This is another redundent safety measure, it is *very* unlikely something will go south with that one so that move will assure $2.500-->$3.500 which, inflation corrected for our usual 2% inflation will be worth $2.900 of the original value instead of $2.000 if you leave it catching dust.
With these redundencies in place you might then invest $2.500 in lower-risk investments and $2.500 in higher risk/higher profit ones.
This is a crudely cut pie but without looking into it too much it seems like a reasonable strategy.
Do keep in mind hidden cost, like renting a box at a bank to store those valuables.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙


Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,417
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 2 minutes, 19 seconds
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6098116 - 09/25/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Good advice
--------------------
-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
|
TheSlapnCapn
Slappin' thangs.


Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 2,138
Loc: zee mountain state
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6098151 - 09/25/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
So my question is: if things really go south... people starving and whatnot... why is gold even going to matter?
Gold is a decoration. Somebody, somewhere, sometime decided it had real world value for people's survival. This seems silly to me.
If things go south... really south... I'd want a farm.
Maybe I'm just a dumb hippy... but hoarding fresh water, canned vegetables and salted meat and planting some trees so there's still wood left to burn seems like a better survival strategy for the shitstorm that's been brewing up in this new world order...
Am I a fool to think that the world economy is an illusion that some mastermind has fucked us all into believing?
When it really comes down to it... do you want to be stuck with a pile of shiny metal or a pile of calories, hydration, and warmth?
And what really gets me is that they planned it so well that I can SEE the true priorities right in front of my face, but I'm still playing their game of Global Monopoly.
Anyhow...I'm not trying to preach. I'm actually wanting to find a good reason to continue playing their game, because it seems pretty fucked to me. I guess I just woke up one morning and realized I was born into a well-disguised form of slavery... so if anyone could either affirm my beliefs or explain to me why I'm an idiot I would seriously be thankful.
This is a really thought provoking thread by the way... i think we may need that economics forum.
-j
-------------------- I promise to live, love, exist, and be, and hope that all life will love to be in existence with me. Also, fuck you. -j
|
geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙


Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,417
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 2 minutes, 19 seconds
|
|
> if things really go south... why is gold even going to matter?
It will matter because it is a valuable tool for bartering due to its scarcity and undeniable desireability. Obviously it is only a means to an end, but this is important. Afterall, while ultimately we will need the food, water, and warmth more than a piece of metal.. gold has longevity and is not nearly as perishable. Therefore, it can be used as a means to acquire the necessary food, water and warmth for survival (or the components to conjour such substances yourself).
> Am I a fool to think that the world economy is an illusion that some mastermind has fucked us all into believing?
While the world economy does seem to be an abstract process, with value based soley upon perception, the same could be said for our entire existance, our loves, our dislikes, and everything in between. I don't think you're an idiot - I think you are consciously aware that much of what we live for and base our lives around, is just a complex system created by and for humans. This in turn means that we could just as easily destroy the system! So yes, of course if the shit hits the fan, you'll want necessities for life (namely food and water), as well as the means to protect these valuable assets, more than you'll want a hunk of metal.
But when it comes down to it, it is difficult to effectively hoard a lifetime supply of food and water for your family, and this is where trade comes into play. Trade has been used throughout all of recorded history (and very likely long before that). Gold itself has always been held as a valuable commodity for trade in the world's recorded history... even though as I noted above, all paper based money has devalued or simply ceased to carry ANY value whatsoever over time. Therefore, there is indeed something special about gold - not to say that it is impervious to devaluation - but if the world did flip upside down overnight, I believe gold would still be held as a very valuable resource for trade, one of a very select few... just as it has for as long as present day humans have ever known!
--------------------
-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
|
Scott Bennett
Lucrative


Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 17,730
Loc: Toronto
|
Re: Buying gold *DELETED* [Re: Asante] 1
#6098633 - 09/25/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by ThaiLipaYaiReason for deletion: .
--------------------
It's just some nights, you really want to go out, get some hot bitch to dump Goose down your throat and snort coke off a stripper's tits.
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
|
Thanks for the approval of the spread-investment idea Geokills, it seemed sane but I'm glad it seems that way to you too.
Quote:
When it really comes down to it... do you want to be stuck with a pile of shiny metal or a pile of calories, hydration, and warmth?
I'm 300 lbs. Being stuck with a pile of calories is overrated 
Quote:
So my question is: if things really go south... people starving and whatnot... why is gold even going to matter?
Even if Bush goes nuts and pushes the button, and Russia retaliates, there'll at least for a long while be 3-4 billion survivors. Even with a sudden holocaust like that, people will not starve equally. There'll be haves and have nots, and if all your wealth amounts to pieces of paper and numbers in a computer, you'll be a have not. In that unlikely postapocalyptic world, guns and gold will be of great importance, and gold has a fair chance to buy you protection, and a gold maple leaf might get you that last place on the evac helicopter more than your good looks will 
Think of that movie Schindler's List: even in nazi germany Oskar Schindler could save the hundreds of Jewish families that worked for him, not through bold and cunning heroics but through the use of hard cash money. When the train with the wives of his factory workers took a wrong turn, it was cash money which enabled him to buy their freedom right out of the jaws of Auschwitz. He bought their freedom and these Jewish wives and children got back on the train, and rode out of the fully operational concentration camp. The reichsmark was a stable currency, but when it was not, hard liquid capital like gold would buy him the barter items and diamonds he needed to fulfil his destiny.
If you look at the Great Depression, you see sad stories of rich and average people losing their posessions, harvesting the inner doors and woodwork of their houses for firewood and finally end up homeless. If they had substantial capital backed by their own precious metal reserve then they could have gotten by well, or even made a killing financially.
Quote:
If things go south... really south... I'd want a farm.
If you look at that statement the capitalist way, you're saying you'd rather invest in real estate And you should! Real estate ia a very good investment! But, you cannot take it with you. You can easily stuff your coat pockets with $50.000 in gold maple leafs, and if you look at diamonds, you can easily swallow 10 peasized diamonds of 5 carats each, and no metal detector or airport x-ray machine will reveal that you've got a million dollars on you 
Quote:
Where do you suggest purchasing these coins?
Anywhere, with a preference for physical shops you can visit and view your purchase before buying. Online shops might well be scams, and would definitely require transportation insurance, and would have to be a trusted source.
That onlygold.com website that was recommended to us looks solid, except their minimum order is 10 troy ounces. If you safeguard your investment money with 10-20% precious metals, and let half of them be gold, the 10 troz minimum would assume the reader's got $60.000-$120.000 free for investment, which is a tad unrealistic to assume.
Any store that actually gets you the goods as close to the current gold and silver prices as possible would be good. With bullion coins as well as with silver bars it is important to buy internationally recognised brands, these bars often have the inscriptions "999 pure" "melter assayer" and the weight of the bar. A good brand for gold or silver bars would be Credit Suisse, who are said to be among the best priced and bestlooking bars in the trade.
With gold you should always go for bullion coins, even if that means thousands of them, because you can rid yourself of them far more readily than, say, 12.5kg bars. Many people and even small businesses simply don't have that kind of money ($225.000) immediately available, coins allow for buying and selling closer to your needs, and either the 12.5kg bar or the 400 coins fit in one suitcase anyway.
If you buy an off-brand or odd-weight bar, you might have to have your bars tested before you can sell them, which ofcourse is wasteful. At the moment 1 gold maple leaf/panda = 2 bars of 1kg silver each.
Some banks, like the Swiss banks, offer a very convenient system where you can walk in, buy your bars and bullion coins with cash or plastic and then take them to your box in the vault, all the while within the safety of the bank. If you can get that kind of deal then go for it, don't expose a significant investment to needless transport, or uninsured storage.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (09/25/06 04:56 PM)
|
elsig
Knowledgespeaks, wisdom listens



Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 533
Loc: the beach
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6099255 - 09/25/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
i just checked for the first time how much money my gold is worth and its around 6400 euros, thats not too bad
this post has inspired me to collect even more gold lol great post
|
Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] 1
#6104896 - 09/26/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Here's an article a friend sent me.
Stay Focused on Gold's Major Trend
|
Cubes_N_Gravey
Godzilla


Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Wachin you through my com...
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
|
|
Quote:
Corporal Kielbasa said:
Who is to say something won't happen. unless we clean up our act, shit will hit the fan. our president has no ethical motives other then his own. he is breaking international laws of the geneva convention type. He is trying to get another war started before november. When will the world say enough is enough?
well we cant say enough is enough, just as in south park were just a tv show and the earth will be bombed by big gay aliens. we gotta keep the violence up or were off the air..... nah im a dick im just messin aroun i tottaly agree with you
-------------------- Huh peanutbutter and bannanas? nooo thats a peanutbutter and mushie sandwich
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: elsig] 1
#6149611 - 10/09/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
You're an invester and you are forced to make the following choices:
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
goobler
Reanimated



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 48,909
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6149642 - 10/09/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
what type of investor? futures? are we buying metals as a porfolio and not options?
metal will always go up you just need to wait, so what type of buys are you talking about?
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: goobler] 1
#6150030 - 10/09/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
what type of investor? futures? are we buying metals as a porfolio and not options?
I decided to leave it open for a more natural response 
Goobler, what do you think about the whole gold/silver thing? Do you believe in the whole bullmarket/$1.000+ per troz deal?
Given the choice between gold and silver, what would you be heavier in?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6150150 - 10/09/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I said buy, But i would probably buy more of some and less of others. If it went up, i would sell some to buy some more. If it went real low i would buy as much as possible.
I would use most of it as a security as an extra peace of me "net wurth" But if i could buy hold on and sell and make a few i would be happy to do so.
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,794
|
|
Quote:
If it went real low i would buy as much as possible.
It would be rich and creamy if this were 2001, and we knew then what we know now. big congratulations to anyone who hopped on board then. In 2001 I was too busy smoking pot to heed the gold trends. Ack
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
|
Re: Buying gold [Re: Asante] 1
#6150246 - 10/09/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
But the question is... are we smoking pot right now instead of hopping on the bus to richville....
|
|