Home | Community | Message Board

Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly?
    #6083500 - 09/20/06 08:44 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Text of Hugo Chavez speech at U.N. UN General Assembly


CHAVEZ (through translator):

"Representatives of the governments of the world, good morning to all of you. First of all, I would like to invite you, very respectfully, to those who have not read this book, to read it. Noam Chomsky, one of the most prestigious American and world intellectuals, Noam Chomsky, and this is one of his most recent books, 'Hegemony or Survival: The Imperialist Strategy of the United States.'"

[Holds up book, waves it in front of General Assembly.]

"It's an excellent book to help us understand what has been happening in the world throughout the 20th century, and what's happening now, and the greatest threat looming over our planet. The hegemonic pretensions of the American empire are placing at risk the very survival of the human species. We continue to warn you about this danger and we appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our heads. I had considered reading from this book, but, for the sake of time," [flips through the pages, which are numerous] "I will just leave it as a recommendation.

It reads easily, it is a very good book, I'm sure Madame :president: you are familiar with it. It appears in English, in Russian, in Arabic, in German. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is right in their own house. The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself]

"And it smells of sulfur still today."

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.

The world parent's statement – cynical, hypocritical, full of this imperial hypocrisy from the need they have to control everything.

They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.

What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.

What type of democracy do you impose with marines and bombs?

The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."

Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother – he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.

I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare because the rest of us are standing up, all those who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations.

Yes, you can call us extremists, but we are rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.

The president then – and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."

That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.

But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.

It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela – new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?

He spoke to the people of Lebanon. Many of you, he said, have seen how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly. The bombs in Beirut with millimetric precision?

This is crossfire? He's thinking of a western, when people would shoot from the hip and somebody would be caught in the crossfire.

This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'

The president of the United States came to talk to the peoples – to the peoples of the world. He came to say – I brought some documents with me, because this morning I was reading some statements, and I see that he talked to the people of Afghanistan, the people of Lebanon, the people of Iran. And he addressed all these peoples directly.

And you can wonder, just as the president of the United States addresses those peoples of the world, what would those peoples of the world tell him if they were given the floor? What would they have to say?

And I think I have some inkling of what the peoples of the south, the oppressed people think. They would say, "Yankee imperialist, go home." I think that is what those people would say if they were given the microphone and if they could speak with one voice to the American imperialists.

And that is why, Madam President, my colleagues, my friends, last year we came here to this same hall as we have been doing for the past eight years, and we said something that has now been confirmed – fully, fully confirmed.

I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system. Let's accept – let's be honest. The U.N. system, born after the Second World War, collapsed. It's worthless.

Oh, yes, it's good to bring us together once a year, see each other, make statements and prepare all kinds of long documents, and listen to good speeches, like Abel's (ph) yesterday, or President Mullah's (ph). Yes, it's good for that.

And there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile.

But we, the assembly, have been turned into a merely deliberative organ. We have no power, no power to make any impact on the terrible situation in the world. And that is why Venezuela once again proposes, here, today, 20 September, that we re-establish the United Nations.

Last year, Madam, we made four modest proposals that we felt to be crucially important. We have to assume the responsibility our heads of state, our ambassadors, our representatives, and we have to discuss it.

The first is expansion, and Mullah (ph) talked about this yesterday right here. The Security Council, both as it has permanent and non-permanent categories, (inaudible) developing countries and LDCs must be given access as new permanent members. That's step one.

Second, effective methods to address and resolve world conflicts, transparent decisions.

Point three, the immediate suppression – and that is something everyone's calling for – of the anti-democratic mechanism known as the veto, the veto on decisions of the Security Council.

Let me give you a recent example. The immoral veto of the United States allowed the Israelis, with impunity, to destroy Lebanon. Right in front of all of us as we stood there watching, a resolution in the council was prevented.

Fourthly, we have to strengthen, as we've always said, the role and the powers of the secretary general of the United Nations.

Yesterday, the secretary general practically gave us his speech of farewell. And he recognized that over the last 10 years, things have just gotten more complicated; hunger, poverty, violence, human rights violations have just worsened. That is the tremendous consequence of the collapse of the United Nations system and American hegemonistic pretensions.

Madam, Venezuela a few years ago decided to wage this battle within the United Nations by recognizing the United Nations, as members of it that we are, and lending it our voice, our thinking.

Our voice is an independent voice to represent the dignity and the search for peace and the reformulation of the international system; to denounce persecution and aggression of hegemonistic forces on the planet.

This is how Venezuela has presented itself. Bolivar's home has sought a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council.

Let's see. Well, there's been an open attack by the U.S. government, an immoral attack, to try and prevent Venezuela from being freely elected to a post in the Security Council.

The imperium is afraid of truth, is afraid of independent voices. It calls us extremists, but they are the extremists.

And I would like to thank all the countries that have kindly announced their support for Venezuela, even though the ballot is a secret one and there's no need to announce things.

But since the imperium has attacked, openly, they strengthened the convictions of many countries. And their support strengthens us.

Mercosur, as a bloc, has expressed its support, our brothers in Mercosur. Venezuela, with Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, is a full member of Mercosur.

And many other Latin American countries, CARICOM, Bolivia have expressed their support for Venezuela. The Arab League, the full Arab League has voiced its support. And I am immensely grateful to the Arab world, to our Arab brothers, our Caribbean brothers, the African Union. Almost all of Africa has expressed its support for Venezuela and countries such as Russia or China and many others.

I thank you all warmly on behalf of Venezuela, on behalf of our people, and on behalf of the truth, because Venezuela, with a seat on the Security Council, will be expressing not only Venezuela's thoughts, but it will also be the voice of all the peoples of the world, and we will defend dignity and truth.

Over and above all of this, Madam President, I think there are reasons to be optimistic. A poet would have said "helplessly optimistic," because over and above the wars and the bombs and the aggressive and the preventive war and the destruction of entire peoples, one can see that a new era is dawning.

As Sylvia Rodriguez (ph) says, the era is giving birth to a heart. There are alternative ways of thinking. There are young people who think differently. And this has already been seen within the space of a mere decade. It was shown that the end of history was a totally false assumption, and the same was shown about Pax Americana and the establishment of the capitalist neo-liberal world. It has been shown, this system, to generate mere poverty. Who believes in it now?

What we now have to do is define the future of the world. Dawn is breaking out all over. You can see it in Africa and Europe and Latin America and Oceanea. I want to emphasize that optimistic vision.

We have to strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle, our awareness. We have to build a new and better world.

Venezuela joins that struggle, and that's why we are threatened. The U.S. has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere.

President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.

And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.

And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.

Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.

We mentioned Cuba. Yes, we were just there a few days ago. We just came from there happily.

And there you see another era born. The Summit of the 15, the Summit of the Nonaligned, adopted a historic resolution. This is the outcome document. Don't worry, I'm not going to read it.

But you have a whole set of resolutions here that were adopted after open debate in a transparent matter – more than 50 heads of state. Havana was the capital of the south for a few weeks, and we have now launched, once again, the group of the nonaligned with new momentum.

And if there is anything I could ask all of you here, my companions, my brothers and sisters, it is to please lend your good will to lend momentum to the Nonaligned Movement for the birth of the new era, to prevent hegemony and prevent further advances of imperialism.

And as you know, Fidel Castro is the president of the nonaligned for the next three years, and we can trust him to lead the charge very efficiently.

Unfortunately they thought, "Oh, Fidel was going to die." But they're going to be disappointed because he didn't. And he's not only alive, he's back in his green fatigues, and he's now presiding the nonaligned.

So, my dear colleagues, Madam President, a new, strong movement has been born, a movement of the south. We are men and women of the south.

With this document, with these ideas, with these criticisms, I'm now closing my file. I'm taking the book with me. And, don't forget, I'm recommending it very warmly and very humbly to all of you.

We want ideas to save our planet, to save the planet from the imperialist threat. And hopefully in this very century, in not too long a time, we will see this, we will see this new era, and for our children and our grandchildren a world of peace based on the fundamental principles of the United Nations, but a renewed United Nations.

And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.

You know that my personal doctor had to stay in the plane. The chief of security had to be left in a locked plane. Neither of these gentlemen was allowed to arrive and attend the U.N. meeting. This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the Devil. It smells of sulfur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all.

May God bless us all. Good day to you.

(APPLAUSE)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6084471 - 09/20/06 11:52 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

i wonder if its possible to get politcal assylum in venezuela??...and BTW..theres already a thread on this topic ..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6081858/an/0/page/0


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6084497 - 09/20/06 11:56 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

I just think he should open up more and express his true feelings.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6084868 - 09/21/06 01:07 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Was there really an applause at the General Assembly?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: zorbman]
    #6085289 - 09/21/06 03:09 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
I just think he should open up more and express his true feelings.




Yes, ya really did get that feeling like he was holding back on what he really wanted to say didn't ya? :lol:

His speech reads more like a political comedy roast, not a General Assembly speech on the geopolitical concerns of the worlds national leaders.  :jawdrop:

Yes Bass, all the reports I have been reading say Chavez's speech was met with an uproar of applause.

I think that uproar of applause from global leaders should concern us U.S. citizens more then what Chavez had to say. Weather he is right or wrong, they apparently really liked and appreciated what he had to say.

Times are a changin!!!

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMicrocosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Male

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6085977 - 09/21/06 12:30 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

I want my "Bush is the Devil!" t-shirt!!


--------------------
:orly:



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6086235 - 09/21/06 01:59 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

GOP Funds Ahmadinejad-Chavez Speaking Tour
by Scott Ott

(2006-09-21) — The Republican National Committee (RNC) today offered to fund a coast-to-coast U.S. speaking tour featuring Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, in the weeks leading up to November’s Congressional elections.

The offer comes in the wake of two days of public remarks by the two foreign leaders before the United Nations, the Council on Foreign Relations and U.S. news media. Their diplomatic pronouncements included…
– denying the Holocaust,
– calling the U.S. president “the devil“,
– praying at the U.N. for the return of Islam’s fabled 12th Imam,
– praising Cuban dictator Fidel Castro,
– insisting any nation has the right to develop nuclear technology,
– portraying the United States as the locus of evil in the modern world, and
– plugging Noam Chomsky’s book “Hegemony or Survival: America’s Quest for Global Dominance.”

“President Bush can talk about his national security plan and foreign policy all day long,” said an unnamed RNC spokesman, “But no one makes a more compelling case than the duo of Mahmoud and Hugo. We want to make sure every American has an opportunity to hear these important world leaders.”

The Republican source said sponsoring the pre-election Ahmadinejad-Chavez speaking tour was also a way of “reaching across the aisle to help our colleagues in the Democrat party to get their message out, so the American voter can make an informed decision.”



http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2336



Phred


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6086308 - 09/21/06 02:21 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I think that uproar of applause from global leaders should concern us U.S. citizens more then what Chavez had to say. Weather he is right or wrong, they apparently really liked and appreciated what he had to say.

Times are a changin!!!




I really don't feel too concerned about applause for Chavez at the UN.

Think about how few nations at the UN actually matter, and what their reactions were. We know that China and India aren't coming out with huge displays or support, so that's 1/3 of humanity down. We also know that Chavez scares European leaders almost as much as he scares the US, and we know that Brazil's government wishes he would just go away.

See, the real problem with applause at the UN is the whole "one-country, one-delegate" rule. When you have a meeting of the General Assembly, then you have over 180 delegates present (the observers also get to sit in at the GA), and basically 120 of them are from countries that the US never needs to really care about. So what is Seychelles, Mauritious, or the Federated States of Micronesia are all vehement Chavez supporters? Does it really matter?

Personally, I feel very bad for the people of Venezuela, and I feel very bad for the people who try to follow his example (like Bolivia). We've seen time and time again what happens when a government decides to move towards extreme socialism, and it's never pretty. We already know that shortages of basic goods have started occuring in Venezuela, along with some losses in infrastructure. (you can read about it here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4599260.stm )

Basically, at Chavez's current clip, he probably has another 2 decades, at most, until Venezuela collapses under his ridiculous market controls, ever increasing military spending, and unsustainable social programs. It'll be like our own little "post-Soviet Russia" in the middle of South America. What's worse is that he's now getting other nations to follow him down. Bolivia probably won't turn out much better, and we all know Cuba's not going to recover in the near future.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6086776 - 09/21/06 04:02 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

If we attack Iran next and WW3 breaks out, can we feel so sure about who is going to side with us?

Tides turn quickly, ESPECIALLY, if Chavez succeeds at convincing other Nations the White house is looking to establish a one world order with themselves at the head of it and he is the "evil doer". (That expression sounds so corny coming out of our presidents mouth. I wish he would stop using it :tongue:)

If we end up initiating WW3 in the next 3 years, by invading Iran next, who knows how many current allies will turn on the U.S.?

How many countries can we be at war with at once and sustain ourselves until someone in the U.S. goes for another Hiroshima maneuver to get a handle on a potential global scale mess we launched.

I wouldn't feel at all concerned about the uproar of applause for Chavez's speech, if Bush wasn't threatening to invade Iran next.

Do you happen to know who currently supports Bush in an invasion of Iran? I don't know myself, but I don't like seeing support for the U.S. wain so much, that it's now, not only being made a mockery of at a U.N. General Assembly meeting, but that it garnered an uproar of applause as well.

Bush needs to cool his jets. Bush may be digging the U.S. into a hole deeper then it will be able to get itself out of.

Looking at the little nations from just an ecconomic perspective, sure, they have little power in that area. The little Nations of no concern, become one if it comes to WW3. Little Vietnam kicked our ass.

Venezuela and Iran, have oil money they can fund little Nations with in a world war against us. The little nations won't be too concerned about following Geneva Convention Laws of war ethics either.

Bush may have the blinders on wanting to keep Iran from being able to nuke Israel, and that may be very noble of him. I don't think he is able to see how tides are turning against us outside of his tunnel vision in the process.

Economist, would you, give a 5 years projection for us of global affairs if Bush invades Iran next? I'd like to see things how you are seeing them potentially going down. I gave a worst case scenario(better for trouble shooting preparations ahead of time if I need to cash out and head for the islands :lol: I hope for the best though). Give us a best case scenario if we invade Iran next, keeping it as close to realistic as possible.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,790
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6086989 - 09/21/06 05:02 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

This guy is a nutjob, however he could be a dangerous.....we will see.....like I stated before, look for closer ties with China:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5995291/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6087033 - 09/21/06 05:11 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

To begin with, the US is not going to launch a ground invasion of Iran.

The goal of a war with Iran will be to destroy their capacity to continue enriching uranium, will be fought entirely from the air, and will result in a US victory. Iran's ability to produce aircraft is still in its infancy, with most of their airforce still dependent on left-over Soviet fighters. Even the craft they can produce have notable limitations (based on older reverse-engineered US technology, speculated to only be capable of sub-sonic speeds).

If Iran was to somehow retaliate against US forces in Iraq or Afghanistan this would be problematic in one of two ways:

First, if Iran starts bombing/shelling/firing missiles into Iraq or Afghanistan they are going to begin losing the support of the population as civilian casualties mount.

Second, the US military on the ground, with superior air support, will overcome regular Iranian forces.

So, the only alternative would be for Iran to continue supporting and sponsoring insurgency and/or terrorism. However, as we have already seen, 3 years of non-stop insurgency have failed to cause outright organized fighting in Iraq, and it's doubtful that somehow organized fighting will spring up, especially if the Iraqi population percieves Iran as having been defeated militarily in an air war.

Finally, I think you are grossly over-estimating the ability of Iran and Venezuela to use petro-dollars to fund anything.

Even if Venezuela was able to seize 100% of the revenue from sales of its oil, which it currently can't because of contracts with foreign oil companies, and the money was combined with all of Iran's oil revenue, we're talking about a sum between $80 billion and $150 billion a year (depending on oil prices, exchange rates, etc.) Meanwhile, as we all know, the US under the Bush administration has been spending between $400 billion and $500 billion for every year in office.

Even under Clinton spending never dipped below $300 billion. At present it's simply impossible for Venezuela and Iran to fund an "alliance of little nations" to do anything against the US.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6087048 - 09/21/06 05:14 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Whatever happens about nuclear war, do not worry for Bush. Dr. Strangelove has build perfect nest for comming days for his family.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6087149 - 09/21/06 05:32 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

im opposed to bush, and I think Chavez has been using that same view against us. While I agree with what he says, and I like what he talks about, he's a fucking actor.

He's got a law in his country that makes it a felony to talk bad about the government, or authority in general. I would prefer Bush over Chavez any day, however thats an unfair choice. If Chavez was running a peaceful country himself, I could see more to his speeches, however his policies are even worse than what we have here, so until that changes his opinions are moot to my ears.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: kotik]
    #6087795 - 09/21/06 08:41 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Hmh, I am neither great fun of Chavez as long as I do not know much about Venezuela. Though, I know something about Croatia and what does it mean when you have corrupted public workers that will sign/do anything for satisfying their lower astral greed personal from US establishment offer.

So, I am rather glad that Croatia did not sign bilateral agreement with US about war crimes issue, as long as that would be way too hypocritical. And when I see these media characters who would do anything to support and excuse US hypocritical proposals, I get rather pissed off.

As long as politics of US for some time has nothing to justice, equality, freedom nor anything that creates dignity in person, but quite contrary. So, I have some sympathy to Muslims as long as US administration has done too many bad things, not to feel pissed off as they are.

So, when Hugo Chavez talked in UN, using the same cheap shots as Bush does in his process of dehumanization of the whole political entities, I have to notice that some little sense of right and justice I felt. It might be people who applauded Hugo might eventually feel the same sensation.

Who knows? All in all, my perspective towards Hugo Chavez was based on my bad feeling against US establishment and the fact that many people feel same way, but they are too afraid to comment anything as long as this sort of commenting used to be digging a grave for politician.

Allende died that way, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto also, Sven Olof Palme also and who know how many more of sometimes really great people who used to be presidents who opposed US doing imperialistic shit around the World? If the hit list on presidents was that big, who knows how many little people did loose their lives because of too big consciousness to stand all that shit? Too many, not to applaud to a person who does not give a fuck for all the terroristic mechanisms "rulers of the world" do.

So, I do applaud to this funny lunatic Chavez. I do not expect his deed will change anything, but that applause maybe will.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6087826 - 09/21/06 08:48 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

PS. US establishment I find not much more corrupted than British, or German, or France, or Russian. The only problem is that this level of corruption with no virtual enemies becomes rather dangerous mixture. Much more dangerous than any lunatic, from Saddam, through Kim Jong-il, to Chavez could ever be thanks to their power position.

So, that is the reason I am neither interested into Izrael conflict (that would not last 5 years if there was no US establishment involved), nor inter-muslim conflicts (that would stay tribe wars in lack of grand common enemy), nor conflicts in Africa, nor anywhere else. There is just no point to be focused on the symptoms when the source of the real problem is rather easily noticed.

And what is the most funny, US establishment makes its people dependent on imperialistic, cancer issues, while in the same time big monopolies destroy free enterprise that built America.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6087860 - 09/21/06 08:59 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:
So, that is the reason I am neither interested into Izrael conflict (that would not last 5 years if there was no US establishment involved), nor inter-muslim conflicts (that would stay tribe wars in lack of grand common enemy), nor conflicts in Africa, nor anywhere else. There is just no point to be focused on the symptoms when the source of the real problem is rather easily noticed.

And what is the most funny, US establishment makes its people dependent on imperialistic, cancer issues, while in the same time big monopolies destroy free enterprise that built America.




What a load of bull.  Yeah, the US is responsible for all the problems everyhere, sure... :rolleyes:

You can go ahead and continue to blame the US for actions they took to oppose the Soviet Union, pretending that the real threat (the Soviets) had nothing to do with it.  You can blame mismanagement by governments the world over on "US Imperialism" instead of the governments that actually make the mistakes.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6087881 - 09/21/06 09:05 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Economist. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand things I write. It is only up to your intelectual dignity are you going to accept them or not. Nothing else, I am affraid.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6087952 - 09/21/06 09:29 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Thanks for sharing a best case scenario if we go into Iran next. I hope you're right and I hope for the best like I said. :sun:

It seems you do equate the ability to defeat an enemy by who has the larger war budget and more expensive war toys I see. Why couldn't the U.S. defeat the little North Vietenmese in the ten years they tried too before coming to a stale mate?

My husband was just telling me that Ted Turner was on the tele last night saying sort of the same thing, something to the effect of, we have all of these Expensive War ships and huge military spending  and can't take out some rebels in Iraq? What a waste of money"

I'm not sure if big war budgets secure quick wins against little scrappers.

Some of these little scrappy Nations/militant groups fight differently then we do and their ignorance (ignoring) of the Geneva Convention Laws can give them untold advantages.  Not to mention, because of their poverty levels, they have crazy amounts of people willing to go fight against us, either for money, or because they have nothing better going on in their lives.

They could start popping out of the wood work from everywhere if WWW3 breaks out over our "Air striking" Iran.

An example taken from a myth busting web-site on the viet nam war.

Quote:

The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 South Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and schoolteachers




The little guys don't play by our rules and get an advantage.

I also want to ask, if scrapper militant/terrorist groups in Iraq haven't been able to form a worthy fighting force against the U.S. as you say, why are we still still over there? It should be wrapped up right now just as simply as you say our air Strike on Iran will be. How can you be so sure of that when this Iraq war has gone on for longer then Bush first thought it would?

I'm asking because I want to understand better where you are coming from.

Do you know off the top of your head, what other Nations, besides Israel, would support us in an air strike on Iran?


Nice Post Kotik. :thumbup:


Yes SirTripsAlot, regardless if Chavez is right or wrong, nuts our sound, he holds an audience of the worlds national leaders and they greatly applauded what he had to say against Bush and the White House Administration.  We, the little shroomerites with next to no global power but our votes, can ignore or brush him off as crazy or a hypocrite, a guy with a lot of balls, or even sound and speaking truths though to small to care about, and so what?

The UN, took him seriously enough to give him an uproar of applause, and the UN is the freaking UN, not that Bush pays them any mind anymore:lol: It makes you wonder what he knows that we don't if he can flip his nose at them. 

How much weight do you all think the U.S. really has on this planet to push others around with?

U.S. vs the Planet, who wins?

U.S. and China vs the planet, who wins?

Who has to be against us before some of you will say "OH SHIT!, Bush went to far now?

Just curious. I don't follow this stuff as much as some of you do.

I'm wondering if any reports have come out from other Nations besides the U.S. criticizing Chavez's speech. Anyone come across any yet?

I'll google search it now and share what I find if anything.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6088076 - 09/21/06 09:59 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
It seems you do equate the ability to defeat an enemy by who has the larger war budget and more expensive war toys I see. Why couldn't the U.S. defeat the little North Vietenmese in the ten years they tried too before coming to a stale mate?

My husband was just telling me that Ted Turner was on the tele last night saying sort of the same thing, something to the effect of, we have all of these Expensive War ships and huge military spending and can't take out some rebels in Iraq? What a waste of money"

I'm not sure if big war budgets secure quick wins against little scrappers.



The problem in Vietnam was two fold:

First, the biggest problem was the constant fear of Chinese involvement if the US invaded North Vietnam. North Vietnam couldn't be invaded, only bombed, so the source of the insurgency in South Vietnam wouldn't go away.

The second problem was the lack of legitimacy of the US-backed government.

There probably wasn't a good solution to Vietnam, as China probably would have been involved if we invaded North Vietnam, meanwhile the Soviets kept paying people to destabilize South Vietnam, so self-government became very difficult to pull off.

Iraq is a problem because we thought that the Iraqi people would spontaneously build themselves a government.

But that's just it, none of this would happen in Iran. We wouldn't even have to change the regime.

The ONLY goal in a war with Iran would be to remove their capacity to enrich uranium. If we took out all of their nuclear facilities, we've achieved our goals and can call it a day. Nothing beyond that would really matter.

Also, while "little scrappers" are very good at terrorist bombings, and damaging infrastructure, they can't protect locations for crap, so we wouldn't really need to worry about their ability to prevent us from destroying their nuclear facilities.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6088267 - 09/21/06 10:46 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

If you meet a Venezuelan that immigrated here since 99.. ask them if they left Venezuela because they were looking for opportunity or because they wanted to get away from Chavez.. then report back here please.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6088296 - 09/21/06 10:52 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
If you meet a Venezuelan that immigrated here since 99.. ask them if they left Venezuela because they were looking for opportunity or because they wanted to get away from Chavez.. then report back here please.



I would also ask them if they were upper or lower class, considering how popular he is among the poor.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6088344 - 09/21/06 11:01 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

hah.. what's considered upper class in venezuela... *3* magic beans per week?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6088382 - 09/21/06 11:13 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Thanks for sharing more of your view on those questions.

Quote:

Iraq is a problem because we thought that the Iraqi people would spontaneously build themselves a government.




Thats the part that concerns me, the "we thought" part. In my 38 years of life, I have learned that no matter how well you plan, things rarely go according to plan. There is always that X factor no one thought of.

Quote:

But that's just it, none of this would happen in Iran. We wouldn't even have to change the regime.




What if that statement issued from the WH Admin becomes a

"We thought, none of this(X Factor) would happen in Iran." :hillbilly:

Time will tell. :popcorn:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6088417 - 09/21/06 11:22 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
hah.. what's considered upper class in venezuela... *3* magic beans per week?



Excellent show of ignorance and cultural chauvanism.  Bravo! :handth:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6088513 - 09/21/06 11:51 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What if that statement issued from the WH Admin becomes a

"We thought, none of this(X Factor) would happen in Iran." :hillbilly:

Time will tell. :popcorn:

:peace: :heart:




Do you need to be nuked to confront the fact that doing bad things is not good? I am affraid that would be to late for thinking action.

BTW, how many Iraqi people got killed directly or indirectly by US invasion? You think people from west find it distracting? What do you think would happen if the same number of US citisens get harmed? You think west will show more sympathy to you, than to people who really did no harm to anyone?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6088613 - 09/22/06 12:22 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Did you mean to make that reply to someone else?

I am against war and am a pacifist. I think only unintelligent people have to use violence to solve their problem or get what they want out of life.

Yes, I agree, that if the U.S. Air raids Iranian nuclear weapon production facilities and we start WWW3 in the process because the U.S "thought none of that would happen", I say, thats right, they thought none, and yes, it would be to late to turn it around.

Bare in mind, their argument is that if Iran is allowed to make them, they will use them against their neighbors, sell them to terrorists to use against the U.S. and they say, the world will get blown up anyway if we let them build them. What if they are right?

Can you see into the future of what Iran will do with nukes if they are allowed to make them?

This whole situation sucks anyway you look at it.

What's with all the violence in this world??????

You blame Bush, but global violence has been around looooooooooooong since before he was born. He is to simple and easy a target to blame.

Look to who profits from wars if you want to find blame. Look to parents and systems that teach children violence is the way solve disputes and how to get what you want if you want something to blame. Look to who gave human kind nuclear technology before the WHOLE of it grew up and stopped acting like selfish, spoiled, bratty, careless children if you want someone to blame.

Bush..pshhh......take him out tomorrow and the middle east will still be in conflict. When hasn't it been? The middle east has been at war with itself since before the Pilgrims even set foot on Plymouth rock. Global violence won't end when Bush's term ends or the U.S. goes belly under. Then who are people going to blame for it?

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6088767 - 09/22/06 01:00 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 08:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6088821 - 09/22/06 01:12 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

I thought it was a decent speech as well. Too bad it had to come from another thug like Chavez.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6089428 - 09/22/06 08:00 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

shit.. even the dali lama worked for the CIA. you can't trust anyone it seems.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6089446 - 09/22/06 08:14 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
I thought it was a decent speech as well. Too bad it had to come from another thug like Chavez.




Suppose it is nothing to loose syndrome. The only moment when you can expect politican to talk truth. :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6089456 - 09/22/06 08:29 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Did you mean to make that reply to someone else?

I am against war and am a pacifist. I think only unintelligent people have to use violence to solve their problem or get what they want out of life.

Yes, I agree, that if the U.S. Air raids Iranian nuclear weapon production facilities and we start WWW3 in the process because the U.S "thought none of that would happen", I say, thats right, they thought none, and yes, it would be to late to turn it around.




No, no. It was directed to you. And I do understand you are pacifist. Yet, some say that evil is existing not because of evil people, but because good people do not do anything about that. That is some responsibility I am addressing to.

Quote:

Bare in mind, their argument is that if Iran is allowed to make them, they will use them against their neighbors, sell them to terrorists to use against the U.S. and they say, the world will get blown up anyway if we let them build them. What if they are right?




It is up to bare logic that gains common legitimation and solidarisation on the World level. If you attack, you are aggressor who is going to be condemned. If you defense, the World will be on your side. Now, imagine US military strength plus World legitimation. That would mean wipe out of any bad guys. That is the reason many suspicious states such North Korea, Pakistan or Israel can not do anything about nukes, even they have them.

So, I have some strong belief that there was no ww3 in even more tense situations as long as it leads to nowhere. Politicians even some media is trying to make them look lunatic like in order to legitimate aggressions, are far from non lucid, to risk that way. If they where that non lucid, I can notice they would not last one more minute as long as support for them would leak.

OK. You might think these pissed off, smelly turds who yell and burn flags around World would support such decisions. Yet, as long as Croatia has been in war not so far ago, I can notice that people who do express such feelings are regularly cowards who need large groups to feel important and powerful. And that is not respectful political base.

I suppose you have same problem with US extremists, not to understand what I am talking about. Of course, there are always some psychos around, but they are far from politically important, as long as people do not follow psychos and if they do, they are strongly monitored by establishment in any state in order of not going to far.

Quote:

Can you see into the future of what Iran will do with nukes if they are allowed to make them?




I can not see future at all. All I can do is to notice that legitimation on paranoid speculation is lame that world people do not suck.

Quote:

This whole situation sucks anyway you look at it.

What's with all the violence in this world??????

You blame Bush, but global violence has been around looooooooooooong since before he was born. He is to simple and easy a target to blame.




Bush is just an exponent of corrupted Establishment. He presents paradigm of non scrupulous imperialism.

Quote:

Look to who profits from wars if you want to find blame. Look to parents and systems that teach children violence is the way solve disputes and how to get what you want if you want something to blame. Look to who gave human kind nuclear technology before the WHOLE of it grew up and stopped acting like selfish, spoiled, bratty, careless children if you want someone to blame.

Bush..pshhh......take him out tomorrow and the middle east will still be in conflict. When hasn't it been? The middle east has been at war with itself since before the Pilgrims even set foot on Plymouth rock. Global violence won't end when Bush's term ends or the U.S. goes belly under. Then who are people going to blame for it?




I do believe in end of global violence, yes. And no, only elimination of Bush wont solve that problem.

Quote:

:peace: :heart:




Tutti fratelli  :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6089847 - 09/22/06 01:05 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Yet, some say that evil is existing not because of evil people, but because good people do not do anything about that.




And these people who say that, would you lump them in with the good or with the evil as you judge such things to be?

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMicrocosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Male

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6089937 - 09/22/06 01:25 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

They're evil too. We're all evil. The only good one is Jesus.


--------------------
:orly:



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6089961 - 09/22/06 01:33 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

"The little guys don't play by our rules and get an advantage."

Yup.... Its kinda like a chess player fighting a heavy weight Boxer. But we will eventually win WW IV. IMO WW III was the war against communism. Thanks to Bush we have Iran surrounded.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (09/22/06 01:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6090397 - 09/22/06 04:15 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

the Cold War was called the Cold War for a reason. To put the Cold War on the same level as World War I and II is absurd. As for Iran "being surrounded," it not to US advantage that we are in Iraq and Afghanistan considering we are pretty much bogged down militarily in both places and lacking popular support for yet another invasion. Plus, if the Bush Adminstration decided to take action against Iran, it will probably not be a land war. Aerial strikes will be the course.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6090419 - 09/22/06 04:22 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
IMO




Just my "absurd" :rolleyes: opinion.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6090451 - 09/22/06 04:29 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
the Cold War was called the Cold War for a reason. To put the Cold War on the same level as World War I and II is absurd. As for Iran "being surrounded," it not to US advantage that we are in Iraq and Afghanistan considering we are pretty much bogged down militarily in both places and lacking popular support for yet another invasion. Plus, if the Bush Adminstration decided to take action against Iran, it will probably not be a land war. Aerial strikes will be the course.




"Aerial strikes will be the course." Exactly! “There’s a huge advantage to land-based infrastructure. Compared to Carriers.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6090494 - 09/22/06 04:40 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

BTW lots of money and effort being put into Balad Military Base.

Balad is one of the busiest military airbases in the world, and Anaconda is the logistics support command for all of Iraq.

We now have troops and heavy equipment prepositioned near Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

Like Germany we will not be leaving there anytime soon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12441799/site/newsweek/


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6090524 - 09/22/06 04:46 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

Yet, some say that evil is existing not because of evil people, but because good people do not do anything about that.




And these people who say that, would you lump them in with the good or with the evil as you judge such things to be?

:peace: :heart:




Statement means nothing. Action does. And what I am considering about this statement is that our ethical standards are unadequate to handle evil, so I suppose we should think about that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6090536 - 09/22/06 04:48 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
BTW lots of money and effort being put into Balad Military Base.

Balad is one of the busiest military airbases in the world, and Anaconda is the logistics support command for all of Iraq.

We now have troops and heavy equipment prepositioned near Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

Like Germany we will not be leaving there anytime soon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12441799/site/newsweek/




Sounds as some true peace project to me  :cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6090828 - 09/22/06 05:58 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:

Statement means nothing.




Then why are you making them? :smile:


Quote:

Action does.




Then what action are you taking? :smile:

Quote:

And what I am considering about this statement is that our ethical standards are unadequate to handle evil, so I suppose we should think about that.




Speak for your own ethical standards and ability to mange "evil"  in your life. I don't even beleive in such a thing as evil.

I beleive in One Force- its called unconditional love. Sometimes it is in lack and then you get behavior like violence and greed.

I already did my thinking on it and came to my understanding of how all of this works on multi dimensional levels from the gross to the ultra sublte. I have been raising a daughter who doesn't have it in her to harm a fly and if she did accidentily, would become very upset. She respects life that much. She also chose on her own to become a vegetarian, eats nothing with eyes, donates her allowance money to animal shelters, childrens hospitals and green peace, all on her own, and she is only 9.

I'm taking responcibility for myself , my actions and for the human being I brought into this world.

If you want to dump any more on me, then, I understand your frustration and will suggest posting in P&S to understand how taking self accountability works versus the blame game, the villian victim game, duality perception, polarization conflict, and  seeking understanding over judgement. Fireworksofgod has a pretty good handle on it and will probably be up to helping you work out your frustrations in those areas and come to new understandings if that is what you are seeking.  :smile:

You refused to answer my ONE simple question so I am sorry, I can not help you. It seems you just want to bark at me and whoever will listen. If thats the case, I'll just listen.  :smile:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #6091111 - 09/22/06 07:44 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Talk about personal responsibility is not popular thing and it never was.

World is a dirty place. There are flowers and there is dirt. You want flowers, you need to take care of dirt. I am glad your child is fullfilled with empathy, I am really glad. Yet, empathy and love are not the same thing. Empathy with ignorance creates great pressure. Do not be ignorant, Gjwi. Because ignorance is a root of evil.

Yes. I am not saying you fine things. Sorry for that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6091294 - 09/22/06 09:04 PM (15 years, 6 days ago)

I would LOVE to see bush goto Venezuela and call their pres. satan without any secret service there to help, in the middle of all their politicians.

Then he could take a trip to Iran and talk some shit there too. At least Roosevelt would have boxed these mfs.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6093201 - 09/23/06 02:59 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Chavez is trying to spread propaganda about the USA since Chavez made himself into a dictator. Chavez is doing this to weaken his enemies so he can steal as much as that dirty commie can. He doesn't want his enemies getting help from the USA.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6093206 - 09/23/06 03:01 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i wonder if its possible to get politcal assylum in venezuela??...and BTW..theres already a thread on this topic ..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6081858/an/0/page/0




You'd have to put some clothes on first.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Phred]
    #6093213 - 09/23/06 03:05 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
GOP Funds Ahmadinejad-Chavez Speaking Tour
by Scott Ott

(2006-09-21) — The Republican National Committee (RNC) today offered to fund a coast-to-coast U.S. speaking tour featuring Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, in the weeks leading up to November’s Congressional elections.

The offer comes in the wake of two days of public remarks by the two foreign leaders before the United Nations, the Council on Foreign Relations and U.S. news media. Their diplomatic pronouncements included…
– denying the Holocaust,
– calling the U.S. president “the devil“,
– praying at the U.N. for the return of Islam’s fabled 12th Imam,
– praising Cuban dictator Fidel Castro,
– insisting any nation has the right to develop nuclear technology,
– portraying the United States as the locus of evil in the modern world, and
– plugging Noam Chomsky’s book “Hegemony or Survival: America’s Quest for Global Dominance.”

“President Bush can talk about his national security plan and foreign policy all day long,” said an unnamed RNC spokesman, “But no one makes a more compelling case than the duo of Mahmoud and Hugo. We want to make sure every American has an opportunity to hear these important world leaders.”

The Republican source said sponsoring the pre-election Ahmadinejad-Chavez speaking tour was also a way of “reaching across the aisle to help our colleagues in the Democrat party to get their message out, so the American voter can make an informed decision.”



http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2336



Phred





Looks like publicizing the commies and towel head wackjobs will only help the neocon agenda.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Economist]
    #6093231 - 09/23/06 03:10 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Crobih said:
So, that is the reason I am neither interested into Izrael conflict (that would not last 5 years if there was no US establishment involved), nor inter-muslim conflicts (that would stay tribe wars in lack of grand common enemy), nor conflicts in Africa, nor anywhere else. There is just no point to be focused on the symptoms when the source of the real problem is rather easily noticed.

And what is the most funny, US establishment makes its people dependent on imperialistic, cancer issues, while in the same time big monopolies destroy free enterprise that built America.




What a load of bull.  Yeah, the US is responsible for all the problems everyhere, sure... :rolleyes:

You can go ahead and continue to blame the US for actions they took to oppose the Soviet Union, pretending that the real threat (the Soviets) had nothing to do with it.  You can blame mismanagement by governments the world over on "US Imperialism" instead of the governments that actually make the mistakes.





The USA is God.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6093244 - 09/23/06 03:15 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:
Hmh, I am neither great fun of Chavez as long as I do not know much about Venezuela. Though, I know something about Croatia and what does it mean when you have corrupted public workers that will sign/do anything for satisfying their lower astral greed personal from US establishment offer.





Maybe they kicked you out from the higher astral planes because you wouldn't bow down and obey the great Pooba.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Luddite]
    #6093271 - 09/23/06 03:24 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4599260.stm

Gee whiz o flip out. The commies are screwing up Venezuela already and those on the left don't care because they don't live there. They can eat the food the neocons have provided for them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6093315 - 09/23/06 03:42 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

the media has only concentrated on the "devil" comments and has not said a single thing ever about Posada. i didnt notice any of you saying anything either.

I thought it was a very important part of the speech. With that said, i am by no means suprised that there has been a complete media blackout on the matter in favor of superficial coverage (chavez calls bush "devil"). Looking at media coverage and looking at the actual transcript, it is very clear that there is something wrong with the media.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #6093342 - 09/23/06 03:54 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
I thought it was a very important part of the speech. With that said, i am by no means suprised that there has been a complete media blackout on the matter in favor of superficial coverage (chavez calls bush "devil"). Looking at media coverage and looking at the actual transcript, it is very clear that there is something wrong with the media.



You mean like how everyone is reporting on 1 line of the Pope's 35-minute long speech?

The media likes it when people are percieved to be insulting each other, and they report accordingly.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: kotik]
    #6095238 - 09/24/06 11:38 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
im opposed to bush, and I think Chavez has been using that same view against us. While I agree with what he says, and I like what he talks about, he's a fucking actor.

He's got a law in his country that makes it a felony to talk bad about the government, or authority in general. I would prefer Bush over Chavez any day, however thats an unfair choice. If Chavez was running a peaceful country himself, I could see more to his speeches, however his policies are even worse than what we have here, so until that changes his opinions are moot to my ears.




I do not find Chavez be somebody who has to be followed with no criticism indeed. Yet, if you are eventually into politics, it is up to you to check out validity of his thoughts and consequences of his speech. What I can notice, his thoughts did some great work for the World public.

About acting. Yes, the current political reality is based on manipulation, acting, etc. And I do not find Chavez, nor any other World famous politician be trustworthy person. And he does not have to be neither. His job was job of promition of some ideas. He succeed in that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Luddite]
    #6095244 - 09/24/06 11:40 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Luddite said:
Quote:

Crobih said:
Hmh, I am neither great fun of Chavez as long as I do not know much about Venezuela. Though, I know something about Croatia and what does it mean when you have corrupted public workers that will sign/do anything for satisfying their lower astral greed personal from US establishment offer.





Maybe they kicked you out from the higher astral planes because you wouldn't bow down and obey the great Pooba.




Seems like you need some good cleaning of your chakras  :stoned:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #6095269 - 09/24/06 11:53 AM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
the media has only concentrated on the "devil" comments and has not said a single thing ever about Posada. i didnt notice any of you saying anything either.

I thought it was a very important part of the speech. With that said, i am by no means suprised that there has been a complete media blackout on the matter in favor of superficial coverage (chavez calls bush "devil"). Looking at media coverage and looking at the actual transcript, it is very clear that there is something wrong with the media.




Welcome to the world of the mass media manipulations. :cool:

Read Chomsky, btw. He made some good points about that. Another one is actually my favourite: Walter Lippmann  :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Crobih]
    #6095348 - 09/24/06 12:32 PM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:
Quote:

Luddite said:
Quote:

Crobih said:
Hmh, I am neither great fun of Chavez as long as I do not know much about Venezuela. Though, I know something about Croatia and what does it mean when you have corrupted public workers that will sign/do anything for satisfying their lower astral greed personal from US establishment offer.





Maybe they kicked you out from the higher astral planes because you wouldn't bow down and obey the great Pooba.




Seems like you need some good cleaning of your chakras  :stoned:





Can a scientist demonstrate the existance of chakras in a laboratory?



Edited by Luddite (09/24/06 12:32 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Luddite]
    #6095375 - 09/24/06 12:39 PM (15 years, 4 days ago)

Self-Loathing and the Denial of Terrorism

BY JAMES LILEKS
c.2006 Newhouse News Service

\

More stories by James Lileks

You're an enlightened world citizen. Your T-shirt says "9/11 was an inside job." You're pretty sure we're living in a fascist state, that President Bush taps the Dixie Chicks' phones, Christian abortion clinic bombers outnumber jihadis, and the war on "terror" is a distraction from the real threats: carbon emissions and Pat Robertson. Then you learn that 17 people were arrested in a terrorist bomb plot. How do you process the information? Let's take it step by step.

Gosh, that's horrible, you think. But no -- that's what they WANT you to feel. Recall the prime directive: Question Authority (unless he's a college professor). The plotters must have been impoverished olive farmers radicalized by the removal of Saddam Hussein. Why, if someone came in and toppled your president, you'd go to their country and ... well, you'd thank them. Unless they did it for the wrong reasons! Then you'd blow something up. Like an SUV dealership. At night. Anyway, you understand; you care a lot about Iraqis these days. You think about Iraq more than China, to be honest, but it's not as if you'll scrape off your "Free Tibet" bumper sticker -- unless it's to make room for "Free Darfur." Or "Hands Off Darfur," depending.

Wait a minute: The "terrorists" were Canadian? You can understand someone blowing up trains in Spain and London. They sent troops to an illegal war cooked up by neocons who want to kill brown people for Exxon and Jesus, or something. You can understand, reluctantly, blowing up teens in an Israeli pizza parlor, because the Jews took the West Bank from the sovereign, ancient nation of Palestine. (How can a liberal socialist country behave so poorly? The world is full of mysteries.) But Canada? Isn't Michael Moore from Canada? You can get medical marijuana from married gay doctors in Canada, and no one has guns. You console yourself: Maybe they were really planning to attack the U.S.

You realize the suspects were all Muslim, and you dread the inevitable pogroms. Haven't been any yet, but any day now. You read that a mosque was vandalized in Toronto after the arrest, and you feel a certain grim relief. Finally, racism! Banners. If you're going to have a march, you'll need banners.

But wait. You read that the suspects were not connected to al-Qaida, and you're confused for a moment. Maybe it won't be over if they get Osama bin Laden (provided he isn't really in an supersecret Idaho prison). What if the "terrorists" hate you for their own reasons? The evildoer-in-chief said "they hate our freedoms" -- as if we have freedoms, really, just try and get a bike-messenger job that has full health benefits. But what if rights and mixed-sex education and an economy based on sustainable hemp-based art installations mean nothing to them?

Maybe you could convince them to hold off while you fix Amerikkka. At least you can get it down to one k. Maybe if the Democrats take the House back. A 10-seat swing won't make the imams cool down, but 20 seats, in red states? Would that be a good-faith effort?

You worry this will push Haditha off the front page. It's very important that everyone concentrate on the atrocities committed by U.S. troops every day. (It's such a relief not to have to pretend to support the troops anymore.) Anyway, nothing happened. Nothing blew up. If the suspects were planning something, they didn't do it, and this proves we can handle this as a law enforcement matter. Even though the police are racists.

Your head hurts.

You have a friend in Toronto. She's cool. It would kill her if these arrests were made possible by NSA eavesdropping.

You find yourself almost wishing there was another real attack, so people could see the logical consequences of "fighting back" after 9/11. Yes, it would be bad, but sometimes you have to break an egg to show people the health impact of omelettes. Is it wrong to wish the Canadian terrorists might have succeeded?

Shouldn't you know the answer to that question?

June 7, 2006

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks060706.html


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,790
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Luddite]
    #6097756 - 09/25/06 08:47 AM (15 years, 3 days ago)

You know Chavez was right......when he went up to give the speech it did smell like sulfur, just like when he left, it smelled like pig droppings  :smile:


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6097863 - 09/25/06 10:15 AM (15 years, 3 days ago)

So... are you saying that Bush smelled like pig shit and Chavez had an eclipsing aura of sulfur stench?  :confused:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,790
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Basilides]
    #6098211 - 09/25/06 01:12 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

No, Chavez spoke AFTER BUSH....
Hence the smell of sulfur

After Chavez left, it smelled like pig droppings


How did you get confused?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6098480 - 09/25/06 02:56 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

Your statement does not make sense. Why would it smell like pig droppings?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Basilides]
    #6098495 - 09/25/06 03:00 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

This threads starting to smell like pig droppings.

Quit it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6098946 - 09/25/06 05:14 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 08:02 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6099057 - 09/25/06 05:47 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

The article would have been okay until he starts the name-calling, then he's just as bad as the e-mail he quotes.

I'm also tiring very quickly of all the revisionist history that's taking place these days, pretending the Soviet Union didn't exist. Most of the Latin American interventions that took place after 1920 were due, either directly or indirectly, to Soviet involvement. Furthermore, the notable intervention that took place after the Soviet Union was in decline, Panama, has benefitted that country in the long term, while hurting "US Elites" because of a return of the Panama Canal.

Jensen then tries to say that Chavez is making a point because we're hypocrits for aggressively invading another country. Except he doesn't note that Chavez himself runs a nation that fails to obey the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (talk about hypocrisy). Then he goes on to describe many on the right as "ignorant" despite the fact that he's ignoring both history and present political situations.

Why couldn't he just point out the, very real, fear of military action that Chavez harbors? The fact that a prominent US figure, Pat Robertson, has openly called for his assasination.

That alone speaks for itself. When Jensen stoops to hurling insults and changing history, it diminishes the piece too much for my tastes.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: Economist]
    #6099504 - 09/25/06 08:04 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 08:03 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,790
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Basilides]
    #6099838 - 09/25/06 09:22 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Your statement does not make sense. Why would it smell like pig droppings?





(Sigh).....

A major part of Venezuela's economy comes from livestock:


http://countrystudies.us/venezuela/27.htm

The country's livestock industries accounted for nearly a third of all output in the agricultural sector and met the nation's basic meat consumption needs. The pork and poultry industries fared well during the 1980s, while the beef and dairy industries struggled. The cattle industry, a mainstay of Venezuela's central plains for centuries, failed to modernize along with the pork and poultry industries during the 1970s and 1980s. The low prices paid by the government, combined with producer export taxes, hurt cattle ranchers, who did not export for several years during the 1980s. Both cattle ranchers and dairy farmers were unable to maximize production. The government sought to intervene in the case of the dairy industry, providing various levels of subsidies, especially for consumers. These policies proved unsuccessful, however, and did more to promote corruption in milk distribution than efficiency in production. By 1990 the country was only 40 percent self-sufficient in milk. Many of the subsidies were likely targets of market-oriented reforms in the early 1990s.

The poultry and pork industries succeeded in bringing more modern production techniques to Venezuela beginning in the 1970s. Some 2.5 million pigs were slaughtered in 1988, up from 1.7 million in 1980. The poultry industry also increased production, from 156 million broilers in 1980 to 251 million in 1988. The country exported modest amounts of poultry in the mid-1980s. Both the pork and poultry industries, however, faced increased costs after 1989 as a result of the exchange rate liberalization that raised the cost of imported feeds.


If the President smells of Sulfur from his demonic policies, then Chavez smells like pigshit (or better yet oil) from his.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,790
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6099842 - 09/25/06 09:23 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
This threads starting to smell like pig droppings.

Quit it.





You the thought police?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6100540 - 09/25/06 11:33 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:
hah.. what's considered upper class in venezuela... *3* magic beans per week?



Excellent show of ignorance and cultural chauvanism.  Bravo! :handth:




Ohh boo hoo... waaaa.. Did I get your little panties in a wad because I made a hyperbole about how poor Venezuela was? I thought $6,100 per year (and 47% living below the poverty line) would be pretty poor but I guess, according to your precious little PC world, it's rude to point that out.

Actually that's all a lie. I made up those stats. I really, totally,  **actually** think that Venezuelans make an income of three magic beans per week. You got me silversoul... you totally caught me. The truth is out... I, BrAiN,... believe in magic beans.

And I also believe in magical farts.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6103665 - 09/26/06 04:46 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
As for using the Soviet Union as a boogeyman to try to justify blatant exploitation by the U.S. imperialists, U.S. "intervention" (I'll call it that for now to temporarily avoid a larger discussion) in Latin America begin well before the October Revolution and the consolidation of power by the Bolsheviks after the Russian Civil War, and it continued unchanged; it just now had a more effective propaganda cover.



I specifically reffered to interventions after 1920 in my original post, you can go back and re-read it if you need to.

Furthermore, what are you talking about "propaganda cover"? So your claim is that Cuba, Nicaragua, Colombia, etc. didn't recieve Soviet funding/weapons/training/support, despite obvious evidence to the contrary?

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Truthfully, I really don't think you care all that much about understanding the culture and history of the Americas pre-Colombus, and the ideologies and beliefs behind resistance fighters and revolutionary movements among the native inhabitants of the Western hemisphere. Becuase if you did you would know that the spirit of indigenous resistance to European colonialism & subsequent American imperialism goes back way further than the formation of the Soviet Union and has roots much deeper than the writings and ideas of Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels. Study figures such as Cuauhtémoc, Rumiñahui, Túpac Amaru, Tecumseh, Simón Bolívar, Crazy Horse, Cochise, Sitting Bull, Geronimo, José Martí, Emiliano Zapata, Pancho Villa, José Carlos Mariátegui, Farabundo Martí, Augusto César Sandino, Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, Gustavo Gutiérrez, Néstor Cerpa Cartolini, Subcomandante Marcos (and so many others) to gain a much broader sense of understanding on the indigenous cultures of the Amercas and how they viewed/view imposed European values and political structures.



What does any of this have to do with Chavez?

Chavez isn't espousing some ancient value system that predates Colombus. What he is espousing is an irresponsible combination of militarism and socialism, which will eventually result in the demise of Venezuela.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: Economist]
    #6112822 - 09/28/06 10:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 08:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: Economist]
    #6113159 - 09/28/06 11:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 08:05 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEconomist
in training
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Opinions on Chavez speech at the General Assembly? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6113702 - 09/29/06 12:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So, your argument is that Chavez has something to be mad about because of events that occured a century ago?

Great, let's all go back a hundred years, dig up all of our grievances, and air them out at the UN.

That'll be real productive.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Recent Gore speech
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Edame 3,651 66 08/11/03 11:18 PM
by pattern
* Hugo Chavez has tape of CIA plotting Venezuala Coup SquattingMarmot 842 4 09/21/03 09:47 PM
by afoaf
* Chavez: Halloween part of U.S. culture of terror lonestar2004 641 6 11/01/05 10:08 PM
by gregorio
* Best Bush Speech Analysis I've Seen Ancalagon 547 1 09/04/04 03:18 PM
by JesusChrist
* Chavez swipes at 'assassin' Bush bukkake 1,319 15 08/29/05 09:50 AM
by LSDempire
* Wouldn't we all like to see THIS Bush speech? Phred 1,078 9 09/15/04 05:28 AM
by Zahid
* Hugo Chavez
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Unagipie 4,920 70 08/29/05 09:53 AM
by LSDempire
* I like Hugo Chavez even more now
( 1 2 all )
BrAiN 1,995 29 08/30/05 04:03 PM
by bukkake

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
5,038 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.073 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.