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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Video: FEMA Detention Camp
    #6071538 - 09/17/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/September2006/170906Camp.htm

interesting footage, looks like American concentration camps to me.
i'm getting out of this country.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6071678 - 09/17/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

they've been around for years, there's a list of these camps that has been leaked
I've personaly seen 3 of them

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6071746 - 09/17/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey pris, for some reason you seem to have recently taken an interest in posting on this forum. Usually we like to see links to credible sources of information as a means to verify the opinions expressed. You haven't produced one for anything. Time's up. So put up.

Altered, there is not one fucking thing in that video that amounts to evidence of anything at all. Feel free to take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6071767 - 09/17/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

US government has anticipated mass civil disobedience since the 60's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Garden_Plot



The United States Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2

The following information was obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The original printing was of June 1, 1984. The information herein is UNCLASSIFIED and does not come within the scope of directions governing the protection of information affecting the national security.

It took a little more than three years to obtain a full copy of Operation Garden Plot from the U.S. Government, and was done so under the freedom of information act for unclassified documents. The implications within the full context of this document should make the hair on the back of your head stand on end!!!!!

In this document signed by the Secretary of the Army, is hereby assigned as DOD Executive Agent for civil disturbance control operations. Under Plan 55-2 he is to use airlift and logistical support, in assisting appropriate military commanders in the 50 states, District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and US possessions and territories, or any political subdivision thereof.

The official name of this project is called "Operation Garden Plot."

Under this plan for the deployment of Operation Garden Plot, the use of CIDCON-1 will be mandatory. This direct support of civil disturbance control operations is to be used by the Army, USAF, Navy, and Marine Corp. with an airlift force to be comprised of MAC Organic Airlift Resources, airlift capable aircraft of all other USAF major commands, and all other aerial reconnaissance and Airborne Psychological Operations. This is to include control communications systems, aeromedical evacuation, helicopter and Weather Support Systems.

If any civil disturbance by a resistance group, religious organization, or other persons considered to be non-conformist takes place, under Appendix 3 to Annex B of Plan 55-2 hereby gives all Federal forces total power over the situation if local and state authorities cannot put down said dissenters.

Annex A, section B of Operation Garden Plot defines tax protesters, militia groups, religious cults, and general anti-government dissenters as Disruptive Elements. This calls for the deadly force to be used against any extremist or dissident perpetrating any and all forms of civil disorder.

Under section D, a Presidential Executive Order will authorize and direct the Secretary of Defense to use the Armed Forces of the United States to restore order.

2 TAB A APPENDIX 1 TO ANNEX S USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 EXHIBIT POR:SGH, JCS Pub 6, Vol 5, AFR 160-5 hereby provides for America's military and the National Guard State Partnership Program to join with United Nations personal in said operations. This links selected U.S. National Guard units with the Defense Ministries of "Partnership For Peace." This was done in an effort to provide military support to civil authorities in response to civil emergencies.

Under Presidential Decision Directive No. 25, this program serves to cement people to relationships between the citizens of the United States, and the global military of the UN establishments of the emerging democracies of Central and Eastern European countries. This puts all of our National Guardsmen under the direct jurisdiction of the United Nations.

Section 3:
This plan could be implemented under any of the following situation:

(1) Spontaneous civil disturbances which involve large numbers of persons and/or which continue for a considerable period of time, may exceed the capacity of local civil law enforcement agencies to suppress. Although this type of activity can arise without warning as a result of sudden, unanticipated popular unrest (past riots), it may also result from more prolonged dissidence.

This would most likely be an outgrowth of serious social, political or economic issues which divide segments of the American population. Such factionalism could manifest itself through repeated demonstrations, protest marches and other forms of legitimate opposition but which would have the potential for erupting into spontaneous violence with little or no warning.

(2) Planned acts of violence or civil disobedience which, through arising from the same causes as (1) above, are seized upon by a dedicated group of dissidents who plan and incite purposeful acts designed to disrupt social order.

This may occur either because leaders of protest organizations intentionally induce their followers to perpetrate violent acts, or because a group of militants infiltrates an otherwise peaceful protest and seeks to divert it from its peaceful course.

Subsection C: (2) Environmental satellite products will be continue to be available. (d) Responsibilities. Meteorological support to civil disturbance operations will be arranged or provided by AWS wings.

The 7th. Weather Wing (7WW) is responsible for providing / arranging support for Military Airlift Command (MAC) airlift operations. The 5th Weather Wing (5WW) is responsible for supporting the United States Army Forces Command.

(3) SITUATION. Civil disturbance may threaten or erupt at any time in the CONUS and grow to such proportions as to require the use the Federal military forces to bring the situation under control.

A flexible weather support system is required under control. A flexible weather support system is required to support the many and varied options of this Plan.

ANNEX H: XXOW, AWSR 55-2, AWSR 23-6, AFR 23-31, AR 115-10, AFR 105-3.

Subsection B:

Concept of Environmental Support. Environmental support will be provided by elements of Air Weather Service (AWS) in accordance with refs a-f. The senior staff meteorologist deployed int the Task Force Headquarters (TFH) will be the staff weather officer (SWO) to the TFH.

Centralized environmental support products are requested in accordance with AWSR 105-18. (4) Weather support is provided by weather units located at existing CONUS bases or by deployed SWOs and / or weather teams to the objective areas.

(5) Support MAC source will be provide in accordance with the procedures in MARC 103-15. MAC forces will be provided in accordance with the procedures in AFR 105-3.

(a) Air Force Global Weather Central: Provides centralized products as requested.

REFERENCES : JCS Pub 18 - Doctrine for Operations Security AFR 55-30, Operations Security

1. GENERAL Opposition forces or groups may attempt to gain knowledge of this plan and 'use that knowledge to prevent or degrade the effectiveness of the actions outlined in this plan. In order to protect operations undertaken to accomplish the mission, it is necessary to control sources of information that can be exploited by those opposition forces or groups.

OPSEC is the effort to protect operations by identifying and controlling intelligence indicators susceptible to exploitation. The objective of OPSEC, in the execution of this plan, is to assure the security of operations, mission effectiveness, and increase the probability of mission success.

2. RESPONSIBILITY FOR OPERATIONS SECURITY (OPSEC):

The denial of information to an enemy is inherently a command responsibility. However, since the operations Officer at any level of command is responsible to his commander for the Overall planning and execution of operations, he has the principal staff interest in assuring maximum protection of the operation and must assume primary responsibility instibility for ensuring that the efforts of all other staff elements are coordinated toward this
end. However, every other individual associated with, or aware of, the operation must assist in safeguarding the security of the operation.

3. OBJECTIVES:

a. The basic objective of OPSEC is to preserve the security of friendly forces and thereby to enhance the probability of successful mission accomplishment. "Security" in this context relates to the protection of friendly forces. It also includes the protection of operational information to prevent degradation of mission effectiveness through the disclosure of prior knowledge of friendly operations to the opposition.

b. OPSEC pervades the entire planning process and must be a matter of continuing concern from the conception of an operation, throughout the preparatory and execution phases, and during critiques, reports, press releases, and the like conducted during the post operation phase.

4. Specific operations orders and standard operating procedures "MUST be developed with the awareness that the opposition may be able to identify and exploit vulnerable activities.

Reference Material:

Released under Freedom of Information Act on March 30th, 1990. All material presented here has been declassified and supersedes USAD Operations Plan 355-10 of July 16, 1973. Information released by USAF under supervision of Alexander K. Davidson, BRIG. GEN, USAF, Dep. Director of Operations.

APPENDEX 5 TO ANNEX E TO USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 Annex Z. Other References: 10 United States Codes 331,332,333,8500,1385, MARC 105-1, MARC 105-18, AR 115-10, AFR 105-3, PDD-25.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6071795 - 09/17/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

And this is relevant to......... what again?


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6071815 - 09/17/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well its not really relevant to the thread name, but i mean i wouldnt be surprised if they had unmarked detention centers. I dont think they are using it for nefarious reasons but it could be used for nefarious reasons.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6071820 - 09/17/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Usually we like to see links to credible sources of information as a means to verify the opinions expressed.





well, is CNN credible?
isnt an opinion ones own, should I say 'heres a link to my opinion, it's credible
because I wrote it' if your opinions come from web sites then you post all the
links you wish to the opinions you adopt, I'll maintain that mine are my own


btw, this was discussed more than a year ago i this very forum

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6071844 - 09/17/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Your not being surprised is more a reflection on your irrational willingness, nay eagerness, to believe any bit of lunatic bullshit that allows you to scream US HEGEMONY, FASCISM, SUCKAGE. Total fictitious nonsense. And it wasn't even good. Just stupid. It loooked like any industrial area with any kind of security. There's more security cameras on London streets now. What the fuck?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6071851 - 09/17/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
well its not really relevant to the thread name, but i mean i wouldnt be surprised if they had unmarked detention centers. I dont think they are using it for nefarious reasons but it could be used for nefarious reasons.




currently they're vacant, the one in Oak Ridge is pretty damned old, fromt he 40's or 50's I believe, theres a couple here in georgia as well

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6071877 - 09/17/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Altered, there is not one fucking thing in that video that amounts to evidence of anything at all.  Feel free to take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you




i have not claimed to have found any evidence. i said they 'LOOK' like concentration camps to me. think before you judge please. :rolleyes:

would you like to share what they 'LOOK' like to you?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6071891 - 09/17/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Usually we like to see links to credible sources of information as a means to verify the opinions expressed.





well, is CNN credible?
isnt an opinion ones own, should I say 'heres a link to my opinion, it's credible
because I wrote it' if your opinions come from web sites then you post all the
links you wish to the opinions you adopt, I'll maintain that mine are my own


btw, this was discussed more than a year ago i this very forum




I should have said, and I apologize for being sloppy, that you should produce links to verify the facts that you used to come to your opinion. Or, conversely, you should produce a link to some facts to support your opinion. Otherwise you're just an easily dismissable blowhard. And that video is a fucking joke. So, tell me all about those camps again. No really, tell me all about those camps that have been exposed and that you have seen with your own steely blue eyes. You have a right to your opinion, .......the facts you have to produce, and you asserted facts. So, let's have them. Or is this an Area51 deal?


I'd be very interested to see the discussion you reference because I don't recall anything that meets your description and I am very faithful in my attendance here. I don't see CNN referenced here and no, I don't always take what they say as gospel. See Eason Jordan for a reason for my disrespect of CNN. But if they get other corroboration, sure. If it's a real bona fide story it won't appear in only one place


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6071914 - 09/17/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Altered, there is not one fucking thing in that video that amounts to evidence of anything at all.  Feel free to take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you




i have not claimed to have found any evidence. i said they 'LOOK' like concentration camps to me. think before you judge please. :rolleyes:

would you like to share what they 'LOOK' like to you?




Every industrial park I have ever seen, particularly in port areas.  NO.  Wait wait wait.  They look just like the places they used to stage the fake moon landings.  NO.  Wait wait wait.  They look like where I would definitely study alien bodies.  NO.  Wait wait wait.  They look like what the outside of snuff film studios would look like.  NO.  Wait wait wait........And on and on and on.  A fertile imagination is...........amusing.  Wouldn't a concentration camp have, like, people in it?  And guards?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6071939 - 09/17/06 07:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I should have said, and I apologize for being sloppy, that you should produce links to verify the facts that you used to come to your opinion. Or, conversely, you should produce a link to some facts to support your opinion.




I'm not sure what you'd consider a fact, just because something hits news print
certainly doesnt make it a fact. take 'the submarine' for instance, a huge great
white off the coast of south africa... it was in the papers, people witnessed it
yet strangely enough, it wasnt real
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Submarine_(shark)

help me out, what do you call a fact, is it a 'truth' that you happen to also believe?

Quote:

So, tell me all about those camps again.




ok, this same story has cropped up dozens of times, one lengthy thread in this very forum details it


Quote:

I'd be very interested to see the discussion you reference because I don't recall anything that meets your description and I am very faithful in my attendance here.




it was here, we have a search engine, try using it, maybe it was before your time

Quote:

I don't see CNN referenced here and no, I don't always take what they say as gospel. If it's a real bona fide story it won't appear in only one place




CNN was simply a litmus, I still need to understand what qualifies as credible,
I mean a dentist reports that the mossad is killing scientists, it appears in
many places on the net, is it still credible?

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6071960 - 09/17/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
would you like to share what they 'LOOK' like to you?




Like so much pork-barrel spending it makes me want to vomit!

I don't really trust the video-voice over very much, but if we assume for a second that it was accurate and that whoever put the video has actually done some research...

Does that look like a "multi-millions dollar" (according, again to the voice-over) renovation to you?

If they spent more than 1 million dollars to throw up some fence and pour some concrete (the building was supposed to be old, and since it wasn't appreciably changed there was no foundation work) that's the most wasteful project I've heard of in a long time. Forget whatever they're doing there, why does the facility look like so much crap if it's had at least $2 million put into it? Why would there be rusted cranes and broken machinery just lying around in a "recently renovated" facility?

I think this is a conspiracy, but of a completely different kind. I think this is a conspiracy by corrupt non-elected bureaucrats, or perhaps local-level municipally elected individuals, to secure large amounts of funding for graftful purposes while telling everyone else that they have constructed a "hurricane relief shelter" or something along those lines.

You know, the FEMA official in charge of making Seattle (or wherever that was) "earthquake proof" or something, hires his college roommate to build a fence for a "shelter" pays him $2 million for a $400,000 job, and tells everyone that Seattle is now ready with a secure Earthquake-Relief-and-Command-Center.

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6072772 - 09/18/06 12:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wouldn't a concentration camp have, like, people in it? And guards?




Sure, when it's time to operate them.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6072896 - 09/18/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Every industrial park I have ever seen, particularly in port areas. NO. Wait wait wait. They look just like the places they used to stage the fake moon landings. NO. Wait wait wait. They look like where I would definitely study alien bodies. NO. Wait wait wait. They look like what the outside of snuff film studios would look like. NO. Wait wait wait........And on and on and on. A fertile imagination is...........amusing. Wouldn't a concentration camp have, like, people in it? And guards?





Yea just like an industrial park...because most industrial park have US military markings and security checkpoints (the turnstiles).


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"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6072926 - 09/18/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You see, i just wonder, i mean sure, concrete evidence is most likely out there, i will show you it when i come across it, and of course you show me yours too if you find it..

But if you have a facility, that is enfenced three times, has electronic turnstiles clearly made for masses of people, has railroads coming in and out for secure transport (U.S. Army trains), has installed gas furnaces, watch towers, surveillance cameras, etc. etc. (observations taken from the footage). And if these facilities can be found all over the country, and are operated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, you must ask yourself, what is the purpose?

To house human beings? Sure that is already apparent. To house criminals, druggies, illegal immigrants? I don't think so, that is not FEMA's job.

Part of FEMA's job was to create a series of so-called "Executive Orders" which allow the government to suspend and take control over practically all aspects of society (to name a few: transportation, highways, seaports, airports, communications media, electrical power, fuel, gas, water, food resources and farms, all health, education, and wellfare functions, directing of people and communities, the list goes on). Do your own research.

So why? To keep us all safe in case of a national emergency? Well that's what they tell us..

And frankly, i just do not believe anything they say to us anymore because i have caught this government lying again and again and again. What i trust is my own two eyes, my own research, and my natural instinct.

Sure you have your opinion about what all this means, but i also have mine. So honestly, if you really think that there is no threat to our freedom and well-being here, well then that's your opinion, you can believe whatever you want. Take care.


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Edited by AlteredAgain (09/18/06 02:16 AM)

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6072965 - 09/18/06 02:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

dont come to australia


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6072974 - 09/18/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Part of FEMA's job was to create a series of so-called "Executive Orders"




those come from the office of the president, not FEMA

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6072987 - 09/18/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yeah it's the other way around, like you said.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6072994 - 09/18/06 03:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I would be willing to bet that what we are seeing is a multi use facility created by fema.
these can be very useful in times of pandemic or other widespread disease. just my 2 cents


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6073015 - 09/18/06 04:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Civilian Inmate Labor Program
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

"* Chapter 1
o Introduction
+ 1–1. Purpose


This regulation provides Army policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate labor programs and civilian prison camps on Army installations. Sources of civilian inmate labor are limited to on– and off–post Federal corrections facilities, State and/or local corrections facilities operating from on–post prison camps pursuant to leases under Section 2667, Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 2667), and off–post State corrections facilities participating in the demonstration project authorized under Section 1065, Public Law (PL) 103–337. Otherwise, State and/or local inmate labor from off–post corrections facilities is currently excluded from this program. "

How does all this fit in with the Posse Comitatus Act of the USA?


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"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: J4S0N]
    #6073051 - 09/18/06 05:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

this could have come right from the mouth of god, and zappa would still refute it for not fitting within his own paradigm.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: kotik]
    #6073522 - 09/18/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The unfortunate thing about that video is that without the narration it is nothing. Turnstiles are checkpoints? Yankee Stadium has turnstiles. And security. Barbed wire may be a defining characteristic of a detention camp, a sine qua non, but does the presence of barbed wire indicate that the facility is necessarily a detention camp? There's barbed wire around train yards here. Havre fun with your merry delusions

Pris, I read this forum constantly. What search words should I use to find these threads? How about this? You assert that these threads exist. That is something factual you can back up. So, how about it.

In general if only one media outlet reports something I distrust it. If several do I buy it, because there is no express conspiracy. They just tend to be fellow travelers. And I do not believe a single thing prison planet or counterpoint says. If these things exist and these retards know about it then you can bet your ass they'll be in the NYTimes and the Washington Post, because those are professional muckrakers and they want desperately to find these smoking guns. Do you know why they don't touch this stuff? Because it's bullshit. Complete unadulterated bullshit. Like Alex Jones and all the missile in the Pentagon nuts and all the controlled demo nuts and that other nut with the assassinated former congressman, I don't remember his name, and the Steven Jones nut and all the other absolutely fallacious whacko jerkoffs seeking attention and trying to sell books to gullible retards and paranoiacs.

Here's two facts:

1. (certainty level 99.9%) Islamic fanatics hijacked four airplanes on 9/11/01 and flew them into buildings and a field. Several buildings were damaged and some of them collapsed as a result of the impacts and fires.

2. (certainty level 100%) That video fails utterly to provide any evidence that what is being filmed is a detention camp.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6073541 - 09/18/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

2. (certainty level 100%) That video fails utterly to provide any evidence that what is being filmed is a detention camp.




What could these facilities be then?

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6073543 - 09/18/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i don't think that there is anything shocking about the US government preparing to house large numbers of detainees in the event of some sort of catastrophe. they have contingencies for everything. most of them were built when they were literally preparing for the end of the world.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: wilshire]
    #6073872 - 09/18/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i don't think that there is anything shocking about the US government preparing to house large numbers of detainees in the event of some sort of catastrophe. they have contingencies for everything. most of them were built when they were literally preparing for the end of the world.




Which is fine, except for the fact that this video doesn't provide any evidence for it whatsoever. Nor does anything else anybody has shown me. I mean, Guantanamo Bay is exactly the kind of facility you're talking about and it's no secret. This is like arguing that there really is a Santa because there are presents on Christmas ergo there must be a fat jolly guy with flying reindeer going all over the world with a bottomless sack. As opposed to the idea that people give each other presents.

I don't know what that place is. I don't know where it is. If this is some preparation for a mass detainee camp, how come only morons are reporting it? Do you really think it's because the NYTimes, et al, are in cahoots with Bush? They fucking hate him to the depths of their being. They'd love to expose something like this. Look what they did to ruin a perfectly legal NSA surveillance program. It's like exposing undercover agents to the mafia. They will do almost anything to get Bush and/or Republicans in general. So, where are they on this? Nowhere.

And now we get to the symptomology of paranoia. I've heard this shit for years and years and it almost never pans out. It's the crazy guy on the street corner constantly predicting the end of the world, which never comes. It doesn't take a reasonably curious person to believe this stuff. It takes someone predisposed to this kind of lunacy. Predisposed. You have to go into the argument wanting to believe these nuts because they never offer any proof, just a whole bunch of "well this could be and that could be and Roveroverovebushcheney."

It is entirely possible by the laws of physics that I could wake up on alpha centauri with your underwear on my head and Paris Hilton on the end of my dick. It COULD happen. But it won't. Guess how many 9s I'll put in my level o'certainty meter on that one.

Ummmmmm um good. we loves our koolaid.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6073972 - 09/18/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
I would be willing to bet that what we are seeing is a multi use facility created by fema.
these can be very useful in times of pandemic or other widespread disease. just my 2 cents




That's what I was thinking.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Redstorm]
    #6074168 - 09/18/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Like I said somewhere earlier, it certainly does have characteristics of train yards and generic secure industrial sites. There is nothing suspicious here. There may be something suspicious there but that video doesn't show it. The place is perfectly innocuous (and yes, I watched it. If you watched it with the sound off all you would say is Yeah, what's the point?) There is no evidence in the video that supports the contention that it is a detention camp. It may well be a detention camp but that video offers absolutely no evidence that that is so.

Let's have a show of hands. How many of you have ever even seen a secure rail yard, a commercial port facility, a secure industrial park? The backyard of an airport? There is not one single feature of that place that is inconsistent with any of those things, except maybe the turnstiles, and even those aren't that big a deal. What makes turnstiles a feature of detention camps anyway? Did they have them at the Japanese internment camps? Like I said, a predilection for believing the worst. Nay, even, a desire for the worst to be true. Just so you can say "nyah nyah nyahnyah nyah Bush sucks." Get real.

Disco Cat said, before it was deleted
Quote:

Either there are people who are planted in forums such as these for the purpose of trying to lead people away from figuring things out, or there are people who just don't think at all.





I am not a plant. Everything I post here is my honest opinion arrived at after careful consideration. I am smarter than you, better educated than you, better read than you, and more experienced than you. That is my OPINION. As far as I can tell you might be an agent of the Philodendron Liberation Front but I do not gratuitously insist that the views you hold are a product of cranial meteor strikes. You clearly did think about this. Just not very well. In my opinion.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6074199 - 09/18/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

who here said anything about Bush?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Vvellum]
    #6074239 - 09/18/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's always BUSH, except when it's ROVE, or whoever's in power. Da Man.
Given the penchant of the lunatic fringe (i.e. prisonplanet) to focus on BUSHROVECHENEY as the incarnation of evil, that's enough for me.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6074259 - 09/18/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have to agree. Sorry but that would make a shite holding area for a large number of people. The areas are too large for effective crowd control, the fences are of a type that could not resist crowd pressure. CCTV is minimal, everything there is consistent with a typical goods yard. If a lot has been spent on the place, I smell pork, especially of some Federal employee's knew someone in the turnstile business, but nothing more sinister than that.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6074457 - 09/18/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

seems most people here have agreed that the area in the video probably some weirdo, pork-barrel FEMA contigency plan facility. has anyone here mentioned the bush administration besides you?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6074670 - 09/18/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
I would be willing to bet that what we are seeing is a multi use facility created by fema.
these can be very useful in times of pandemic or other widespread disease. just my 2 cents





I'm willing to bet you're right

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6074821 - 09/18/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pris, I read this forum constantly. What search words should I use to find these threads? How about this? You assert that these threads exist. That is something factual you can back up. So, how about it.





my mistake, it was in the pub, I believed it was in this forum
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5211435

Quote:

In general if only one media outlet reports something I distrust it. If several do I buy it, because there is no express conspiracy.




gadsden minute men held off the FBI for 10 days over a video tape, did you hear
about that? probably not, because a couple local stations covered it for about
30 seconds before the news was hushed... of course there is never a conspiracy

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6075046 - 09/18/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So, was Koresh the messiah? 'Cause that's what I got when I googled Gadsden minutemen.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6075159 - 09/18/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

you'd have to ask him, and I guess my point is made regarding these conspiracies
and cover ups, the news isnt always going to be in more than one location,
sometimes it disappears comlpetely

now try googling 'good ol' boys round-up', thats the tape the FBI wanted to 'validate'

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Invisiblenewuser1492
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6075228 - 09/18/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: newuser1492]
    #6075369 - 09/18/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

not suprising... wouldnt want the FBI looking like a bunch of rubes
try searching for the video.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6075498 - 09/18/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Altered, there is not one fucking thing in that video that amounts to evidence of anything at all.




Did you even watch the video? :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6075616 - 09/18/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Greg Palast got arrested for filming one of these things under "Infrastructure Protection"

Patriot Act> Posse Comitatus/Amendments.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6076939 - 09/19/06 04:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You are asserting their existence and using them to prove a point. It is up to you to prove they exist.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6078003 - 09/19/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I'm willing to bet you're right

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html




:crazy: Mixed feelings about that read and I can see it from both sides.

Thanks for sharing that ladies story documented with photos Pris. Moral of that story is, "No matter how bad of a situation you currently find yourself in, don't get on a FEMA bus." :lol:

I can see why some call them prison camps when they are only served 2 meals a day, are not allowed snacks nor is anyone allowed to bring them in snacks nor is anyone allowed to leave to get their own and bring them back.

The main exception to it being just like a prison is that, they are free to leave though once they do, they can't come back. While in there it is like a prison because they can't go look for work, go visit friends on the outside, or go shop or out for entertainment on the outside.

Though they may be told they are free to leave, how are they going to do this so easily? The camp is in a remote area in the mountains away from any populous and the people were bussed in. They have no car to leave with, no buses running out and if cell phones don't work, and the camps have no public phones, how can you call anyone to come pick you up?

Besides, if you owned a cell phone and knew someone to call to pick you up, you would've done that instead of get on that FEMA bus in the first place when leaving NOLA.

I do understand their concerns about riots and the security of the people being housed there in general and that from FEMA's position, they are just taking preventative measures for the safety of anyone being housed in the name of FEMA because of lawsuits.

I'm left off thinking about how sad it is that for some families and individuals in the U.S. that was the best and only option they had, (in their eyes) to get out of NOLA and into a place with running water, electricity shelter and access to some food. In a way, they were already people without a mental/physical ability to take advantage of the freedom they did have to get their life in better shape before Katrina.

What does society do with people who don't know how to help themselves? How does American society create so many people who don't know how to help themselves?

My best guess would be that anyone taken there was someone with poor access to a decent education or strong community bonds and support, or parents, who didn't give a shit about finding a way to get them a decent education and strong community bonds and support.

Simply sad and pathetic for the U.S. no matter how you look at it. FEMA shouldn't even have to be faced with the task of housing people that poorly set up in their own lives in the first place. We can do better as a Nation.

On the upside, though I have no hope for the thugs of NOLA that were displaced, (The Yosemite Sam like character running for Governor of Texas will take care of the ones in his state if he gets elected :lol: Anyone catch him on Tucker flipping him off yesterday?:rofl2:), the impoverished younger children that were displaced into better communities and school systems may have a better chance at becoming more better established and  productive citizens who can do some good with their lives.

I think we all learned that NOLA had a tight knot of some severely impoverished and dysfunctional people who were just passing on the dysfunction from generation to generation. It needed to get busted up and disbursed if it ever had a chance of healing itself.

Who knows, maybe the peace and quiet, armed sercurity for their safety and natural beauty of the mountains where those camps were did some of those "stuck in the impoverished crime laden inner city" some good. :shrug:

That camp was only going to house them for 5 months. I wonder what became of everyone who stayed there.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: newuser1492]
    #6079303 - 09/19/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
You are asserting their existence and using them to prove a point. It is up to you to prove they exist.




the video exists, there was a subcommittee hearing regarding it, the standoff
occured, it was buried quickly, but like zappisgod says "credible sources"
I'd still like to know what exactly credible is defined by, the mass media is
a lie, the alternative press is a lie, the intarweb is a lie.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6079372 - 09/19/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Are you so fucking lazy that you can't provide links to back up your shit? Jesus, it's ridiculous already.

Are you so far gone paranoid that you think every serious media outlet is in the government's pocket? They would love this shit. It's pulitzer material, if it wasn't bullshit.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6079538 - 09/19/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

you read much more into things than is really there, are you so lazy you cant do a
little search and learn for yourself?

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6079557 - 09/19/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a plant.




evidence?


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6079747 - 09/19/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a plant.




evidence?




I've been actually thinking the exact same thing, even tho I don't post in this forum. I did earlier, concerning this topic, but deleted the post right after, not wanting to get involved. For the record, no industrial property where I live is composed a thing like in that video.
I think it's wacko to suggest that that is a typical yard. Maybe this guy should go out and take photographs of the properties in his area and post them here before suggesting such things. Problem is, he couldn't. I'm being silly even humoring his idea of things. It's pretty obvious what kind of set up that location is.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6079763 - 09/19/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you read much more into things than is really there, are you so lazy you cant do a
little search and learn for yourself?




Nope, back your shit up. Or can't you. You made statements about threads in PA&L before that were bullshit and were called on it. Maybe you should stay in the pub. They're a lot more oblivious there.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6079803 - 09/19/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a plant.




evidence?




I've been actually thinking the exact same thing, even tho I don't post in this forum. I did earlier, concerning this topic, but deleted the post right after, not wanting to get involved. For the record, no industrial property where I live is composed a thing like in that video.
I think it's wacko to suggest that that is a typical yard. Maybe this guy should go out and take photographs of the properties in his area and post them here before suggesting such things. Problem is, he couldn't. I'm being silly even humoring his idea of things. It's pretty obvious what kind of set up that location is.




You live in British Columbia. I live around NYC. What in your narcissisticly narrow experience of the world would make you think that it all looks like British Columbia? Some people are so incredibly self absorbed that they think that only what they have seen is all there is. What, are you 12? There's a whole world of shit out there that you have absolutely no idea of.

My sole point, in case anybody still doesn't get it, is that the video showed nothing unusual. Nothing at all.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6079823 - 09/19/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Shit, I've delivered pizzas to industrial complexes that looked spookier than that. :lol:

Edited by MushmanTheManic (09/19/06 08:06 PM)

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6079843 - 09/19/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a plant.




evidence?




I've been actually thinking the exact same thing, even tho I don't post in this forum. I did earlier, concerning this topic, but deleted the post right after, not wanting to get involved. For the record, no industrial property where I live is composed a thing like in that video.
I think it's wacko to suggest that that is a typical yard. Maybe this guy should go out and take photographs of the properties in his area and post them here before suggesting such things. Problem is, he couldn't. I'm being silly even humoring his idea of things. It's pretty obvious what kind of set up that location is.




Yeah and this whole "show me evidence, back your shit up" kind of mentality is really not the central point here. Actually I didn't make this thread to prove anything at all. All i made was an observation, an observation that rang a bell in my mind signaling "Wait a second, something doesnt seem right here".

And in my eyes, from the observation of the footage, this LOOKS like a detention facility to me, meant to house a large number of people, most likely citizens of the United States, operated by the military and the executive branch of our government. So this concerns me, because I have very substantial reasons to claim that our government does not have the peoples' best interest in mind. This facility alone does not bother me, the purpose behind the facility is what i am concerned about.


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Edited by AlteredAgain (09/19/06 08:12 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6080185 - 09/19/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You made statements about threads in PA&L before that were bullshit and were called on it.




like what?

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6081586 - 09/20/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone stopped to think that it's no wonder that it "doesn't look like a detainment camp". If they had razor wire and multiple guard towers, it would be obvious what it is, and it wouldn't be much of a secret then, now would it?


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:orly:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #6082424 - 09/20/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You could make that argument about damn near any structure.

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6082507 - 09/20/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That's true, and if they had facilities already in place to hold people underground we wouldn't know about that at all.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6082785 - 09/20/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You made statements about threads in PA&L before that were bullshit and were called on it.




like what?




why even ask? your wrong in his eyes, your just wrong.. there is no getting around it..

wait.. wait... hold on a minute wait

no your wrong lol

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #6083087 - 09/20/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pris, I read this forum constantly. What search words should I use to find these threads? How about this? You assert that these threads exist. That is something factual you can back up. So, how about it.





my mistake, it was in the pub, I believed it was in this forum
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5211435

Quote:

In general if only one media outlet reports something I distrust it. If several do I buy it, because there is no express conspiracy.




gadsden minute men held off the FBI for 10 days over a video tape, did you hear
about that? probably not, because a couple local stations covered it for about
30 seconds before the news was hushed... of course there is never a conspiracy




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6083384 - 09/20/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

what was the lie

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6085496 - 09/21/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You live in British Columbia. I live around NYC. What in your narcissisticly narrow experience of the world would make you think that it all looks like British Columbia? Some people are so incredibly self absorbed that they think that only what they have seen is all there is. What, are you 12? There's a whole world of shit out there that you have absolutely no idea of.

My sole point, in case anybody still doesn't get it, is that the video showed nothing unusual. Nothing at all.



You're really no good at being a troll. When I was 12 I was a far better retortist than you likely could dream of being, what with a response like yours. Again, I shouldn't be humouring, but lives in has nothing to do with travelled.
Any good-intentioned person who wanted to contest their thoughts would cut to their information, not empty slander.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6090868 - 09/22/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I hate the government. I hate Democrats at least as much as I hate Republicans. I see are rights being eroded on a daily basis. Thomas Jefferson one of the greatest thinkers and founders of the US would shit all over everyone if he saw what this country has become.

BUT if a person has absolutely no proof then they need to shut the fuck up. Reality isn't build on wishes and unicorn dreams. This is the real world and we're hopefully all adults. If you have something to say then back it the fuck up with facts. Don't expect me to believe you for any reason. You're much less credible then even the main stream media.

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Offlinesparks8
general freak
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Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Teegeeack
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: newuser1492]
    #6092035 - 09/22/06 11:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

these are nothing new. we used them during WWII they were called
internment camps. what makes anyone think we WOULDN'T have these?
does that mean they will be used to lock up all dissenters in a future police state situation? i surely wouldnt doubt it.

and yea ya gotta wonder why the barbed wire is pointing in, that aint a normal industrial complex. barred in turn styles, never seen a factory with those before. but i guess im not from NYC, and i guess that explains why zappais is such an asshole.


--------------------
buy the ticket, take the ride

Edited by sparks8 (09/22/06 11:09 PM)

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

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Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: sparks8]
    #6092065 - 09/22/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

i guess that explains why zappais is such an asshole.





No flaming in PAL. This is your only warning.

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Offlinesparks8
general freak
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Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Teegeeack
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Redstorm]
    #6092091 - 09/22/06 11:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ok so zappa can flame but i cant?

from zappas first post in this thread:"take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you"

redstorm, go play cop with your little brother or something


--------------------
buy the ticket, take the ride

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: sparks8]
    #6092201 - 09/23/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

When your friends (be they idiots or not) start posting here, those who flame them will be dealt with. If anyone flames them, of course.




Phred


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Offlinedr0mni
My Own Messiah
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: Phred]
    #6092218 - 09/23/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Everyone on this forum is so immature...

no wonder I never come to these debate forums anymore.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: sparks8]
    #6093490 - 09/23/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sparks8 said:
ok so zappa can flame but i cant?

from zappas first post in this thread:"take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you"

redstorm, go play cop with your little brother or something




More creative editing from the whiny disciples of Michael Mooron. Actual quote is:

"Feel free to take the next train out and bring all your idiot friends with you."

Totally different meaning, isn't it? Why do you feel the need to distort and lie when it's particularly easy to refute your statements? Oh wait, I know, it's because you have no alternative. Nevermind.

Unbelievable.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: dr0mni]
    #6093663 - 09/23/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
Everyone on this forum is so immature...

no wonder I never come to these debate forums anymore.




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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
Re: Video: FEMA Detention Camp [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #6093686 - 09/23/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's good to see you're rising about the level of personal insults. :smirk:

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