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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6054213 - 09/12/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
actually you can use human waste to feed algae that can be turned into bio-diesel........

and also collect methane form human waste as well



I always conceptualized it as growing mold and using that for biomass. Is it effective at all? I just think that its cool that somebody has already done this. I'm currently trying to get into biotech. I think that this would be a great field to get into.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #6056547 - 09/13/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

In Germany and China you have entire villages that run on poo.

They collect livestock & human poo and put it in a big bioreactor building, sprinkled with the right bacteria.

This gasses the poo to form Methane, which is much lighter than air, so it rises to the top of the onion-shaped bioreactor, where the gas is collected, washed and fed into the local natural gas network.

These villages are close to self-sufficient, deriving their central heating and stove gas from the poo of the livestock they raise on their farms. If the poo-to-people ratio were better, one could even use the gas to drive generators (or better: fuel cells) and get off the electric grid as well.

The bacterial mix not just turns organic waste to methane, it also reduces fixated nitrogen to inert nitrogen, which means the enviromental impact of the poo is greatly reduced.

-You raise cattle for $$
-You use their poo to get off the gas/electricity grids
-In doing so you render the poo far more enviromentally friendly

Thats win-win-win, and in some settings this already is profitable enough to economically exploit.

In China the same is being done with human poo, sewers leading to biogas plants before emptying out into the enviroment. Very promising technology once it gets beyond economic break-even: sewage disposal that produces usable energy!

Basically you do the same thing as with bio-ethanol, except you're after the gas, not the liquid, which by itself separates from the mixture rather than requiring costly distillation.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Asante]
    #6057209 - 09/13/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"
-You use their poo to get off the gas/electricity grids
-In doing so you render the poo far more enviromentally friendly
"

The problem here is the large up front cost for the bio-reactors, and the long term operating costs of harvesting transporting and using the methane...

Unless energy prices were sky high, as they probably were in the towns where it has been done, its not going to be too costly to acheieve any financial benifit.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6059953 - 09/14/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

How much has the was in Iraq cost us so far?


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #6060398 - 09/14/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

in lives or dollars?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6064255 - 09/15/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I meant dollars, but lives are an even greater commodity which we would be pretentious to even try to attach a true value to.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6064650 - 09/15/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

as they probably were in the towns where it has been done




It was in selected places with a high poo-to-people ratio and they had special kinds of transport. Its not economically viable as an energy source in most places.

If your livestock produces a lot of poo, you get to pay a lot of ecotaxes (here in Europe) which typically are calculated with nitrate emissions. The bioreactor also contains denitrifying bacteria which turn nitrate to inert nitrogen, so there is significant ecotax benefit in addition to energy production.

A problem people are unaware of is the nitrogen cycle. There is a balance in nature for fixed and inert nitrogen. The problem is that industry has found a way to fixate nitrogen (heat nitrogen gas with hydrogen and a catalyst under pressure, producing ammonia) so that theres a fixated nitrogen surplus, throwing natures balance off whack.

The irritating qualities of smog and the acidity of acid rain are for a large part a result of fixated nitrogen. Another bad effect is that 20th and 21st century warfare is made possible through artificial nitrogen fixation. Without it, the war machine could only support one or two wars a year worldwide.

The great thing recently is use of biotechnology, said bacteria, which in an enviromentally friendly way reduce the amount of "nitrogen pollution"


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: SVO diesel [Re: Lana]
    #6065934 - 09/15/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

After experimenting with other gas alternatives. I have found that some gas stations sell gas that is up to 40 50 % water.........

There is a viable way injecting the exhaust back into the gas and taking the vapours and running the car on that. The problem is that once you get most of the volatile vapours out of the gas you need to start adgetating the gas to keep the octane up. The more wateredown the gas is at the bottom the more you need to agitate.
You can there by increase your running time by 200 % with this method.

There are a lot of variables and a lot of self automated adjustments you need to do. but so far it looks good.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6066952 - 09/16/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I have found that some gas stations sell gas that is up to 40 50 % water.........




Its a hydrocarbon, I don't think you can squeeze more water in than a few percent, and that probably as an emulsion, which shows as a clouding.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Asante]
    #6067431 - 09/16/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

So gasoline doesn't pull moisture from the atmosphere? Yeah my statement might have been off.


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6068008 - 09/16/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If your gas has more than a tiny bit of water in it, your exhaust will be a dense, white cloud. A bit more, and the engine won't run at all.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #6068195 - 09/16/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, water kills fuel pumps and engines too!


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6068772 - 09/16/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zippoz said:
yeah, water kills fuel pumps and engines too!




Sounds like the environment protecting itself to me. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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