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InvisibleLuddite
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer"
    #6067069 - 09/16/06 08:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer"
But protesters were yelling too loudly to hear them.

By Andrew Cline


Being divorced from reality is what being an antiwar protester is all about. For a few hours each year you get to run around disrupting other people's lives, pretending you're doing something socially relevant, and saying things like "War doesn't solve anything" (said last weekend by New York City protester Matthew Stanton) and "If there aren't any soldiers there can't be war" (said by Alabama protester David Waters).

Aside from being great philosophers, antiwar protesters also are adept at seeing the world the way it really is. Page Getz, press coordinator for the antiwar group ANSWER, said during a protest last week in Los Angeles, "We must stop the occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, Haiti, and elsewhere. The situation in Iraq is getting worse."

Good to know that groups like ANSWER are there to correct the world's major media outlets, who last year showed Iraqis cheering Coalition troops, and who last week reported that Iraqis generally say the war had positive results. On Thursday, as Spain's Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Zapatero called the occupation of Iraq "a fiasco," a poll conducted for ABC News and the BBC found that 48 percent of Iraqis called the war "right" while only 39 percent called it "wrong," and 56 percent said their lives were better after the war. Seventy percent of Iraqis said their lives were either "very good" (13 percent) or "quite good" (57 percent). Someone should ask Howard Dean, who in January said that Iraqi living standards are "a whole lot worse now," about these results.

Seventy-one percent of Iraqis said the job market was better now than before the war. Thirty-nine percent said the availability of electricity was better after the war, compared to 25 percent who said it was worse. Fifty-four percent said security was better after the war, compared to only 26 percent who said it was worse.

On every subject, from security to medical care to schools, more Iraqis said their lives were better after the war.

So, what about antiwar protesters who insist, as one in Iowa did last week, that "What they're saying is that they are happy Saddam was taken out, but conditions are now far worse than they were under his regime"?

Jose Perez, a 39-year-old Gulf War veteran, dealt with protesters on Saturday about as effectively as anyone can. He was in Fayetteville, N.C., home of Fort Bragg, to counter-demonstrate against antiwar protesters.

"Here's the thing. We're right and they're wrong," Perez said.

Then, the Associated Press reported, "As one war protester walked by, Perez told him to get a haircut and join them."

—Andrew Cline is editorial-page editor of the Union Leader and New Hampshire Sunday News in Manchester, N.H.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2E4M2E1MWRiMGNiZGY2ZDNjMDJlMmYxMTU4ZmM0NzQ=

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6067561 - 09/16/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'd love to see a link for that poll.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6067563 - 09/16/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Posting opinion pieces would probably be more interesting if the poster was actually authoring the opinion pieces. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :levitate:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6067577 - 09/16/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I doubt its better for the dead Iraqis.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6067601 - 09/16/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well people chocolate rations are up 30% income is up 20% Government waste is down 40% Everyone in Iraq is drinking tea and eating crumpets. Nothing bad is happening.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6067661 - 09/16/06 12:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well! So glad to hear some Iraquis are getting jobs, electricity and sense of security. And to think it only had to cost the U.S. tax payers a measley 318.5 billion dollars so far to get it for them.  :smile: What a bargain! :crazy:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Darkflame]
    #6067700 - 09/16/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Darkflame said:
I doubt its better for the dead Iraqis.




Actually, it might be. Under the policy of containment roughly 10,000 Iraqis died prematurely every year after the end of the gulf war (the number is closer to 100,000 total for the years between 1991 and 1998 because the Shi'ah crack downs after the war bumped the total up). Most of these died from malnutrition, particularly as brought on by Saddam's blunders (the draining of the arable marshlands anyone?) you can read about this here: http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/steven.dav...bruary2006).pdf

Assuming these figures continued till the end of Saddam's regime (and there's no reason they shouldn't have, he didn't appear to be getting any smarter in turns of land distribution or government spending, nor were UN sanctions going to let up any time soon, so long as he kept giving handouts to suicide bombers) it's reasonable to expect between 200,000 and 600,000 premature Iraqi deaths before his regime ended naturally.

This way, the dead Iraqis at least died knowing that their families and countrymen had a chance at a better future and self-government, rather than a continuing cycle of starvation and death.

Note: I'm not pro-invasion, IMHO the better option would have been to force Saddam's regime to accept American imports and American influence, mostly through trade agreements (securing cheap oil at the same time wouldn't have been too bad). It worked with the autocrats running China, I see no reason why a concerted effort wasn't attempted with Iraq (granted it would have taken time, Nixon first began trying to open China in the 1970s).

I just think it's important to point out that the current UN-backed "containment" strategy for Iraq was no less deadly than an invasion (as of now, granted if violence continues at present levels for another 7 years or so they will have become equally deadly)

Edit: kept having trouble with the link, I think it should be okay now

Edited by Economist (09/16/06 01:19 PM)

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6067759 - 09/16/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Fifty-four percent said security was better after the war

That's a little hard to believe with a hundred thousand dead Iraqi's littering the country and hundreds of attacks a day.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Registered: 10/04/05
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--- [Re: Luddite]
    #6069816 - 09/17/06 02:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 05:02 PM)

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OfflineAndy21
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Registered: 01/01/06
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6069929 - 09/17/06 03:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So anti war protesters are divorced from reality? The vast majority of the people of the world are against the war. The vast majority of those people are provided with better less biased news coverage than America is. Ask yourself why you consistently need to post opinion pieces authored by soulless hacks to back up the blatant bullshit that this administration represents.

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Andy21]
    #6069983 - 09/17/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i wouldnt say they were divorced from reality,you have to be married to get divorced
i don't think they even dated


--------------------

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OfflineAndy21
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: quiver]
    #6070002 - 09/17/06 05:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder why the right often has to resort to name calling and trying to cast people who disagree with them as crazy or in some way mentally defective. I guess it is because they do not have enough perspective to see that sometimes debates are about the exchange of facts and not about domination.

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Invisiblequiver
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Andy21]
    #6070013 - 09/17/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i always wonder the same thing when i get called a redneck trailer trash racist even tho i've never lived in a trailer and i use 30+ sunblock and am in a mixed marriage

not to put people down for living in trailers tho,at the least they own them


--------------------

Edited by quiver (09/17/06 05:40 AM)

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InvisibleLuddite
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6071774 - 09/17/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Luddite]
    #6071958 - 09/17/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thousands of imbeciles protest the war in Iraq around the world and don't bother to find out any details about why it happened. They just think war is bad and call Bush a Nazi even if Kerry and all the Democrats voted for the war, too.

Check out what some of these Iraqi-Americans are saying about Iraq and Saddam Hussein:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june03/iraqi_3-18.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/n03282003_200303288.html

Bush meets with Iraqi-Americans: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/images/20030428-3_d042803-515h.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3545668&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Andy21]
    #6071998 - 09/17/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Andy21 said:
So anti war protesters are divorced from reality? The vast majority of the people of the world are against the war. The vast majority of those people are provided with better less biased news coverage than America is.




I completely agree that the majority of the people both within and outside America are against the war, however...

You're dreaming if you think that non-US news sources are any less biased than US news sources. If anything, the reason why so many people are agains the war outside of the US (as opposed to being more evenly split, like inside) is because of the heavy anti-war bias in media outside of the US.

This is not to say the US is doing a good job, or things are definitively better in Iraq now. It's just to say that no matter how things were going, you can bet that it was going to be reported as completely negative by the press in other countries.

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Economist]
    #6072022 - 09/17/06 08:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

More about the "lack of bias" in this country, It seems most stories about Iraq are rarely even reported, it took 5,6 months for the Haditha scandal to get out. The Media is too busy talking about John Karr or some missing white girl. People dont want to hear about war or see pictures of war in this country, Media=Ratings, nothing thats going to make americans feel like shit will be reported.

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6072060 - 09/17/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I never said there was a lack of bias in American news, in fact my phrasing, describing media from other countries as not being "any less biased" implies that there's a significant amount of bias in American news.

The reality is that there will never be an unbiased news source. Media outlets in other countries need to generate ratings just as bad as America media outlets do. Those that don't tend to get their funding from the government, and then that bias shows (compare criticisms of the British Gov't in "The Guardian" with anything the BBC has ever published).

Media outlets around the world were going to paint Iraq like a losing situation even if it wasn't, simply because people living in other countries don't want to believe that the US can lead a 150,000-strong occupation without a draft, for several years, while maintaining a growing economy, and be successful at it. No one wants to believe that, and foreign media is going to reflect that feeling among their readers.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iraqis Say "War Was The Answer" [Re: Redstorm]
    #6072227 - 09/17/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I'd love to see a link for that poll.



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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: Luddite]
    #6072943 - 09/18/06 02:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 05:03 PM)

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