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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6073177 - 09/18/06 06:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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With the money he's pissed away in Iraq and Afghanistan he could have paid off the debts of every poor country on earth.
wow, is that true? where did you read that?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6073703 - 09/18/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bin Laden is not the only problem.
Would World War 2 end, if the USA simply tried to capture/assignate Hitler??
No it wouldn't have . The organization needs to be targeted just as the leader of it. It is not a good thing that Bin Laden is alive, however, HIS ORGANIZATION has been dealt some serious setbacks.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: wilshire]
#6076905 - 09/19/06 03:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: With the money he's pissed away in Iraq and Afghanistan he could have paid off the debts of every poor country on earth.
wow, is that true? where did you read that?
It's common knowledge.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6076911 - 09/19/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Would World War 2 end, if the USA simply tried to capture/assignate Hitler??
Debateable.
The comparison isn't valid tho because launching terrorist attacks and invading countries arn't comparable. They have utterly different consequences and benefits.
The organization needs to be targeted just as the leader of it. It is not a good thing that Bin Laden is alive, however, HIS ORGANIZATION has been dealt some serious setbacks.
Well the idea is you target Bin Laden AND the members of his organisation.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6076912 - 09/19/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: You get better results by feeding people than bombing them tho.
That is complete and utter crap.. Have you ever even been to any of these countrys handing out food? No, i doubt it. The fact is, you can hand out food for days (to the same people, over and over) then to new people, after you give them some, they will come back for more two seconds later.. Then they will ask for your pants, the shirt off your back, your glasses, so on and so forth until your naked.. THEN they will be pissed because you dont have anything else to give.
They do not care, they take what they can at the time, but really anything we do they STILL dont care for us.. then proceed to put bombs on the side of the road.. That is the simple truth, this is how these people are.
Backstabbing low lifes, that is the truth. See it first hand, then come back and we can talk.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: LordSenate]
#6076918 - 09/19/06 03:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is complete and utter crap.. Have you ever even been to any of these countrys handing out food?
So how many times have you been to Northern Pakistan?
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6076921 - 09/19/06 03:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Afghanistan, ive been. Iraq, im here. The majority of muslims (A HUGE majority) show the exact same face, no matter where you go. Ive dealt with pakistanis on the border as well, havent changed anything. How close have you been?
Im not trying to brag, just giving you a reality check, your living in a dream world, not reality.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: LordSenate]
#6076922 - 09/19/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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So you think every single human being in Northern Pakistan would place a bomb beside an american tank? Seriously? You don't think that most of them might be like most human beings everywhere else in the world and just want to make things better for their families?
Are you sure you arn't sterotyping people a little?
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6076925 - 09/19/06 04:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dont get me wrong, I agree with you not all of them are bad.. I agree, I really do.
See the thing is, the people you speak of that just want to be normal human beings hide behind the very same people that try and kill us. Most of them know whos doing it, they just wont say anything. Isnt that being guilty in and of itself?
The same way Pakistan hides the taliban. Isnt that the same thing?
How would you feel if you hand out food, and toys to a village, then people from that very same village try and kill you going down the road 10 minutes later.
They may want to make their families lives better, but most of them do it at the cost of others, because honestly they really dont care.
Edited by LordSenate (09/19/06 04:08 AM)
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: LordSenate]
#6076929 - 09/19/06 04:10 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most of them know whos doing it, they just wont say anything
Do you blame them? You wouldn't say anything either if you were living in a town with armed militants on the loose.
How would you feel if you hand out food, and toys to a village, then people from that very same village try and kill you going down the road 10 minutes later.
Would they try and kill you if instead of invading you were providing housing, water and food tho? It's no use handing a few toys out if you're going to drive a hundred yards up the road and start blasting fuck out of something with a tank is it.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6076931 - 09/19/06 04:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its not like we go around shooting stuff.. We dont even shoot anything! Your not here, or there to know the reality. We barely even shoot back! We let them flee away, thats all.. We dont demolish anything.. All we do is try and help them rebuild, figure out what they need, and give it to them, thats all.. Train the iraqi police, army etc.
"Do you blame them? You wouldn't say anything either if you were living in a town with armed militants on the loose. "
Not per say, but really does it matter if they turn around and blow them up right after not saying anything anyways? Or kidnap them, and slit there throats, or shoot them in the face, for no apparent reason, other then to make havoc?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: LordSenate]
#6077000 - 09/19/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alex213 stated : Well the idea is you target Bin Laden AND the members of his organization
In order to do what you finally admit, the war in Afghanistan needed to take place. There is no way to take on an organization of terrorists with just a squad of Delta Force. Massive troop concentrations, search and destroy missions, coupled with reconnaissance, (all of which have taken place), have crippled Al Queda in Afghanistan. Granted there are still some left, but it is a FAR cry from before we went in.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6077367 - 09/19/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said:
Quote:
wilshire said: With the money he's pissed away in Iraq and Afghanistan he could have paid off the debts of every poor country on earth.
wow, is that true? where did you read that?
It's common knowledge.
It certainly is not. Either provide some proof or zip it.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Redstorm]
#6081267 - 09/20/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Alex213 said:
Quote:
wilshire said: With the money he's pissed away in Iraq and Afghanistan he could have paid off the debts of every poor country on earth.
wow, is that true? where did you read that?
It's common knowledge.
It certainly is not. Either provide some proof or zip it.
It certainly is. Hasn't it ever crossed your mind how much is owed in debt by poor countries of the world to the rich? I've encountered figures for this every time I've read about the subject for the last 20 years. Pick up any book on it.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6081269 - 09/20/06 04:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Alex213 stated : Well the idea is you target Bin Laden AND the members of his organization
In order to do what you finally admit, the war in Afghanistan needed to take place. There is no way to take on an organization of terrorists with just a squad of Delta Force. Massive troop concentrations, search and destroy missions, coupled with reconnaissance, (all of which have taken place), have crippled Al Queda in Afghanistan. Granted there are still some left, but it is a FAR cry from before we went in.
So how many leaders of Al-qaeda were captured by the invasion of Afghanistan? I can't think of any.
Has the rate of al-qaeda attacks increased or decreased since invading Afghanistan? You'd have to say it's increased.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6081322 - 09/20/06 06:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Obviously their is going to be an increase in attacks after an invasion. They got their ass handed to them, so they are going to start resisting even harder, thats the way it goes. But if you think that they have gained any power, and that they havent lost strength, you need to take yet another reality check. They are on the run, and that is the truth.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6081477 - 09/20/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: It certainly is. Hasn't it ever crossed your mind how much is owed in debt by poor countries of the world to the rich? I've encountered figures for this every time I've read about the subject for the last 20 years. Pick up any book on it.
It's common knowledge that third world has a lot of debt, but that's not the claim in question. The claim was that Bush has spent enough on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to pay off all those debts. Can you back it up or not?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
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Last seen: 46 minutes, 5 seconds
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: Alex213]
#6081822 - 09/20/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Alex213 stated : Well the idea is you target Bin Laden AND the members of his organization
In order to do what you finally admit, the war in Afghanistan needed to take place. There is no way to take on an organization of terrorists with just a squad of Delta Force. Massive troop concentrations, search and destroy missions, coupled with reconnaissance, (all of which have taken place), have crippled Al Queda in Afghanistan. Granted there are still some left, but it is a FAR cry from before we went in.
So how many leaders of Al-qaeda were captured by the invasion of Afghanistan? I can't think of any.
Has the rate of al-qaeda attacks increased or decreased since invading Afghanistan? You'd have to say it's increased.
Mohammed Atef is the first one that comes to mind. Most others were killed in other countores because they scattered like cockroaches when The USA went into Afganistan.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/hl928.cfm
Bin Laden undoubtedly sought to provoke an American invasion of Afghanistan that would allow him to reassume his 1980s role as a glamorous resistance leader and galvanize support from the Muslim world. But bin Laden underestimated the United States, which did not fight wars the same ponderous way that his Soviet foes did. Moreover, bin Laden overestimated his own support in Afghanistan and elsewhere. After chafing under the harsh rule of the Taliban, whose radical Islamic ideology clashed with the tolerant traditional Islam of the Afghan countryside, many Afghans chose to fight against bin Laden and his Taliban allies.
In addition to the forces deployed to Afghanistan, the United States and its allies have waged a grinding war of attrition against al-Qaeda elsewhere in the world. More than three-quarters of al-Qaeda's known pre-9/11 leaders have been captured or killed. These include: Mohammed Atef, al-Qaeda's senior field commander, killed in a bombing raid in Afghanistan; Abu Zubaida, Atef's replacement as field commander, captured in Pakistan; Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the September 11 attacks, captured in Pakistan; Ramzi Binalshibh, a coordinator of the September 11 attacks, captured in Pakistan; Hambali, a top strategist for al-Qaeda's affiliated group, Jemaah Islamiah, captured in Thailand; and Hamzah al-Rabbiyah al-Masri, a key operational leader killed in Pakistan. More than 4,000 suspected al-Qaeda members have been arrested worldwide since September 11, 2001. Al-Qaeda cells have been uncovered, dismantled, and disrupted in Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. More than $140 million of its assets have been blocked in over 1,400 bank accounts worldwide.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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shroom_me
Stranger


Registered: 10/06/06
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Re: If Bush wasn't a gutless coward [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6148164 - 10/08/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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This whole war is bull anyways but since we have started a fight with Iraq and Afghanistan I think it would be stupid to just pack up and leave(suicidal!) I agree that Pakistan is the problem as well as Iran but their fucking crazy and we dint wanna blow up the world. So we should either put up or SHUT UP. But America has to wake the fuck up first. Doubt that will happen in time.. Too Sad..
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