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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Al Quiada
#6060386 - 09/14/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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It pisses you off that they wanted to bomb people at a funeral?
That makes me sick too.
If however, you are suggesting bombing defenseless people who are honoring their dead beloved was the right thing to do, you sir, are one sick fuck.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Al Quiada is simply the repercussion of global negligence, the last refuge of the raped and hopeless...
They are the repercussion of souls left infuriated long after their means to defend themselves have been obliterated.
This global war is simply a game to the United States, what the ignorant fools fail to realize is that necessity is the driving force of life. It does not matter how nicely you write the rules, once your have taken your opponent's pieces pieces and continued to rape him, the rules will begin writing themselves.
The more tightly you clench your fist, the more sand will flow through your fingers.
The hand is American capitalist totalitarianism.
Groups like Al Quiada, and acts like terrorism/suicide bombings are lessons from the universe, teaching us only the consequences of our own actions or inactions.
It does not matter how right America believes it is, or how many 'terrorists' (or 'witches') they murder... once they all lay dead the lessons will keep coming... school shootings... rape and torture in our own prisons...
The only thing that can possibly quench our hatred is our total annihilation.
That, or tolerance, humility, and understanding.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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TheJakeyl88
RememberInfinity.

Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 222
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Al-Qaida, Al-Qaeda, Al-Quiada whichever way you want to spell it, DOESNT EXIST. It never existed, ever. And it will never exist, its completely fictional and was created by our government and media as a blanket name for Bin Laden's Mujahideen that was trained by the CIA to fight off the Russian's in Afghanistan.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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So you are saying that the World Trade Center attacks was a neccesity for the US for us to realize our mistakes in controling Al Quiada?
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said: It pisses you off that they wanted to bomb people at a funeral?
That makes me sick too.
If however, you are suggesting bombing defenseless people who are honoring their dead beloved was the right thing to do, you sir, are one sick fuck.
I second that!
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: StroFun]
#6060589 - 09/14/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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OK a funeral would be a horrible site to kill off people, but wasn't killing childred on an airplane possibly going to a funeral even worse?
BY the way, you both aren't from the US, are ya'll?
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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I don't care how self righteous you are TrancedShroom.
All you want to do is pour fuel on the fire.
You have much more in common than you think with the people flying those planes into those towers. The biggest difference I see is they were willing to give their lives to do it.
Edit: you're shooting at ghosts of your own hate. one day they will be in the bodies of your very children.
Edit Edit: and no, I'm not for the US, I'm not for any flag, I'm for the future of humanity.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (09/14/06 12:24 PM)
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Damn how can you closely relate me to them?!
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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UH what does our location have to do with anything? What are you thinking maybe if we aren't from the US we haven't been exposed to US propganda? You are a sheep! In America a statement like that can be construed as racist.
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: StroFun]
#6060628 - 09/14/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You and terrorist are both fueled by hatred.
Violence creates violence. Do you really think declaring war on an entire religion is going to make the world love our country? Do you really think that by bombing them they are going to stop and say, "Hey come on guys let all hold hands and sing."
Yeah i don't think so and before you go spouting off any more Bush fed garbage you should know that you are in the MINORITY of the country in your support for the war.
Honestly, i don't blame the people in iraqq teaching their kids to hate Americans because you cannot honestly believe that the war in Iraq and september 11 (11 of the 13 hijackers are SAUDIs NOT IRAQIES) hasn't bred hatred for all muslims and middle eastern people in the states. If they came over here and attacked our country i'll be damned if you can convince me that there wouldn't be some fucked up redneck giving his 2 year old a rifle to shoot at them with! The argument that they hate us and want to kill us is no excuse for the deep seeded hatred we have for the Iraqies that Bush has programmed into the lesser citizens such as yourself.
Edited by StroFun (09/14/06 12:40 PM)
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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I can relate you two as closely as cause and effect, my friend.
Open your eyes, mind, and heart and both of your wounds will heal.
Their need to kill will die as quickly as your need to fear.
The real trick is going to be convincing the guys making money off all this death of the same thing.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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This mystery "time" is just something we have to work around... I mean sure, you can use the fact that they attacked you FIRST with their planes to justify yourself... and likewise the Arabs can use the fact that American cultural pressure ruined their lives FIRST to justify their attack...
But this right to kill you so powerfully crave, is nothing other than the right to have another place hit another tower.
It's a very hard thing to accept, and in the end it is our choice. The right to live, or the right to die. Not both.
But I have to go learn some 'engineering ethics' right now (more like engineering your way around ethics ) so I must leave you.
Just know that in the end, I want you to come out my friend. And I want the same for the terrorists.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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The right?
Also you knock me for my studying ethics and degree too? Wow, thanks! friend.
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Quote:
TrancedShroom said: The right?
Also you knock me for my studying ethics and degree too? Wow, thanks! friend.
Does that make sense to anyone else?
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CptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: StroFun]
#6060792 - 09/14/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
StroFun said:
Quote:
TrancedShroom said: The right?
Also you knock me for my studying ethics and degree too? Wow, thanks! friend.
Does that make sense to anyone else?
no, but if explosivemango is really an explosive mango, i wouldnt be backtalking him unless you prefer burnt mango chunks IN YOUR EYE
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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You said that Al Quiada had the right to fly the planes into the buildings.
That is a sign of sheer disrespect.
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Dihnekis
Stranger

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 906
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I'm actually proud of our military for not bombing them. Sure, they would probably have jumped ate the chance to do so to us (well who knows, I imagine there are probably a few honorable taliban), but we have to show the separation between us and them.
For once we did something right.
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Quote:
TrancedShroom said: You said that Al Quiada had the right to fly the planes into the buildings.
That is a sign of sheer disrespect.
What does respect have to do with advocating or not advocating death? So correct me if i'm wrong but you are saying that if i spat on your shoes you could justify dropping a bomb on me at my mother's funeral?
Edited by StroFun (09/14/06 02:25 PM)
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: StroFun]
#6061171 - 09/14/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
StroFun said:
Quote:
TrancedShroom said: You said that Al Quiada had the right to fly the planes into the buildings.
That is a sign of sheer disrespect.
What does respect have to do with advocating or not advocating death? So correct me if i'm wrong but you are saying that if i spat on your shoes you could justify dropping a bomb on me at my mother's funeral?
Big difference there buddy! Al Quiada didn't spit on our shoes. They killed thousands of people in one day's time. Do not correlate you off the wall comparisons with large scale attacks such as the dilemma going on between the US and Al Quiada.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Quote:
TrancedShroom said: You said that Al Quiada had the right to fly the planes into the buildings.
That is a sign of sheer disrespect.
Poor confused boy 
Clearly you wish to misread my context...
Let me 'dumb it down a shade'
Your BELIEF it's OK to shoot an Arab in the head because he belongs to the same organization that may have crashed a plane into your tower is...
***EXACTLY SYMMETRICAL TO***
...an ignorant Arab child's BELIEF that it's ok to crash a plane into your tower because you belong to the same country that may have shot his father in the head.
And the bullets and suicide-planes are just going to keep flying until you change your mind...
If you WANT THESE EVENTS TO CONTINUE- continue them. If you WANT TO STOP THESE EVENTS- then stop.
Just don't expect this lesson to go away until you've learned it damn well... ...the amount of blood shed in the process is entirely UP TO YOU.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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It is called vengeance........get used to it.
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wortiesbo


Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 866
Loc: new vegas
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
TheJakeyl88 said: Al-Qaida, Al-Qaeda, Al-Quiada whichever way you want to spell it, DOESNT EXIST. It never existed, ever. And it will never exist, its completely fictional and was created by our government and media as a blanket name for Bin Laden's Mujahideen that was trained by the CIA to fight off the Russian's in Afghanistan.
go away hippie... nobody wants to hear anymore crackpot theories..
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Quote:
TrancedShroom said: It is called vengeance........get used to it.
I'm plenty used to it... I'm damn tired of it myself...
Too bad there's so many sick fucks out there who enjoy death so much...
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
TrancedShroom said: It is called vengeance........get used to it.
I'm plenty used to it... I'm damn tired of it myself...
Too bad there's so many sick fucks out there who enjoy death so much...
Keeps the population down.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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...can we get a ban in here?
Clearly this boy has lost the fight with his brain... the rest of us don't deserve to suffer for it...
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Unfortunately for you freedom of speech in the Shroomery goes. As long as it doesn't offend the majority of people, direct offensive remarks, or insulting the MODS.
So deal with it!
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CptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said: ...can we get a ban in here?
Clearly this boy has lost the fight with his brain... the rest of us don't deserve to suffer for it...
the rest of us dont want to suffer with you being such a pokey mcturd yourself. if your so into setting aside differences and getting along then
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Quote:
ShroomieOfDoomie said:
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said: ...can we get a ban in here?
Clearly this boy has lost the fight with his brain... the rest of us don't deserve to suffer for it...
the rest of us dont want to suffer with you being such a pokey mcturd yourself. if your so into setting aside differences and getting along then
^^^^^ I think he drank your cup of coffee.
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CptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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i dont know what your talking about with this cup of coffee stuff, if you feel im defending you, you got another thing comin'
i just felt he was being contradicting by talking about how we should reason by being rude to you and asking to ban you. I am in no way defending you, just poiting out that hes a mcturd. He made alot of good realizations though.
-SoD
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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I dont give a shit less if you are defending me. Dont stroke your ego there too much buddy.
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Akamatsu
Seeker

Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 285
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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You're a terrible person TrancedShroom.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: Akamatsu]
#6062568 - 09/14/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why?
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Akamatsu
Seeker

Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 285
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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I hope it's just because you're ignorant and still blinded by 9/11, but your lack of respect for human life is depressing.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: Akamatsu]
#6062598 - 09/14/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am glad you think that way.....thanks for the compliment
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Quote:
ShroomieOfDoomie said: i dont know what your talking about with this cup of coffee stuff, if you feel im defending you, you got another thing comin'
i just felt he was being contradicting by talking about how we should reason by being rude to you and asking to ban you. I am in no way defending you, just poiting out that hes a mcturd. He made alot of good realizations though.
-SoD
I guess I just feel I can speak on this communities behalf when I say praise of murder is not acceptable...
That sort of cavalier attitude toward killing is exactly why George Bush is where he is today, I hope you realize this...
My stance is about making the change to stop the violence through non-violence... not about tolerance of violence... I'm really fairly certain that a vast majority of the people here share this view...
I was only happy to talk to him kindly while I thought he was acting out of pure ignorance. (you have to admit he appears very ignorant) I in no way wanted to suggest I believed it was appropriate to start a thread saying a funeral SHOULD HAVE BEEN BOMBED. It's just sick, we should be able to recognize this here.
Should I start a poll?
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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CptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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while i dont agree with him, theres nothing you can do to change his mind. you planted your seed, you set rain, now all you can do is hope it sprouts and he grows to be a more mature being.
dont start a poll, are you enjoying this arguement? while I stand for the same thing you stand for, these people dont deserve your energy. If he has posted here, hes here because of mushrooms. Leave it to the mushrooms to help him realize things, concentrate on something more important.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Ya'll are just retarded hippies. I never said killing is good, all I said was that it was a really good opportunity to strike a terroristic threat that we are at war with.
Stop acting like pussies and just realize that my country is at war with another country that took the lives of thousands of people in a few hours because they hate AMerica is free. Stop crying!
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Quote:
ShroomieOfDoomie said: while i dont agree with him, theres nothing you can do to change his mind. you planted your seed, you set rain, now all you can do is hope it sprouts and he grows to be a more mature being.
dont start a poll, are you enjoying this arguement? while I stand for the same thing you stand for, these people dont deserve your energy. If he has posted here, hes here because of mushrooms. Leave it to the mushrooms to help him realize things, concentrate on something more important.
While I understand your opinions don't agree with him, I think you need to take a good look at who your ACTIONS agree with.
Every day we allow this sort of arrogance and hate to flourish, is a day closer to the death of us all.
While I do not enjoy this argument in the slightest, I have to take social responsibility to prevent this sort of person from continuing to develop along this path to destruction.
Although I understand I cannot attack this individual, (all I could prove then would be human hypocrisy) I must do something. Social criticism is a far cry less than violence, and if more people stand up with me against this sort of attitude, people like TrancedShroom can receive the SHAME and GUILT they require to allow our world to survive. We must show them these feelings so that the second they see them, we can be there to heal them and lead them into a better life (for us all).
Until people like this learn to respect human rights, they should be the ones filling our prisons. Not the potheads.
That being said, I believe you and I have reached an understanding of each other's argument Shroomie, and I will not persist farther in this thread.
Just please, think about your actions as well as your intentions.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (09/15/06 08:58 AM)
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chaos05
Stranger

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 290
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Whatever you do, dont think outside the box, follow the masses, its safer that way - LOL
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CptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 15 years, 25 days
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Re: Al Quiada [Re: chaos05]
#6064517 - 09/15/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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hes already in good hands if hes made it to the widest collective vibe source on the net, and we all know here that learning by experience is the best way to go about it.
however i guess you feel its your duty to train the troops, your gonna have just as much luck converting him to our side as the government would converting one of us to them. beliefs are a persons own, and they come from personal experience.
if he chooses to believe the media hype, let him. its the whole planting the seed that makes any difference at all, and your way overwatering it, giving him a reason not to give in to your words, since your attacking him with them.
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TrancedShroom
Mr. Hanky


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 8,002
Loc: Rippin Waves
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
ShroomieOfDoomie said: while i dont agree with him, theres nothing you can do to change his mind. you planted your seed, you set rain, now all you can do is hope it sprouts and he grows to be a more mature being.
dont start a poll, are you enjoying this arguement? while I stand for the same thing you stand for, these people dont deserve your energy. If he has posted here, hes here because of mushrooms. Leave it to the mushrooms to help him realize things, concentrate on something more important.
While I understand your opinions don't agree with him, I think you need to take a good look at who your ACTIONS agree with.
Every day we allow this sort of arrogance and hate to flourish, is a day closer to the death of us all.
While I do not enjoy this argument in the slightest, I have to take social responsibility to prevent this sort of person from continuing to develop along this path to destruction.
I am already developed, I, am a Jedi Master!
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zeegos
Shroomagator


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 827
Loc: bat country
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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they should have been wiped out with a 500lb bomb
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TheJakeyl88
RememberInfinity.

Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 222
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Go away hippie? Crackpot theories? I don't think so. For your info, I'm far far far far far from being a "hippie" whatever that even means since its a stereotype anyways. And in no way is it a "theory" ANYONE that doesn't want to interpret this war on terror and/or the reasons behind it from a Fox News telecast, or a few lousy written uninformed paragraphs from your local newspaper. The facts are the facts, and the facts are that Al-Qaida doesn't exist, and the media and G.W. use the term JUST LIKE you use "hippie" to describe me, loosly and to no value. The Afghan Mujahideen were trained by the CIA and ARMED by the CIA to fight the Russian's in Afghanistan. If you can't believe that part of it, you need to go back to 8th grade history class, or maybe even freshmen year of high school's WORLD HISTORY. I'm sure the teachers there will have no problem telling you exactly who, where and how an Arab army was formed, funded and trained. To make a long story short, Saudi princes rejected the Mujahideen after the conflict with Russia, these soldiers had no homeland, no where to go, no jobs, ect ect and of course we knew this and decided to blame them for 9/11 and call them Al-Qaida. All you need is a little history lesson straight from the books at ANY school and you'll see everything in there as the truth. I'm no hippie, and I make no crackpot theories, only what I can conclude from 1,000,000's of puzzle peices of information I have researched and collected throughout the years and anyone that knows anything about history cannot deny the fact that the CIA trained and funded the so called Al-Qaida we see today, and who this Al-Qaida really is which is an Arab army that we made to fight off the Russian's in Afghanistan, and after the conflict they had nothing to do but live and breath as an army like they were trained to do. Unfortunetly the world turned on them, blamed them terror attacks they had NOTHING to do with, and started killing them and stealing their resources. It was an excuse to start the war on terror and was planned many many many many years before 9/11.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Quote:
TrancedShroom said: Ya'll are just retarded hippies. I never said killing is good, all I said was that it was a really good opportunity to strike a terroristic threat that we are at war with.
Stop acting like pussies and just realize that my country is at war with another country that took the lives of thousands of people in a few hours because they hate AMerica is free. Stop crying!
You have to realize that this board is full of pussies. Some people just turn into vaginas when they take drugs, it's natural.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Quote:
downforpot said:
Quote:
TrancedShroom said: Ya'll are just retarded hippies. I never said killing is good, all I said was that it was a really good opportunity to strike a terroristic threat that we are at war with.
Stop acting like pussies and just realize that my country is at war with another country that took the lives of thousands of people in a few hours because they hate AMerica is free. Stop crying!
You have to realize that this board is full of pussies. Some people just turn into vaginas when they take drugs, it's natural.
That's if you believe Muslims were behind 9/11, but that is for another thread.
It's people like you two that have made this world into what it is, I hope you like nuclear war, tough guys.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Economist
in training


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said: The hand is American capitalist totalitarianism.
Groups like Al Quiada, and acts like terrorism/suicide bombings are lessons from the universe, teaching us only the consequences of our own actions or inactions.
It does not matter how right America believes it is, or how many 'terrorists' (or 'witches') they murder... once they all lay dead the lessons will keep coming... school shootings... rape and torture in our own prisons...
The only thing that can possibly quench our hatred is our total annihilation.
That, or tolerance, humility, and understanding.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...
I couldn't agree with this sentiment any less. (That does NOT mean I'm down with blowing up people at a funeral) I don't think that tolerance, humility, or understanding (at least on our part) is the key, nor do I think that American "capitalist totalitarianism" has anything to do with it.
The problem really is with the governments of South-West Asia.
Look at it this way - countries like China, India, the Philippines, why don't they produce terrorists as readily as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or pre-invasion Afghanistan?
Because all of those countries recognized at some point in their past that the only way to truly better their own people was by transitioning towards a more open, business/trade friendly society.
Look at China. Deng Xiao-Ping began implementing reforms as early as the 1970s towards capitalism. Today you can own not only private property, but private businesses, and corporations are allowed in what used to be one of the most socialistic nations in the world. What was the result? An economy that outgrows anyone else, an explosion in employment, and soaring standards of living. Even in rural areas of China, where living conditions are bad compared with the urban areas, they are still well above and beyond where they were 10 years ago.
No one is going to be a terrorist if they have a good job, food, and friends.
But then you have this other group of nations, run by groups like the Taleban, who claim (despite empirical evidence to the contrary) that the only way to success is a return to religious conservatism and Sharia Law.
So what happens there? Employment plummets, people starve, and anger festers. Soon enough it becomes very easy to blame others for the problems created by yourself. The Americans only have enough jobs because they are the devil. If only the Israelis hadn't taken our traditional land we'd have all we needed. Never mind the ridiculous trade barriers, import quotas, tariffs, execessive taxes, limits on research, etc. that Islamic-based governments impose on themselves.
So tell me, in this tale-of-two-approaches, how will tolerance, humility, or understanding on the part of America help the situation at all?
We tolerated the Islamic governments cracking down on their own people for decades, ruining domestic economies and ending employment. We were humble for years, especially during the Presidencies of Carter and Clinton, and yet during both those periods enemies of America grew, organized, and planned attacks against us.
Finally, we fully understand why they hate us. They're poor, they have poor job prospects, and few ways to achieve a better life. We also understand why, and we're not the only ones, as stated above other nations have learned that closed societies and government crack downs eliminate jobs and lead to a bleak future.
America can sit back and continue to be tolerant, humble, and understanding. However, until such time as Islamist governments recognize the need for free and open societies, America will continue to be attacked.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Who are these people and where the fuck did this thread come from?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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5'll get ya 10 that none of the original loons will follow this thread and it will degenerate into a downforpot vs alpharedecho bitch fight. You guys should get a room.
And, word to redecho, it was Muslims. Or were you being facetious? It's hard to tell sometimes when you girls get going.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Quote:
Economist said:
No one is going to be a terrorist if they have a good job, food, and friends.
I find this statement to be quite wrong, we have seen countless examples of the opposite. That said, I agree that on the whole, a thriving society is a lot less likely to create terrorists.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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There is no shortage of deranged navel gazing whiners who identify with "oppressed" chumps. There seems to be a particularly fertile pool of such neurotics in the 16 to 22 age group who are susceptible to the rantings of various svengali like figures like OBL, Charles Manson, Michael Moore, Alex Jones, Dan Rather, et al. (alright alright, Dan Rather was gratuitous. He's still a fathead.)
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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I was simply stating fact, not identifying with anything. You put a spin on everything, don't you.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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That was not specifically directed at anyone, just a general statement of fact, which was actually in agreement with you.
And my first question remains unanswered. Who the fuck are these people and where did this thread come from?
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Don't insult my intellegence, we both know you were referring to me.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Al-Qaida, Al-Qaeda, Al-Quiada whichever way you want to spell it, DOESNT EXIST. It never existed, ever. And it will never exist, its completely fictional and was created by our government and media as a blanket name for Bin Laden's Mujahideen that was trained by the CIA to fight off the Russian's in Afghanistan.
This is quite correct. Many do not know that Al-qaida that you know of now is a name given to them by the US govt. We needed to attach a name to them so we could go after them with anti-mafia laws in the early 90s. We used the name of one of the bases in afganistan as a label for anyone committing terrorism that didn't fall under another already established group.
What they consider themselves may be a totally different name. We just call them what we want because frankly america needs a finger to point at for it's problems and it's easier to give the ignorant masses of america a single name to curse.
As for bombing a funeral I am glad that it did not happen but I am highly skeptical as to the reality of this claim. It seems like a PR story for the military more than anything. "Look everyone! We seen a bunch of bad guys at a funeral and we didn't kill them out of respect, see we are the good guys!" I don't buy it, this story just screams public relations.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Rosetta, actually Israeli pilots also missed targets on purpose too after they were ordered to bomb a house in a populated area . So instead of dropping the bombs on the target they dropped them in a deserted area.
There is an article posted on here or bluelight about that happening during the war. It was also posted by some1 that opposed Israelis tactics.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (09/15/06 04:34 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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whoa whoah woah...........
Quote:
Economist said: No one is going to be a terrorist if they have a good job, food, and friends.
Bin Laden's family is very wealthy, he was eating quite well, had friends spanning the globe when he turned to terrorizing others. 
You may want to rethink your current paradigm on how this works. 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Economist
in training


Registered: 10/11/05
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I don't really need to "re-think" anything.
Bin Laden is convinced he is fighting on behalf of the downtrodden. He's just too stupid to realize what the real cause of their suffering is. If the Islamic world was as wealthy as the western world, Bin Laden probably would have never done anything more than real estate financing.
The root of the problem is the same: Islamic governments cause suffering midst their own people.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

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I believe bin laden's viewpoint is largely due to his sympathy for the majority of the arab population which is desperately poor while having US supported govts who are wealthy beyond imagining.
So in a sense, if the majority of arabs had a good job, food and other necessities in adequate numbers bin laden's life and viewpoint would be very different.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Quote:
Economist said: Bin Laden is convinced he is fighting on behalf of the downtrodden
By bombing wealthy Americans? So what, his plan is that america will respond to the attack by working to reform their nations policies to open free trade so everyone is employed, with good pay and can make friends? 

He wants Israel to give the holy land back to Palestine and for the U.S. to stop protecting and defending Israel and for the U.S. to get out of trying to make reform policies in their Nations.
If he truly gave a shit about the down trodden in his region who are not eating, working and are without friends, he would use his families wealth to create more jobs, free food shelters and social clubs as well as use his families influence with his regions leaders to make their Nations be more like the U.S. and China that has open trade, which according to what I have been reading from your view, somehow magically solves all human tendencies towards greed, hate and desires for power over others.
Please tell us how he thought spending years of his time and money planning to blow up american buildings with american planes was going to help the down trodden in his region.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
alpharedecho said: Don't insult my intellegence, we both know you were referring to me.
No, I was not referring to you. I do not think you are a candidate for suicide bombing or columbine. That was the navel gazing type neurotic sucker I was referring to, not their enablers, which is another kind of neurotic navel gazing nitwit. Not that I mean that you're one of them either. Narcissistic certainly, but probably not neurotic.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: I believe bin laden's viewpoint is largely due to his sympathy for the majority of the Arab population which is desperately poor while having US supported govts who are wealthy beyond imagining.
So in a sense, if the majority of Arabs had a good job, food and other necessities in adequate numbers bin laden's life and viewpoint would be very different.
I am going to re- clarify my position and reason for jumping into this thread.
Eco said that people with jobs, food and friends do not become terrorists. I already pointed out how that is FALSE.
He then backed it up by saying, countries that have open trade policies do not breed terrorist and that open trade was the solution to stooping terrorist attacks and bombings on innocents.
Timothy McVay anyone?
Open trade may have virtues for putting the world in Nike's and Micky Ds at every street corner, but curing psychotic human mental and emotional disorders isn't one of them.
There is a group of Aborigines that are living quite peacefully, well fed and with a strong sense of friends family and community in Australias outback who live completely independent from the system of global open trade, materialism and economics.
Read Mutant Message from Down Under. It's awesome 
Anyway, I don't want to argue anything. I just wanted to correct what eco said about well fed, working people with friends do not become terrorists and that open trade is the solution to preventing terrorists acts, small or large, upon others. Not true as I have pointed out.
He's gotta look for his causes and solutions elsewhere. 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Economist
in training


Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1,285
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: He wants Israel to give the holy land back to Palestine and for the U.S. to stop protecting and defending Israel and for the U.S. to get out of trying to make reform policies in their Nations.
This is one of the biggest misconceptions about Bin Laden.
The reality is, he doesn't really give a shit about the plight of the Palestinian people.
Bin Laden is primarily concerned with the Saudi Monarchy and how they govern their country. Look up his comments on the Saudi Monarchy if you don't believe me, his public comments putting them down begin around 1990-91. The anti-Israel crap didn't start entering his speached until the late 1990s (usually 1998 is the attributed year because of the fatwa, but a handful of comments came earlier), mostly to rile people up. His stated long-stated goal has been to "free Mecca" which he feels is under occupation, as long as the American military is aiding the "corrupt Saudi monarchy".
Again, this is all because he feels that the Saudi government has vastly mismanaged its people (and so we get into the whole starving bit) and he believes the monarchy have allowed America to grow richer while Islamic peoples suffer.
Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: If he truly gave a shit about the down trodden in his region who are not eating, working and are without friends, he would use his families wealth to create more jobs, free food shelters and social clubs as well as use his families influence with his regions leaders to make their Nations be more like the U.S. and China that has open trade, which according to what I have been reading from your view, somehow magically solves all human tendencies towards greed, hate and desires for power over others.
His problem is that he holds ultra-nationalistic beliefs. He thinks that the only solution for Islamic countries to to adopt more and more extreme views of Islam. Look at his complaints: The Saudi government invited the US to help protect their country, and Bin Laden views this as a foreign occupation invited in by a corrupt monarch. At the time, Bin Laden wanted to resist Saddam by himself with a make-shift army, an offer the Saudi government turned him down on.
I don't know why he thinks that ultra-nationalism is going to work, I have a hard time finding any example of it ever working.
But therein lies the problem. There are people (and governments) in this world that are committed to approaches towards "self-betterment" which are complete dead ends. As long as those people are allowed to influence policy, we're basically screwed.
I don't think regime change is the answer, but it's clear that changes do need to be made on their end, not ours.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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"Since the attack [9-11], I have seen, heard, and read thoughts of such surpassing stupidity that they must be addressed. You've heard them too.
Here they are:
1) "We're not good, they're not evil, everything is relative."
Listen carefully: We're good, they're evil, nothing is relative. Say it with me now and free yourselves. You see, folks, saying "We're good" doesn't mean, "We're perfect." Okay? The only perfect being is the bearded guy on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. The plain fact is that our country has, with all our mistakes and blunders, always been and always will be the greatest beacon of freedom, charity, opportunity, and affection in history. If you need proof, open all the borders on Earth and see what happens.
2) "Violence only leads to more violence."
This one is so stupid you usually have to be the president of an Ivy League university to say it. Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully thought through, professional, well executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead. Not "on trial," not reeducated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead.
3) "The CIA and the rest of our intelligence community have failed us."
For 25 years we have chained our spies like dogs to a stake in the ground, and now that the house has been robbed, we yell at them for not protecting us. Starting in the late seventies, under Carter appointee Stansfield Turner, the giant brains who get these giant ideas decided that the best way to gather international intelligence was to use spy satellites. "After all, (they reasoned,) you can see a license plate from 200 miles away." This is very helpful if you've been attacked by a license plate. Unfortunately, we were attacked by humans. Finding humans is not possible with satellites. You have to use other humans. When we bought all our satellites, we fired all our humans, and here's the really stupid part. It takes years, decades to infiltrate new humans into the worst places of the world. You can't just have a guy who looks like Gary Busey in a Spring Break '93 sweatshirt plop himself down in a coffee shop in Kabul and say "Hiya, boys. Gee, I sure would like to meet that bin Laden fella. "Well, you can, but all you'd be doing is giving the bad guys a story they'll be telling for years.
4) "These people are poor and helpless, and that's why they're angry at us."
Uh-huh, and Jeffrey Dahmer's frozen head collection was just a desperate cry for help. The terrorists and their backers are richer than Elton John and, ironically, a good deal less annoying. The poor helpless people, you see, are the villagers they tortured and murdered to stay in power. Mohammed Atta, one of the evil scumbags who steered those planes into the killing grounds is the son of a Cairo surgeon. But you knew this, too. In the sixties and seventies, all the pinheads marching against the war were upper-middle-class college kids who grabbed any cause they could think of to get out of their final papers and spend more time drinking. It's the same today.
5) "Any profiling is racial profiling."
Who's killing us here, the Norwegians? Just days after the attack, the New York Times had an article saying dozens of extended members of the gazillionaire bin Laden family living in America were afraid of reprisals and left in a huff, never to return to studying at Harvard and using too much Drakkar. I'm crushed. Please come back. Let's all stop singing "We Are the World" for a minute and think practically. I don't want to be sitting on the floor in the back of a plane four seconds away from hitting Mt.Rushmore and turn, grinning, to the guy next to me to say, "Well, at least we didn't offend them."
SO HERE'S what I resolve for the New Year: Never to forget our murdered brothers and sisters. Never to let the relativists get away with their immoral thinking. After all, no matter what your daughter's political science professor says, we didn't start this. Have you seen that bumper sticker that says, "No More Hiroshimas"? I wish I had one that says, "No More Pearl Harbors."
THIS NEEDS TO STAY IN CIRCULATION FOR THOSE WHO HAVE OR WILL FALL FOR THE STUPIDITY GOING AROUND. PLEASE PASS IT ON!
"If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier."
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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This is all interesting stuff on BL and very comedic. He should be working at the Improv.
Quote:
Eco said: The reality is, he doesn't really give a shit about the plight of the Palestinian people.
Please keep telling that to all of the people who think Al Queda is Jihading for religious belief purposes.
(I think not personally, but anyway)
Quote:
Eco said: Bin Laden is primarily concerned with the Saudi Monarchy and how they govern their country.
So naturally he would want to terrorize the U.S. on the other side of the globe 
He has a bad sense of direction.
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Eco said: Look up his comments on the Saudi Monarchy if you don't believe me,
I'll believe anything you say he said. I just don't believe anything he says. 
Quote:
Eco said: His stated long-stated goal has been to "free Mecca" which he feels is under occupation, as long as the American military is aiding the "corrupt Saudi monarchy".
So the U.S., who is not enslaving anyone in Saudi Arabia that I am aware of, is aiding the country, contributing GREATLY to its GNP via buying it's oil, and giving it military protection from invaders, is the cause of his countries corruption, lack of islamic faith and poverity he says?
I'd like to know who taught him his math skills.
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Eco said; Again, this is all because he feels that the Saudi government has vastly mismanaged its people (and so we get into the whole starving bit) and he believes the monarchy have allowed America to grow richer while Islamic peoples suffer.
So the U.S. gives them billions of dollars buying their oil from them, and somehow he believes we are getting wealthier while they get poorer?
Do you have anymore of his funny one liners that may help me understand how he added that up?
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Eco said; His problem is that he holds ultra-nationalistic beliefs. He thinks that the only solution for Islamic countries to to adopt more and more extreme views of Islam.
What is the problem he needs an Islamic solution for? Does he think extreme islamic views will put an end to his corrupt monarchy? If so, how does his math work on that one. What sort of corruption is he accusing the SA Monarch of commiting anyway?
It doesn't make sense regardless because, you said earlier that he doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian Islamic concerns to recover their holy lands in Isreal to help them strengthen their faith as they say having it back will do.
Which is it Bin Laden?
Someone get him replying in this thread already. Whose got Bin Ladens phone number?
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Eco said; Look at his complaints: The Saudi government invited the US to help protect their country, and Bin Laden views this as a foreign occupation invited in by a corrupt monarch.
Again, his problem he says is his own corrupt monarchy. Why isn't he terrorizing them instead of us and western Europe?
Someone needs to give that man a geography lesson, map and compass. His sense of where his enemy is and aim is really off target.
I wish you had more on him to see where he faults the U.S. for a weak Islamic faith in Saudi Arabia. I'm not aware that our military has been acting as evangelists trying to convert Islamics, putting anyone into slavery, or seatling their money from them.
Anyone have any links supporting or suggesting the U.S. is actually doing these things in Saudi Arabia as Bin Laden accuses us of doing? Maybe Bin Laden knows something we don't.
Unless of course, he has paranoid delusional problems.
Quote:
Eco said: At the time, Bin Laden wanted to resist Saddam by himself with a make-shift army, an offer the Saudi government turned him down on.
BL is a piece of work. First he accepts our help training and weapons when putting up a resistance to Russia invading Afghanistan, and then is insisting on rejecting it,when we want help resist Saddam from invading Kuwait and maybe SA, next.
Damn BL is a fickle fuck.
Look at a mock break down.
Bin Laden says, "I am pissed at the saudi monarchy for being corrupt and my own people for being weak ass islamist as well as the U.S. for putting a military base in my country to help fight off invasions from Iraq. I wanted to fight off Saddam and the Iraquis myself with my own army. 
Bush says, "We invaded Iraq because we believed Saddam was making WMD that he was going to sell to Bin Ladens army, for them to use against the U.S, as well as harbor Bin ladens army (al queda).
All the while, Bin laden is mad at us for helping us fight off Saddam and his army.
Does not compute, Does not compute. What a circular cluster fuck of nonsensicle logic that all is. Think about it. It will hurt your brain.
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Eco said: I don't know why he thinks that ultra-nationalism is going to work, I have a hard time finding any example of it ever working.
Maybe he doesn't really believe it will either and every reason he gives for why he does what he does is a bunch of BULLSHIT. Ever consider that? 
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Eco said: But therein lies the problem. There are people (and governments) in this world that are committed to approaches towards "self-betterment" which are complete dead ends. As long as those people are allowed to influence policy, we're basically screwed.
He He he, I remember the first time politics and voting got my serious attention was when I heard Ross Perot say he was going to send the Lobbyists packing and make it illegal to lobby. Oh yeah, and he said he was going to shit can the IRS too. He got my attention and support. I had a glimmer of hope and voted for him and have been voting green ever since.
Sounds like from your last comment I quoted that you are a tad more aligned with where I sit then I originally thought. I sit seeing the BIG MONEY behind the lobbyists (influence as you put it) shaping the world as it best serves their pocket books and private interests.
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Eco said: I don't think regime change is the answer, but it's clear that changes do need to be made on their end, not ours.
You'd think it would be just as clear to BL and he would be bombing the Saudi Arabians instead of the U.S.'s, and preaching Islam in the streets of SA to get what change he wants to come from them.
Or were you talking about IRAQ?
What does Regime change in Iraq have to do with Bin laden being upset with his corrupt Saudi Arabian Monarchy and its countries lack of Islamic faith and poverity and his taking his frustrations out on the U.S and Western Europe?
Tooooo much doesn't make sense about what BL says related to lining up with what Bush says about him.
Did you catch the quote of the week Paradigm put up in the pub from Bush?
It fits perfectly here. Bush said in his recent interview with Katie Couric
"The hardest part of my job is connecting Iraq with the war on Terror"
No kidding Mr. President? 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Actually, bin Laden did use his money for shelters, hospitals, schools etc. in Afghanistan in both the 1980's and right up until the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. Everything there is to possibly know about OBL has been well documented by Peter Bergen. OBL, not surprisingly, believes he is a righteous man fighting a righteous cause. That being said, to Osama and his ilk his attacks aren't terrorism. He has elaborate justifications for his atrocities, especially in regard to 9/11, which he believes was a military operation against the "enemy's" economic and military epicenters. However, the reality of the attacks are different, as the hijackers struck at a time during the day that would ensure the maximum civilian casualities. At the end of the day, these are just the cognitive distortions of a religious fanatic who murders in the name of "Allah, the Most Merciful and Most Compassionate".
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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