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Offlineeclipse
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Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir
    #6041409 - 09/08/06 03:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Now I have read a few different opinions about his issue but it seems to me that using coir as a bulk spawn is still a relatively new thing (I know some of you like RR have been advocating it for years though)in the cult community.I am planning on spawning some PF style(Hippie3's recipe--that shit is awesome ) spawn bags to coir.SO I have a few questions---

1.From what I understand if using straight coir you do not have to pasteurize is this true?

2.It seems there are a lot of things that people talk about adding to their coir,what are the main things that coir is lacking i.e. nitrogen,phosphate,potash etc.

3.what re the best things to use to introduce those things into the coir?

3.5.I got some of this http://www.espoma.com/content.aspx?type=p&id=5&intCategoryID=1
cause I am pretty sure people always talk about nitrogen as being one of the big things needed in coir.Is it usable cause I couldn't get any blood meal or worm castings locally.I know RR advocates coffee but I am not really sure how to go about doing that cause I wasn't sure if you needed to brew it (I do not have a coffee maker).

4.does it need to be PH balanced by itself?What about after adding additives?

4.5.If so is this the correct product(s)
http://www.yardlover.com/products.php?pid=830

http://www.espoma.com/content.aspx?type=p&id=9&intCategoryID=2

and even if the coir does not need them can or should they be used for substrate PH balancing/stability?

5.I am sure the if I get any replies that the all knowing ones (RR RK MM HC BH etc.) will include ratios anyway but just in case what re the ratios I should be using?

6.I see the 1:4 ratio being used as the recommended max spawn ratio when talking bout straw/poo,is it the same with coir?

7.Since I am using coir as a spawn is it a good idea to use a 60/40 as a casing or should I go with something else like a 50/50 + or some pre bagged jiffy mix or that miracle gro moisture control stuff.

Thank you so much for any help you can provide in advance,I am extremely grateful for all the answers you guys have provided me so far and know that I would never have gotten this far without your help.

Eclipse


--------------------
All that is now
All that is gone
All thats to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

PF


Edited by eclipse (09/08/06 03:55 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: eclipse]
    #6041437 - 09/08/06 03:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

There are no rules for mixing substrates. Coir can be used as is, or you can dump in a few days worth of coffee grinds from your leftover morning pots of coffee. Worm castings, horse manure, etc., can all be added by the handfull, or each can even be used for 100% of the substrate.

Use between 5% and 10% gypsum by volume. Use 1/2 teaspoon of hydrated lime per cup of manure based substrates.

NPK is for plants and is irrelevant for mushrooms.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlineeclipse
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6041469 - 09/08/06 03:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

RR thank for reply but im stil a little confused here?

If I add anything to the coir does it need to be pasteurized?

is that urea I linked to suitable to use as a nitrogen supplement?

so hydrated lime should only be used in manure based substartes?so do not bother is what your saying if im using coir?

If I do not have a coffee maker what is best way to prepare grounds for use as an additive?


--------------------
All that is now
All that is gone
All thats to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

PF


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: eclipse]
    #6041539 - 09/08/06 04:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you don't already drink coffee, then it's not worth using. Don't pay retail coffee prices for substrate. If however, one is a coffee addict like me, it makes sense to use the leftover grinds rather than throwing them away.

The figure I gave for hydrated lime is to use with just about everything except peat, in which you would double that amount. 1/2 teaspoon per cup will swing the ph 1 point or so.

You should pasteurize the coir. Some, including me have used it unpasteurized with success, but additives such as compost and/or manure definitely need to be pasteurized, so just do it.

Don't use urea. If you feel you need a nitrogen boost, use chicken manure, but at no more than 5% of the total bulk substrate. Make sure the chicken manure has cured in the sun for at least a week or two and has zero smell. Otherwise, spread it out on cardboard in the sun until it's dry and odor free.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6041648 - 09/08/06 05:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Starbucks has a coffee ground recycling program.  If you have one near by (and you probably do... they're freekin' everywhere) just ask.  They'll give you a big ol' bag of their used grounds... they actually save them for that purpose and even package them up to give away.  Pretty nice of 'em eh? :thumbup:  As long as they're dried out you can keep them in the fridge/freezer for a pretty long time too.  (you can quickly dry them out if they aren't already by putting them in a bowl and giving them a quick zap in the microwave.)  At any rate, nitrogen isn't NEEDED in coir, it will give you some nice fruits if you use it straight.  But I have had best results when adding coffee grounds.  Coffee is a great source of nitrogen and adds some other nutritional diversity to the picture... cubes seem to really like it.  Since they're so easy to come by being that I'm a coffee drinker... I've not tried mixing anything else to really compare honestly.

As for a casing, case with whatever you wish.  A colonized substrate is a colonized substrate for most intents and purposes, don't matter if its coir or poo or anything really... doesn't change the rules for how you'd case it.  I do like the moisture control mix but I'm a little careful about advocating it because its kinda new territory too, and some would frown upon its use based on the ingredients.  I have had stellar results from it and swear by it personally, and some others have followed that lead and found it also worked for them, but your mileage may vary and I'd still consider it somewhat "experimental" and by no means traditional, so if you're looking for a sure thing you might want to stick to one of the more tried and true recipes... depends on your comfort level there :thumbup:

Coir, coffee grounds, and micracle gro moisture control as a casing mix is my game plan each and every time now... totally sold on the whole process and that combination.  I know some others have recently done the same both on the boards here and I've guided a few through PM's with that exact method and nothing but rave reviews.... so feel free to get in touch if you got any other questions or concerns with it should you go that way. :smile:

And yup, the ratios are the same.  1:4 works out dandy.  1:1 or 1:2 works awesome if you're in a hurry, it'll colonize in those cases in like 2-3 days... pretty amazing really.  When I spawn to coir I don't layer spawn/substrate/spawn/substrate like most do... rather I take my broken up WBS (or crumbled pieces of pf cakes), and just get right in there with a clean spoon and mix it all up uniformly.  Layering it the traditional way is certainly fine too but I find it colonizes quickly and evenly by mixing it evenly.

Coir itself seems to be pretty selective towards mycelium and not so much for molds... but it will ferment/contam with bacteria... smells kinda like bananas when it goes wrong. :smile:  Its a good idea to use lime for that reason, it helps protect against that... It's also critical not to make it too wet, and don't overheat it (you don't really need to incubate bulk substrates at any higher than room temp).  Observe those couple of tips and you'll do just fine with it.


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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: creamcorn]
    #6042088 - 09/08/06 08:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

semi pasturization, got me one (+) flushes.... coir as a substrate is awesome, but depletes quick


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine


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Offlineeclipse
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: Oatman2000]
    #6044990 - 09/09/06 11:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

RR and CC thank you so much for the advice as always.

oatman your recent coir grow was my inspiration so thanks for your hard work.

I will be posting pics in the GL section as soon as I have my spawn all mixed up.


--------------------
All that is now
All that is gone
All thats to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

PF


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Offlinejoeinc
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Re: Need for additives when using coir as spawn???And some more questions regarding coir [Re: eclipse]
    #6047692 - 09/10/06 08:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just finished my first try with coir. Best results i've ever had and I didn't even case .... Simple as hell... used 12 pf cakes and made 4-3-cake foil trays with straight coir... nothing added..... first tray harvested thurs yielded 273g wet. I'm happy..have another 4 trays going now that I'll case after they colonize just to see if theres really any difference in yeild..


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