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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,643
Bush: secret CIA prisons exist
    #6034966 - 09/06/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday for the first time acknowledged the use of secret CIA prisons outside U.S. borders to hold top suspects captured in the war on terrorism.

In a speech at the White House, Bush said captured terror suspects have been the best intelligence source in efforts to stop new attacks and listed attacks blocked because of this intelligence.

The CIA program has "saved innocent lives," the president said.

Bush said torture was not part of the program and he had not authorized any form of torture, saying American law forbids it.

Bush said locations of the prisons will remain secret.

"They are in our custody so they cannot murder our people," Bush said of the detainees.

The program "helped take potential mass murderers off the streets," Bush said.

Bush said that alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is among 14 high-level detainees to be transferred from CIA to Pentagon custody at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where, with congressional approval of new military tribunals, they would face trial.

Besides Mohammed, those who would face tribunals include Ramzi Binalshibh and Abu Zubaydah and other suspects held in connection with the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen and the bombing attacks on U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Bush announced that the transferred detainees will get rights under the Geneva Convention once transferred to Pentagon custody.

Bush said Wednesday he would ask Congress for explicit rules so U.S. personnel are protected from abuse charges as they fight the war on terror.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Virginia, began circulating draft legislation on the tribunals two weeks ago. Key players met with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, on Tuesday night to discuss the matter.

While specifics are sketchy on what form the bill will take, a Warner spokesman said lawmakers have been working "cooperatively" with the administration on the version, "even though they have somewhat different views."
New Pentagon rules

The president's proposal comes on the same day the Pentagon issued a new directive on detainee treatment. (Full story)

"All detainees shall be treated humanely and in accordance with U.S. law, the law of war, and applicable U.S. policy," the directive says.

"All persons subject to his directive shall observe ... at a minimum the standards articulated in Common Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions of 1949," it says.

In a 5-3 decision in June, the Supreme Court ruled that existing law barred military commissions. The decision effectively means officials will have to come up with new procedures to prosecute at least 10 "enemy combatants" awaiting trial or release them from military custody.

In the concurring opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer said, "Congress has not issued the executive a blank check."

"Indeed, Congress has denied the president the legislative authority to create military commissions of the kind at issue here," he wrote. However, he noted, "Nothing prevents the president from returning to Congress to seek the authority he believes necessary."

The case was brought on behalf of Yemeni suspect Salim Ahmed Hamdan, who was captured in Afghanistan in 2001 and who officials say has admitted being Osama bin Laden's bodyguard and driver.

The United States has claimed that the Guantanamo detainees are not on U.S. soil and therefore are not covered by the U.S. Constitution.

The government has argued that enemy combatant or "unlawful combatant" status means detainees can be denied legal protections usually afforded prisoners of war, as outlined in the Geneva Conventions.

On Tuesday, Bush once again defended the war in Iraq as central to the war on terrorism, saying that a U.S. withdrawal would only propel bin Laden and other terrorists into more powerful positions. (Watch Bush argue why Iraq is central to the war on terror -- 1:51)

Bush has aggressively asserted the power of the government to capture, detain and prosecute suspected terrorists in the wake of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

CNN's Ed Henry and Ted Barrett contributed to this report.


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So, a big tankyou to all sonspiracy nuts because they again were right on the money :thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Asante]
    #6034991 - 09/06/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That there have been a small handful of terrorists, or simply enemies if you prefer, being held by the CIA was no secret. The notion of actual secret prisons is not exactly supported here. Rather telling is that CNN does not put this in quotes:
Quote:


Bush said locations of the prisons will remain secret.




I suspect Bush said no such thing and CNN is putting it's own definition on what a prison is. You could call any house a prison if you wanted to be that cavalier about usage.


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6034998 - 09/06/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If these prison weren't secret, then why did so many people get so up in arms when the media reported on them a few months back?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Redstorm]
    #6035032 - 09/06/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What prisons? Once again, it has been no secret that the likes of Zarqawi were being held at undisclosed locations. Why was there such a kerfuffle over the media reportage? Because they couldn't back up their reports with any evidence and referring to them as "secret prisons" (cue sinister music) was hysteria mongering.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6035090 - 09/06/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you honestly think that CIA and Military bases overseas do NOT have Secure Dention Facilities (PRISONS) in them, and that many of these are probably secret from anyone outside the agency, I pity your naivity.

Thats just a ludicrous position to take...


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6035212 - 09/06/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Of course they do and every time they say one of these assholes is being held at an undisclosed location for interrogation the only secret is where. Who fucking cares? But when the media comes out with an entire hysterical brouhaha that the CIA has "secret prisons" (cue sinister music) and does nothing to describe them what do you think of? Hidden Spandaus or nefarious complexes where untold horrors are visited upon poor innocent citizens who may KNOW TOO MUCH. Feh. Another manufactured tempest in a teacup.

I also will be very surprised if we see Bush used the term "secret prison" but I can't find the transcript yet.


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6035278 - 09/06/06 02:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If they let the muslim extremists know where the prisons were then the prison grounds would be full of the body parts of the "martyrs". I think its more hygenic to keep the location of the prisons secret to protect people from any possible blood born diseases.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: Asante]
    #6036642 - 09/06/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 04:58 PM)

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6036721 - 09/06/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:congrats:

yep, we're all in the same boat.

always remember not to forget that everything is under control.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Loc: North America
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6037139 - 09/06/06 11:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:handth:


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Asante]
    #6037629 - 09/07/06 04:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah and to all the idiots that said it wasn't true and called people paranoid

Suck on this  :eatadick:


Sorry but it really pissed me off when there was quite a few people denying it on here before.  Its sad that despite the evidence people won't accept it until their president tells them so.

And to everyone thats jumped on the 'terror' bandwagon FUCK U.  U'd be a terrorist too if someone invaded your country, robbed you and told you how to run the show.

Imagine the Iraqi's invaded America and started pumping their black gold out.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6038845 - 09/07/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Of course they do and every time they say one of these assholes is being held at an undisclosed location for interrogation the only secret is where.




The problem I have is that I suspect these prisoners are being taken to "secret prisons" in neighboring countries and tortured. Why wouldn't they bring high level prisoners back to mainland USA? It is certianly less likely an escape will succeed and seems nearly impossible for an enemy to aid a prisoner in the middle of the United States. But, helping a prisoner escape from Turkey? That seems much easier.

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OfflineTurn
Hey Its Free!

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 367
Loc: The fabled catbird seat
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6040230 - 09/07/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
I think a more fundamental point(s) needs to be made about these "secret prisons", which we all know are vital for successfully prosecuting our noble and virtuous "War on Terror" to save the world from the "evil-doers".




:congrats: 

Kick ass post

Edited by Turn (09/07/06 11:48 PM)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Ego Death]
    #6040517 - 09/08/06 04:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

> Sorry but it really pissed me off when there was quite a few people denying it on here before.

Really? I am pretty sure that I never debated against it, and I usually debate against most of the conspiracy theories. If you have them handy, I would love to know what posts you are speaking of.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Seuss]
    #6047660 - 09/10/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Nevermind that undercover police are posing as radicals and then provoking uniformed police officers in order to justify police brutality against peaceful protestors.



Hey I'd like to see a link for this one, I haven't heard about it before.

The bad thing about the war on terror is that if 9/11 was completely staged, that's one thing, but now because of 9/11 there are indeed "real" terrorists as a result of our actions in Iraq, etc, so regardless of what happened, there may eventually be a "real" threat to justify the governments actions, except.... well do you get what I mean?

it makes it hard to get a clear head because then you have fear of being oppressed by your governors, as well as the enemies of your governors.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: leery11]
    #6063292 - 09/14/06 11:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 04:59 PM)

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6063306 - 09/15/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I am afraid it already is too late. It will take economic collapse to escape the coming 1984 world.


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Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: leery11]
    #6063308 - 09/15/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 04:59 PM)

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Bush: secret CIA prisons exist [Re: Asante]
    #6066948 - 09/16/06 05:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If they get away with torturing "evil-doers of terror" at these secret prisons Bush and his ilk will soon start using them for "evil-doers caught with drugs".

"These are bad guys - they use drugs..."

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
--- [Re: Alex213]
    #6068808 - 09/16/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 05:00 PM)

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