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InvisibleJaComet
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Charcoal’s Secret : * 5
    #6024742 - 09/03/06 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Charcoal’s Secret :

Somewhere in Stamets’ work, and possibly on the boards, I noted that charcoal may be helpful where spores are difficult to start. Adding charcoal to culture media seems to be beneficial. I don’t know what it does but I do know a bit about charcoals.

Charcoal has a secret. Not a secret really, just largely unrecognized outside of Asia. Some charcoal gives off far-infrared radiation. Not just while it is burning, it radiates all the time. Far-infrared = thermal radiation. Some charcoals even emit negative ions. With this in mind, let’s look at how we may employ it’s unique properties.

First let’s look at regular and "activated" charcoal.

Regular charcoal is produced where hardwoods, sawdust, bone char, coconut shells, peat, coal or petroleum coke are fired in an enclosed burning environment. Restricting the amount of air provided to the burn runs off the water and volatile organic constituents in the wood, leaving blackened chunks of carbon mixed with traces of minerals from the original material.

Activated charcoal is made by taking regular charcoal and re-firing it with introduction of air blast, steam, oxygen or other gases to corrode the interior cell structure, creating a more porous structure. Activated charcoal attracts and retains organic matter run through it, as well as mechanically trapping particulate matter. These properties make it useful in a variety of applications, notably in water filtering.

Now let’s look at infrared radiation and wavelengths.

When regular charcoal is burnt infrared radiation is released. This penetrating thermal radiation is what makes charcoal grilled foods different from flame grilled or broiled. The food is cooked on the inside by the radiation, reducing cooking time and sealing in juices as the out side is sealed by charring.

As stated earlier some charcoals give off infrared radiation all the time. Activated charcoal may give off infrared. I don’t know. I expect this property may be dependent on the starting materials, but I’ve not found any information in these regards.

Now here is where things get interesting.

+++
Journal of Chemical Engineering of Japan, vol 25 no 3 pp 275-281(1992) [Japanese]

EFFECT OF FAR-INFRARED IRRADIATION ON PASTEURIZATION OF BACTERIA SUSPENDED IN LIQUID MEDIUM BELOW LETHAL TEMPERATURE

ATSUSHI HASHIMOTO, JUN SAWAI, HIDEO IGARASHI AND MASARU SHIMIZU

Department of Chemical Engineering, Division of Chemical & Biological Science and Techr Tokyo University of Agriculture & Technology, Tokyo 184

The purpose of this study is to examine the influence of far-infrared irradiation on pasteurization of bacteria suspended in liquid medium below the lethal temperature. Under this condition, Escherichia coli and Staphylococcus aureus are injured and killed by far-infrared irradiation. With increase in irradiation power and with decrease in depth of the suspension, the ratio of the number of injured cells to the number of viable cells becomes higher, and the number of viable cells becomes smaller. Moreover, the pasteurization effect can be enhanced by raising the bulk temperature of the suspension. By estimating the temperature distribution within the suspension, it is suggested that the test bacteria are injured and killed in the very thin domain near the surface of the suspension.

+++

Journal of Chemical Engineering of Japan, vol 25 no 6 pp 666-671(1992) [Japanese]

FAR-INFRARED IRRADIATION EFFECT ON PASTEURIZATION OF BACTERIA ON OR WITHIN WET-SOLID MEDIUM

ATSUSHI HASHIMOTO, HIDEO IGARASHF AND MASARU SHIMIZU

Department of Chemical Engineering, Division of Chemical & Biological Science and Technology, Tokyo University of Agriculture & Technology, Tokyo 184

The present purpose is to study the influence of far-infrared irradiation on pasteurization of Escherichia coli and Staphylococcus aureus on or within a model for wet-solid food. Agar medium was used as the food model. By determining the thermal resistances of the test bacteria, the pasteurization effect of far-infrared irradiation (radiative heating) was compared with that of hot-air heating (a conventional method) from the viewpoint of thermal death kinetics. It was found experimentally that far-infrared irradiation is more effective than hot-air heating for the test bacteria on the agar-plate. Moreover, it is suggested that the surface temperature of the pasteurization sample irradiated by far-infrared radiation is higher than that measured by the thermocouples.

+++

So, what does all this have to do with anything?

Heated and evaporated water readily absorbs infrared radiant energy at 3, 4.5 and 6 µm.
I suggest this radiation can affect water in bacterial cells, killing them.

Enter Bamboo Charcoal!

Bamboo Charcoal has the possibly unique properties of emitting infrared rays in the range between 4 and 16µm, even at room temperature, along with negative ions and canceling electromagnetic ( EM ) radiation. Negative ions also disable or kill bacteria.

A Russian research team headed by A L. Tchijevski found an exponential bacteria decay rate of 78 percent per minute in negatively charged air environments. The team concluded negative ions killed the bacteria. Other studies indicate negative ions also kill or disable viruses and fungus spores.


But why are ions therapeutic? Partly because they kill germs. Back in the 1930s. a Russian team headed by A L. Tchijevski found that large ion doses of either polarity retarded bacteria colony formation on plates. Ionization also sterilized enclosed air. Latter experiments duplicating Tchijevski's work noted an exponential bacteria decay rate of 23 percent per minute for untreated air 34 percent per minute for air with pos-ions. and 78 percent per minute for negatively charged air. They concluded that the pos-ion decay rate was due to simple bonding or the ions with the bacteria, whereas the neg-ions actually killed them.

Some studies suggest that negative ions also have a biological effect on bacteria and viruses, killing them on contact in many cases.

Bamboo Charcoal is much more porous than other types, typically reaching surface areas of 300 to 700 square meters per gram. Wood charcoals area is around 30 square meters per gram. Coconut shell is somewhat higher. Bamboo Charcoal therefore is superior in many respects for filtration and absorption.

Bamboo Charcoal is high density and is very porous. It soaks up and releases moisture helping to maintain equilibrium. It is also a rich source of trace minerals, which it releases slowly to water.

Biological organisms absorb infrared in the 8-14 um range utilizing the energy for a variety of metabolic processes.

Enough for now. Ponder how you might add this knowledge to your culture techniques, keeping in mind that liquid cultures may benefit where spores may not.

More to come as my trials continue.

Remember you heard it here first. JaComet


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet] * 1
    #6024792 - 09/03/06 02:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting stuff. I add activated charcoal to my agar when doing specialty experiments such as germinating very old spores or crossing strains. I've noticed healthier mycelium when grown on activated charcoal, but not necessarily faster or more growth.

I've also noticed a decrease in bacterial contamination when charcoal is used, and bacterial colonies that do get started, seem to stall out after a couple of days, then are overran by the mycelium.

I doubt it's the small amount of infrared that is suppressing the bacteria, but who knows?


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6024829 - 09/03/06 02:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hey RR,

Thanks for your input.

I've been wondering if the effect on lower fungi/mold spores is the same as higher fungi. I kind of doubt it from what I've researched.

Bamboo Charcoal has definable heating properties. A whole industry has grown up around it. Foot pads to keep tootsies toasty. Bed covers for the same. Even impregnated fiber clothing. One source even goes so far as to claim charcoal long underwear is helpful in Lyme disease and other skin conditions.

I'm a bit of a Woo-Woo, but this stuff has been interesting to work with.

Peace.


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OfflineFreeSporePrints
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #6268121 - 11/10/06 09:37 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hi there,
i'd like to know the recipe for activated charcoal agar and if this tip is okay for all the kinds of agar.

Thank you.

Fabio :thumbup:


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Offlinevinzy_a
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #6268150 - 11/10/06 09:56 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

that's awesome!
il keep my eye on this thread;
we have some coir with charcoal here in our hardware stores!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: vinzy_a] * 1
    #6268170 - 11/10/06 10:05 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I add about a tablespoon (7 to 10 grams) to one liter of Agar. Be sure to powder the charcoal first. I use a bowl and pestle.
RR


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OfflineFreeSporePrints
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6268196 - 11/10/06 10:14 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

RR your is simple charcoal or activated charcoal.

i've found a recipe that say to add 1 gr of activated charcoal to one liter of agar.

Thank you.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: FreeSporePrints] * 1
    #6268222 - 11/10/06 10:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It's activated charcoal. I got it at a pet store for use in aquarium filters. I never saw a recipe before using it. I just tried with a tablespoon of chacoal and it worked out ok. It makes the agar darker so the mycelium is easier to see too.
RR


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6268361 - 11/10/06 11:20 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

If I'm not mistakin I believe that Monster Mich adds activated charcoal to his LC recipe and if Monster Mich uses it than its good stuff,He has been one of if not the most helpful person here to me and he knows what hes doing


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Blutjager]
    #6271185 - 11/11/06 07:39 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Way to go RR. Right friendly looking plate ya got there!

I've been adding about one tablespoon Bamboo Charcoal powder per two quarts of WBS-Poo sub for LC in jars. Like what I've seen so far in overall vigor and contam resistance when mycelial mat is injured.

I've used horticultural charcoal in casing mixes at up to 10% by volume. My biased, or at least subjective observation is FCs just smell / sense fresher over course of fruiting period.

Currently looking deeper into UV and Ion output of different materials. Looks like coconut husk is a candidate. Maybe Oak as well though not as porous or renewable as BC or CNut.

It's all Good.


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OfflineFreeSporePrints
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #6271192 - 11/11/06 07:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I've found activated charcoal at the pet store but my final media wasn't dark as the RR's photo (unlucky i've made this last media too much fast so had problems with drops and with the activated charcoal unlike-powder).

I believe that a table spoon is too much, but i want try different amounts :smile:

Fabio :sun:

ps. i like vented plates! :smile:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #6271308 - 11/11/06 09:34 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

charcoal gives off far-infrared radiation. Not just while it is burning, it radiates all the time.




can you cite/link to some documentation on the emission of IR by charcoal ?


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Hippie3]
    #6278030 - 11/13/06 08:40 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hippie 3,

Very little published in this area, ripe for experimentation. The majority of web references to IR emission and Charcoal comes from people merchandising alternative health items.

Not much info available on the web. At least in English. Most of the "orthodox" research is from Japan with China following. Bits and pieces can be found such as

+++
Bamboo Charcoal Inhibits Growth of HeLa Cells In Vitro

http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsdmd/2004/23-4ee-30.html

Fumio TERAOKA, Yoshinosuke HAMADA and Junzo TAKAHASHI
Division of Oromaxillofacial Regeneration, Course for Integrated Oral Sciences and Stomatology, Osaka University Graduate School of Dentistry, 1-8 Yamadaoka, Suita, Osaka, 565-0871, Japan
Corresponding author, E-mail : terachan@dent.osaka-u.ac.jp

Dent Mater J 23(4): 633-637
The purpose of this work was to investigate the far infrared spectral characteristics of bamboo charcoal powder and its effect on cancer cells for use in the dental field. To analyze the effects of the powder, HeLa and WI-38 cells were used and then assessed by cell adhesion assay and WST-1 assay. The powder emitted far infrared rays at wavelengths between 4 to 16µm. The multiplication rate of WI-38 cells showed no significant differences between the conventional culture (control group) and culture on the powder (FIR group). However, at six days after incubation, HeLa cells of FIR group had a significantly lower multiplication rate compared with the control group. Based on the far infrared rays emitted in this study, bamboo charcoal powder proved to be a promising dental filler material for cancer prevention.

Key words : Bamboo charcoal powder, Far infrared rays (FIR), HeLa cells
+++

Now note :L " However, at six days after incubation, HeLa cells of FIR group had a significantly lower multiplication rate * * * "

This looks to jibe up with RR's bacteria result.

The IR property seems to be imparted by the kiln process, with traditional flame firing surpassing electric kiln in IR out put.

Its worth investigating.IMO

OOPse :

Forgot to ask vinzy_a


Coir with charcoal ?!! What is this product used for?

Thanks


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Edited by JaComet (11/13/06 08:47 AM)


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Offlineeltrkbrd
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret - Difference between Activated Charcoal and Activated Carbon? [Re: JaComet]
    #6664954 - 03/13/07 04:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Is there any difference between activated carbon and activated charcoal?

17 oz of Activated Carbon Pellets by Aquatic Gardens was purchased from Petco for $6 instead of spending $9 at Wholefoods for 3oz of Nature's Way Activated Charcoal (280 mg - 100 Capsules).

Here's the type of Activated Carbon purchased: http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_Product_R_156_PC_productlist_Nav_221_N_24+143_sku_287571_familyID_100372.aspx#details

vs. Nature's way Activated Charcoal here: http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Way-Activated-Charcoal

The Plan is to use this in Monstermitch's LC Tek for a Core Biopsy Clone as seen here: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668699/an/0/page/0

Any feedback?

-Thanks


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret - Difference between Activated Charcoal and Activated Carbon? [Re: eltrkbrd]
    #6664971 - 03/13/07 04:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Could it be way coffee works?


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Offlineeltrkbrd
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret - Difference between Activated Charcoal and Activated Carbon? [Re: Brainiac]
    #6665226 - 03/13/07 05:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Not sure, just need to know if there is a difference between "Activated Carbon" and "Activated Charcoal" for use in LC's as described above. It appears to be the same thing other than not being Food Grade and perhaps trace minerals and the way it is derived (from wood, bone, etc).

-Thanks


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret - Difference between Activated Charcoal and Activated Carbon? [Re: eltrkbrd]
    #6671697 - 03/15/07 08:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Eltrkbrd,

There is a difference. Activated Carbon is most often prepared from coal and/or oil refinery residues of some kind. It is denser in structure and tends to have a shiny appearance.

Unsuitable IMO. You’ll find it hard to powder.

Food grade charcoal should always be of vegetable origin. Willow tree charcoal is a standard for emergency poison treatment with coconut quickly gaining favor.

Given the small amounts of charcoal needed I would stick with the higher priced material or look for a bag of Agricultural Charcoal at a garden supply.

Best of success with your experiment.


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Invisiblejoshua m
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7955570 - 01/30/08 03:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Interesting stuff. I add activated charcoal to my agar when doing specialty experiments such as germinating very old spores or crossing strains. I've noticed healthier mycelium when grown on activated charcoal, but not necessarily faster or more growth.

I've also noticed a decrease in bacterial contamination when charcoal is used, and bacterial colonies that do get started, seem to stall out after a couple of days, then are overran by the mycelium.

I doubt it's the small amount of infrared that is suppressing the bacteria, but who knows?




So this question still exists if RR is right that in the laboratory carbon makes healthier mycelium. Then why can.t it produce better mycelium in grain jars. Notice he did not say more growth but HEALTHIER which in my book would equal better fruits.

So if it were ground to dust why couldn't it be ground up in a hand grain grinder and put in the rye, wbs etc jars.

PS i have done this and will tell the result but i wanna hear some opinions


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: joshua m]
    #7955851 - 01/30/08 04:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

charcoal emits IR radiation? lol???

i am not doubting the benefits of charcoal to culture growth, but that is some serious bs.

charcoal just happens to emit electromagnetic radiation while it just sits around? Where does it get this energy from? Show me some charcoal glowing on an IR (nightvision) camera and I will be astounded.


--------------------
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InvisibleSheikCorp
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #7956034 - 01/30/08 05:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

maybe burning charcoal does? heh


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: SheikCorp]
    #7956432 - 01/30/08 06:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

certainly when burning :smile: that's known as heat and light...

but certainly not when sitting in a bag at the hardware store


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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #7968483 - 02/02/08 02:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Charcoal, as you may have noticed, is black. This means it absorbs visible radiation. This means it is gaining energy from its surroundings. This energy must be re-emitted somehow. I doubt it's being re-emitted as x-rays or in the ultraviolet part of the EM spectrum...

Charcoal is not just any old black powder but, owing to its structure, is likely to display some special properties. The two main things relating to the structure of charcoal in this respect are:

*its very large surface area; and

*its delocalised electrons (resulting from the graphite-like arrangement of the carbon atoms within the separate particles.)

Don't be so hasty to scoff at things beyond the realms of your day-to-day understanding!


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7977235 - 02/04/08 12:47 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Trust me, this is way beneath my every day understanding as I work in the field of electromagnetic radiation.

It is true that materials that appear black do so because they absorb all incoming visible light. And yes, it is true that in most cases this is released as IR radiation in the form of heat. Think of asphalt or a black t-shirt in the hot summer sun. However, the original post is misleading in that it preaches constant IR radiation from steady state charcoal. Not possible.

Through combination of the reasoning of the original post and yours, all black materials should be anti-bacterial in nature solely because of their lack of color.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
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OfflineShivaMeme
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #7977412 - 02/04/08 01:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Carbon-14 is well known for its radioactive decay. It has a half-life of 5730 years apparently and is abundant everywhere on earth. (ubiquitous) I can imagine there is some carbon-14 in charcoal and perhaps other elements that are undergoing decay at some very small rate.

And as for rest mass, radioactive decay does actually reduce it. It's a slow transition from matter to energy.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: ShivaMeme]
    #7977756 - 02/04/08 03:52 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, there is carbon14 in charcoal, as well as in every other substance that has carbon. This is the fundamental principle of carbon dating. If it were radioactive decay of carbon-14 that was responsible for any type of antibiotic activity of charcoal, then most materials on earth would have the same antibiotic properties.

Again, I'm not doubting charcoal's effectiveness as an additive to cultures. Maybe it even has some type of antibiotic properties. This in itself seems extremely suspect though, since it is used widely in all types of filters, including those for fish tanks where a large community of bacteria is required simply to process ammonia waste and allow the fish to survive. I'm just saying that any anti-bacterial properties it MAY have are not due to any sort of steady state electromagnetic radiation.

Besides, the frequencies that vibrate water molecules are way up in the microwave region of the EM spectrum, not the IR. This is how your "microwave oven" works.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
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OfflineShivaMeme
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #7978146 - 02/04/08 05:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
charcoal emits IR radiation? lol???

i am not doubting the benefits of charcoal to culture growth, but that is some serious bs.

charcoal just happens to emit electromagnetic radiation while it just sits around? Where does it get this energy from? Show me some charcoal glowing on an IR (nightvision) camera and I will be astounded.




You changed your argument parameters...

No, I don't believe radioactive decay produces enough heat to come close to pasteurization...

So the reason it helps is almost certainly due to alterations of PH and other chemical contributions. Activated carbon binds to certain chemicals that may be toxic to mycelium such as chlorine or metabolites of other micro-organisms.


--------------------
The curse of Genius is the constant scrutiny of lesser minds...
The curse of Stupidity is the constant delusion of Genius...
The curse of Insanity is the constant perception of scrutiny...

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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: ShivaMeme]
    #7978506 - 02/04/08 06:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure where you see my argument changing, the only thing I argued against was the emission of IR radiation from charcoal.

I agree with you that it helps in some unknown chemical way, possibly trace minerals or other contributions that you suggested.

I just wanted to refute this bogus claim:

Quote:

JaComet said:
Some charcoal gives off far-infrared radiation. Not just while it is burning, it radiates all the time. Far-infrared = thermal radiation.

Heated and evaporated water readily absorbs infrared radiant energy at 3, 4.5 and 6 µm.

I suggest this radiation can affect water in bacterial cells, killing them.

Bamboo Charcoal has the possibly unique properties of emitting infrared rays in the range between 4 and 16µm, even at room temperature.

Remember you heard it here first. JaComet




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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #7990922 - 02/07/08 11:42 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:

I just wanted to refute this bogus claim:
Quote:


    Quote:
    JaComet said:
    Some charcoal gives off far-infrared radiation. Not just while it is burning, it radiates all the time. Far-infrared = thermal radiation.

    Heated and evaporated water readily absorbs infrared radiant energy at 3, 4.5 and 6 µm.

    I suggest this radiation can affect water in bacterial cells, killing them.

    Bamboo Charcoal has the possibly unique properties of emitting infrared rays in the range between 4 and 16µm, even at room temperature.

    Remember you heard it here first. JaComet








Which bogus (spurious?) claim were you wanting to refute (deny?)?

  • >Bamboo Charcoal has the possibly unique properties of emitting infrared rays in the range between 4 and 16µm, even at room temperature.

    or

  • >this radiation can affect water in bacterial cells, killing them.

I thought the claim about IR emission from bamboo charcoal was in an article in a respected journal, and the research was performed in a Japanese government institute. Or am I getting my wires crossed again?

Quote:

Trust me, this is way beneath my every day understanding as I work in the field of electromagnetic radiation.




I'm sorry to hear that. What are you, a photographer? A cook? A cellphone engineer? A tanning salon operator? A radiographer? An astronomer? It's a very big field... :sun:

Quote:

Through combination of the reasoning of the original post and yours, all black materials should be anti-bacterial in nature solely because of their lack of color.



And what about:

Quote:

*its very large surface area; and

*its delocalised electrons (resulting from the graphite-like arrangement of the carbon atoms within the separate particles.)?




Sorry I haven't stated my reasoning more clearly for you. As far as electronic properties of charcoal go, it does have reactive sites as a result of lattice defects. These sites may contribute to the supposed antibacterial effect through free-radical type reactions, which are known to cause cell death. I'd also urge the consideration of how a covalent molecular substance with delocalised electrons might emit electromagnetic radiation in a seemingly anomalous fashion. Even in the dark. You fell for the "it's black" trap!

I think the adsorptive capabilities of activated charcoal certainly play a role in its culture supporting properties. Perhaps there are some other adsorbants that could tested to look for a similar action in supporting culture growth. These materials could also have their IR output (if any) measured. Somebody please give me a laboratory (and a budget!)...


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Edited by Mr E Guest (02/07/08 05:01 PM)


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7991561 - 02/07/08 02:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I work in the field of biochemistry in a lab that specializes in fluorescence, bioluminescence, and IR and UV spectroscopy.

I am trying to disprove the claims that charcoal emits IR radiation, AND that any antibacterial activity of charcoal is due to such radiation.

Going back to the original post, the only journal articles cited are those that show evidence for far-infrared radiation as an effective form of pasteurization. The original author is the one that claims charcoal somehow magically emits IR radiation, and further claims this to be possibly responsible for antibacterial properties. This is the claim I do not believe.

If charcoal does indeed have antibiotic properties due to IR radiation or free-radicals, then we would expect it to inhibit fungal growth as well. There should be no reason either of these properties would effect bacteria and not fungi. We know that heat (far-IR) is an effective form of killing BOTH bacterial and fungal spores and cells (pasteurization, sterilization) and free-radicals (super-oxide anions in hydrogen peroxide) are damaging to both as well.

If RR's observation that charcoal agar plates inhibit bacterial but not fungal growth are indeed true, there is some unknown mechanism taking place accounting for such activity.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #7992014 - 02/07/08 04:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yrat - Thanks for clarifying! Any thoughts as a spectroscopist on the
[activated charcoal's] "delocalised electrons (resulting from the graphite-like arrangement of the carbon atoms within the separate particles)" question? As I envisage it, this would give rise to the possibility of absorption of a wide range of frequencies of EM radiation and the subsequent re-emission at other frequencies (e.g. between 4 and 16µm). Activated charcoal is a unique substance, after all.

I don't mean to be wishy-washy here - I think these observations are very interesting and deserve to be thoroughly followed up. Sounds like you'd even be in a position to do so, Yrat.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7994309 - 02/08/08 12:48 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Not another charcoal thread! Why not just post this in the last charcoal thread.

The claim of IR from charcoal is simply ridiculous.

The basis of charcoal having any effect upon germinating seeds or spores is that it absorbs inhibitory compounds present. Perhaps this even applies to absorbing some wastes.

But we have people here basically claiming that it's magic. That it emits some sort of mystery radiation that does everything from curing baldness to inhibiting bacteria. That's just plain foolishness.

Others here in the several other charcoal threads have claimed poor results from using it. So it's benefits are dubious and specialized, if indeed there are any at all.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: fastfred]
    #8016404 - 02/13/08 08:37 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Let’s see if I can add a few things.

Bamboo Charcoal is not the only IR emitting natural substance on the planet. Jade and Tourmaline come to mind. There’s not a lot of information about this IR Emission phenomenon on the net. At least not in English. Majority of research comes from Japan and Taiwan. A few ( ahem ) “Qualified” papers are available for purchase through the net. Useful abstracts are not readily available.

Here’s a few more bits gleaned with my notes below.
===

[0006] The carbon atom, a major constituent of charcoal, has 6 protons in the nucleus and 6 electrons, with 4 valence electrons in the outermost orbital thereof, and has low reactivity so that it neither loses nor gains electrons easily. Meanwhile, because charcoal has free electrons remaining unbound to atoms, it is electrically conductive and can form a magnetic field so as to provide electrons to the immediate surroundings. In addition, charcoal contains a large amount of minerals to keep the adjacent environment in a negative ion state. These anions emitted from charcoal increase the voltage across cellular membranes, allowing waste substances to be discharged from cells. In addition to five major minerals, such as calcium, potassium, iron, phosphorus, and sodium, charcoal contains copper, zinc, manganese, magnesium, chrome, molybdenum, etc., which are useful for aging prevention, blood coagulation prevention, and recovery from fatigue. Charcoal is a potent far infrared radiator whose infrared rays can minutely vibrate water and protein molecules at a frequency of 2000/min. Thus, when exposed to such infrared rays, cells are activated to promote cellular metabolism and spontaneously discharge waste substances therefrom.

[0007] In addition, charcoal shows an anti-microbial and anti-oxidant activity to inhibit the growth of microorganisms and a reduction activity to improve the freshness of neighboring materials. Charcoal also has various functions such as purifying water, generating anions to filter air, absorbing positrons, which are odorizing factors, to remove unpleasant odors, and eliminating toxic materials, such as nicotine, and pollutants, such as automobile emissions,

http://www.freshpatents.com/Packaging-method-for-removing-off-odors-from-irradiated-foods-using-charcoal-dt20070322ptan20070062155.php?type=description
===

Nano Far Infrared Ray Yarn
What is

FIR fiber is the abbreviation for Far Infra-Red Radiation fiber. The wavelength of the FIR ray emitted by this kind of fiber material is 4~14 μm. FIR ray falling under such wave band is not only harmless to health but also quite easily absorbable by human body.

FIR ray can trigger the resonance of water molecules in human body and in turn activate the water molecules adhered to cell surface, increase the friction among molecules, and lead to the formation of thermal effect.

http://www.newfibers.com.tw/
===

Far Infra Red Systems

A number of systems include the use of Far Infra Red Energy. This is a completely natural form of energy that emanates from certain minerals, the most effective being the semi-precious gem, Tourmaline. Other minerals are used, often under proprietary brand exotic names, to enhance their perceived ability. Far Infra Red energy (FIR) has the ability to soften water, to negatively charge it, and to restructure it into smaller molecular clusters which may assist in hydration of the body. Most systems use FIR by including it in the replaceable filter.

http://www.servintonline.com/watermanagement/Newsletter/vol1iss3filterstype.htm
===

Eco-fabric possesses the following properties:

1. Absorption and emission of Far Infrared Radiation
Bamboo-carbon nano particles can absorb far infrared radiation from the environment, and emit them to help in cell activation, promotes blood circulation and metabolism in the long run.

2. Antibacterial and antifungal
Bamboo thrives naturally without using any pesticide and bamboo-carbon nano particles still retains its natural antibacterial and antifungal functions, bacteriostasis and deodorization.

http://www.newlook.com.sg/ecofabric.asp
===

Woodceramics are porous carbon materials produced by high temperature carbonization of woody materials impregnated with phenol-formaldehyde (PF) resin. Useful properties include low density, hardness, corrosion resistance. They possess far-infrared ray emission and thermal characteristics.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5695882/Far-infrared-ray-emission-and.html#abstract
===

Notes : ( Comments )

can form a magnetic field so as to provide electrons to the immediate surroundings

increase the voltage across cellular membranes, allowing waste substances to be discharged from cells
( Increases membrane transporation through increased electrical potential )

minerals keep the adjacent environment in a negative ion state
( Neg Ion = anti-bacterial )

potent far infrared radiator whose infrared rays can minutely vibrate water and protein molecules at a frequency of 2000/min. Thus, when exposed to such infrared rays, cells are activated to promote cellular metabolism and spontaneously discharge waste substances
( better digestion of substrate )

anti-microbial and anti-oxidant activity to inhibit the growth of microorganisms

can trigger the resonance of water molecules in human body and in turn activate the water molecules adhered to cell surface
( effects inter as well as extra cellular water )

soften water, to negatively charge it, and to restructure it into smaller molecular clusters which may assist in hydration
( lower surface tension / wetter water )

Most systems use FIR by including it in the replaceable filter.
( Water purification industry uses FIR emitting sources in mechanical filter systems )

bamboo-carbon nano particles still retains its natural antibacterial and antifungal functions, bacteriostasis

( Additionally ) :

Woodceramics possess far-infrared ray emission and thermal characteristics.
( Gotta look into this ceramic )
===

Now, in my ( subjective ) experience :

The anti-fungal properties of bamboo charcoal extend only to the lower fungi. Mushrooms will benefit in agar where yeasts appear to suffer.

Adding any type of cellulose based charcoal to substrates and casing layers apparently aids in water transportation through the mycelia mat and fruiting body. Statements above concerning water “softening”, “molecular size” and “cellular metabolism” support my thesis.

Non cellulose based “Activated” charcoal ( Coke, coal tar, etc ) do not appear to exhibit the beneficial properties obtained with cellulose materials.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #8020260 - 02/14/08 12:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

There seems to be a few misunderstandings in your thesis. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. Emission of infrared radiation is only what it absorbs. e.g. it absorbs and radiates heat effectively. Anything that is black will absorb infrared easily, and many materials also radiate it effectively. IR can be absorbed and then radiated at different frequencies, so I suppose you could argue something to that effect, but you'd only be digging a hole IMO.

Thus there is nothing to this IR BS.

As far as anti-microbial activity... carbon is inert. It may absorb chemicals from the environment, but has no real activity of it's own. Any reduction in microbial growth is likely due to absorption of nutrients or growth factors. Thus it does nothing to kill any microbes, but it might slow some down for a little while. Thus it might be useful in some circumstances, but counting on it as an anti-microbial agent is not wise.

Charcoal may be useful in some circumstances, and this has been documented and reported in various sources, but it really seems like you're trying to make this into some sort of magical pseudo-science theory.


-FF


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: fastfred]
    #8026017 - 02/15/08 08:45 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well Neighbors,

How about this source for some confirmation?
===

Bamboo charcoal inhibits growth of HeLa cells in vitro.

raoka F, Hamada Y, Takahashi J.

Division of Oromaxillofacial Regeneration, Course for Integrated Oral Sciences and Stomatology, Osaka University Graduate School of Dentistry, 1-8 Yamadaoka, Suita, Osaka 565-0871, Japan. terachan@dent.osaka-u.ac.jp

The purpose of this work was to investigate the far infrared spectral characteristics of bamboo charcoal powder and its effect on cancer cells for use in the dental field. To analyze the effects of the powder, HeLa and WI-38 cells were used and then assessed by cell adhesion assay and WST-1 assay. The powder emitted far infrared rays at wavelengths between 4 to 16 microm. The multiplication rate of WI-38 cells showed no significant differences between the conventional culture (control group) and culture on the powder (FIR group). However, at six days after incubation, HeLa cells of FIR group had a significantly lower multiplication rate compared with the control group. Based on the far infrared rays emitted in this study, bamboo charcoal powder proved to be a promising dental filler material for cancer prevention.

PMID: 15688731 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
===

FIR emitting substances and compounds there of, are in practical application in the water filter industry. Tourmaline is used.

I will accept the Japanese , Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese research, and practical applications, as valid.

I don’t much know what else to say.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #8031012 - 02/16/08 02:12 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I want to thank the nay-sayers for providing me the impetus to study this FIR phenomenon in greater depth. ( That and the new DSL service in my hills )

The bottom line is FIR “Emitting” substances function by converting thermal energy to FIR. At least in the realm of mineral ceramic and fiber composites. I’m still searching to find if Bamboo Charcoal functions in this way.

Peace.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #8031346 - 02/16/08 04:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

JaComet,

This "re-emitted" FIR seems likely to be another form of thermal energy, meaning your charcoal absorbs heat, and re-emits it.... just like pretty much everything else out there.

Perhaps you could find somewhere that defines wavelength in terms of heat. I looked quickly but am in a rush, and couldn't find anything.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #8033901 - 02/17/08 09:51 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Greetings Yrat,

> “wavelength in terms of heat”. Perhaps a little later. For now I’m beginning to understand this ( Maybe ).

Short of it : Bamboo Charcoal acts like a transducer. Thermal to Photonic.

The Long of it ( my current take on the matter ) :

Bamboo Charcoal may be considered a matrix of Carbon Nanotubes permeating the crystal lattice structure of reduced plant material.

Heat / Thermal Transference = changing Phonon Resonance (1) of lattice crystals ( hexagon molecules ) = Vibrating Nanotubes ( Natural Photonic-Crystal fiber ? ) exhibiting specific band gaps or stop bands inherent in the lattice‘s sympathetic / harmonic response curve, as well as the micron diameter / proportion of the tubules ( wave guide ? ).

There is an additional probability of Photonic Emission (2) stimulated by perturbing photons from ambient Electro Magnetic Flux ( Solar Radiations / Ion-Acoustic wave ? ). If so, this would produce a net gain in number of photons emitted.

Charcoals FIR Emission being combined / confined frequency band of harmonic potentials inherent in the charcoals lattice, and / or perturbed photons, focused / directed down the tubule ( resonating chamber / tuning port ? )

(1) Phonon : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonons

(2) Photonics : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic
===

TA - DA !! ( or maybe not ) Who’d uh thunk I’d end up in Quantum Optics ? Or is it Sympathetic Vibratory Physics ?

You’ll have to excuse me if I went far a field to develop this understanding. I am an Eclectic Empiricist, after all.

Peace.


--------------------


Edited by JaComet (02/17/08 05:26 PM)


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #8056685 - 02/22/08 04:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Very interesting JaComet!

Glad you're not disheartened by detractors.

I wonder if music has any effect on micro-organisms, fungi, and indeed on the properties of charcoal?


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: worowa]
    #8059425 - 02/23/08 09:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Greetings worowa,

Quote:

worowa said:

I wonder if music has any effect on micro-organisms, fungi, and indeed on the properties of charcoal?




I'd say “Yes”, but not in this thread.

I expect to see use of charcoal in agriculture increase world wide. Specifically “Biochar”, that is, low temp charcoaling of various plant materials. The Bamboos are high temp fired.

Research shows Biochar to be a premier habitat for beneficial soil organisms. Trials have run from field crops to carefully cultured Orchids. I see where a little charcoal in pasteurized mushroom substrate would be prudent.

Peace.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9543562 - 01/04/09 02:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Call me a crazy old coot, but I do enjoy research.

I contend the Infrared emitting properties of Bamboo Charcoal aid mycelial development through suppression of bacterial growth and promotion of  cellular metabolism and tissue generation/regeneration.

Mycelial vigor may be affected by the dielectric properties of various vegetable charcoal added to substrates and casing materials.
-----------------------------------------

Nanotubes shown to boost neuron signals
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212700093

PORTLAND, Ore. — A team of researchers in Italy and Switzerland found carbon nanotubes to be a biocompatible material that can be attached to specific neurons to enhance their natural signal-processing capabilities.

"Our findings show that carbon nanotubes, which are as good an electrical signal conductor as the nerve cells of our brain, form intimate mechanical contacts with the cellular membranes, establishing a functional link to neuronal structures," said University of Trieste (Italy) professor Laura Ballerini.

Many studies over the last few years have demonstrated that carbon nanotubes can improve the health of neural networks by promoting cell attachment, differentiation and growth.
-----------------------------------------------------

Microbial Neural Network: Artificial Intelligence from Fungi
http://www.montegen.com/html/body_a_multifunctional_biochip.htm

ANALOGIES BETWEEN NEURON NETWORK AND MYCELIUM. Typical neuron consists of the cell body, branching dendrites, (NOTE: i.e. rizmorphic) one axon with collaterals. The neurons are connected between themselves throughout stimulating and braking synapses. The natural NN-like mycelial network also has interhyphae electric contacts. It is proposed that these contacts hyperpolarize or depolarize the membrane potential in the apical region of hyphae as the consequences of disposition of electric contacts from the apices and syncronism of polarity of electric fields applied to contacting mycelia. Individual mycelia may be considered as neuron-like biological element of neurocomputer. The difference between neuron and mycelium is in great number of mycelial exit channels. Natural neural networks and mycelial networks are very similar systems. Taking into account the technological possibility to cultivate the fungal mycelium and to connect them with any electric system, it would be interesting to create the hybrid of FAI and computer-enhanced learning and working system.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder where the negative ion potential of Bamboo Charcoal fits into this.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #9543684 - 01/04/09 02:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is an argument of serious science vs. esoteric beliefs. Beneficial in fungal cultures or not, charcoal is NOT steady state emitting IR radiation. That's just absurd.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: German Kahuna]
    #9545282 - 01/04/09 07:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Are you sure GK?  I sometimes dream of ghosts speaking to me about information they psychically steal from secret Russian KGB scientists and they tell me that this charcoal IR emission research is quite reliable.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: fastfred]
    #9549421 - 01/05/09 06:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

By GOD!!  Fastfred, I think you’ve GOT IT!

Out of the 3,600 some odd degreed scientists working at Taiwan's government-funded Industrial Technology Research Institute, there MUST be some infiltrators and agents.  These agents report to their handlers on the mainland who report to their Masters in Moscow  who keep it a State Secret that your  liberty loving ghost friends steal for the good of the Free World.

Why oh why didn’t I see this before?

It’s a COMMIE  NEST  CORN  SPEERIZE

                *  *  *

Meanwhile, back on the farm,: I’m going to try and find more info on Stamets’ work regarding the dielectric relationship between fungi and insects.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #9549971 - 01/05/09 10:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Look people. I quoted earlier on that  Bamboo Charcoal absorbs and re radiates infrared.

“Eco-fabric possesses the following properties:

1. Absorption and emission of Far Infrared Radiation
Bamboo-carbon nano particles can absorb far infrared radiation from the environment, and emit them to help in cell activation, promotes blood circulation and metabolism in the long run.”
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8016404#Post8016404

The best I can discern from available sources is, depending on the bamboo strain and processing particulars, the stuff re-radiates at up to 87% efficiency.

That’s about all I have to say on the F.I.R. subject.

Except, Japanese white charcoal  made from Ubame Oak (Quercus phillyraeoides) is second behind Bamboo in F.I.R emission for generating negative anions. 9 parts by weight of  Oak = 7 parts of Bamboo, in overall “output”.  The mechanism is: F.I.R. interacting with ambient humidity to produce neg charge.

OK. Is “Re-Radiation” an acceptable term?

Anyway, current interest is in the electrical properties and potential as applies to bacterial inhibition and cellular transporation.

Heaven forbid I start a thread on Paramagnetic or Monopole magnetic influence or (Woo-Woo of  all Woo-Woo’s)  Vortex Energy.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #9551287 - 01/05/09 03:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bamboo-carbon nano particles can absorb far infrared radiation from the environment, and emit them to help in cell activation, promotes blood circulation and metabolism in the long run.”




Translation: When you apply non-contact heat (aka infrared radiation) to the substance it warms up...  Then, by virtue of being warm it will radiate infrared heat.  Further, this heat can promote circulation and metabolism.

It's rubbish.  It's just a restatement of the obvious.  It's long been known that a hot pack or electric blanket will promote circulation and that this also increases metabolism.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: fastfred]
    #9553873 - 01/05/09 10:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

^^ what he said.

thanks fred, you put into words exactly what i was too lazy to try and think up to type.  this thread should have remained a year old.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Yrat]
    #9554906 - 01/06/09 01:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

this is all very interesting....

I have found chunks of coals leftover from burning wood pallets for outdoor pasteurization get mixed up in my straw.  The chunk gets fully colonized throughout and the mycellium seems to like it much. 

Perhaps I might try a small straw log experiment with powdered coal water as the straw soak. vs unsterilized straw log with pleurotus.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9556897 - 01/06/09 12:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Charcoal (activated carbon) is recognized as having a very high porosity and CEC (cation exchange capacity). In soil or simulated soil media, this can be very beneficial.

I also suspect that charcoal (and coffee) affect the redox potential of the growing media. In nature, a heavy rain will deprive the soil of oxygen, and lead to reducing conditions ... a whole different set of chemical reactions in a reducing environment. Iron rusts and turns red in an oxidizing environment, but its form changes and it turns black in a reducing environment. The redox state affects the solubility of compounds, and enzymes need metals with a particular redox state.

Infrared?  No evidence that charcoal is special.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Jonat]
    #9562639 - 01/07/09 07:33 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Buckeye.

In my experience adding low fired charcoals to substrates and/or casing  layers  keeps everything “sweeter”.  Hard to quantify. A gardener would relate. (Bio-Char is the “Green” catch phrase)

I presume you are not planning on pasteurizing the charcoaled straw.  I’ll be interested to see your results if low fire has enough  “umph” to favorably effect  contam issues.

The interesting stuff happens with electrically conductive charcoals.

Jonat.

“Redox”. Thanks. I was trying to remember the term. Will help in my searches.

I would expect the abundance of available negative ions, provided by certain high fired charcoals, to be beneficial to the overall metabolism of mycelium, aiding in cellular transpiration. Given the electrical conductance and resulting weak force electrical field we got electroporation maybe?

As far as F.I.R. properties of certain charcoals go (and minerals and ceramics), accept what you will. I’ve finally got a line on Dr. Rustam Rakhimov which is bearing fruit for me.

All the best, everyone.

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
HAMLET Act 1. Scene V - By Sir Francis Bacon, a.k.a. William Shakespeare


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #9562865 - 01/07/09 09:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I found an interesting video demonstration of  ambient temperature Far-Infrared emitting ceramics. Or so the claim.



I have no financial interest in the products, but this is a commercial demonstration. You Tube vid  6:53.


Edited by JaComet (01/11/09 05:08 AM)


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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: JaComet]
    #9562872 - 01/07/09 09:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'd be careful with using charcoal, generated with low heat, like that 'bio-char' stuff. Is contains loads of organic molecules, which are poisonous and cancerogenous, like polyaromatic carbohydrates.

Carsten


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Mycelio]
    #9564172 - 01/07/09 02:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The charcoal i am going to use is from a very hot pallet fire.


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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9573303 - 01/08/09 10:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Here is my experiment.  I placed about 2 gal of warm water in a unclean (from outside with leaves and junk in it) bucket and added about 2 cups of powdered regular charcoal ground by mortar and pestle.  The straw was submerged in the char water for 7-8 hours, drained and with clean hands inoculated with 2 qts rye of malabar cubensis, placed in a clear new plastic trash bag, and stabbed about 30x for vent and drain.




Now it is tomorrow and the grain looks like its recovering as it should.


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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: German Kahuna]
    #9603393 - 01/13/09 09:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well, colonized for 5 days then hay seeds sprouted of course and bacteria set in, so I had to toss.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Charcoal’s Secret : [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9612973 - 01/15/09 07:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That’s about what I expected, given the parameters of your experiment. Thanks at least for giving it a go.

My experience is in agar and small casing mixes. I’ll continue to use it and experiment. Perhaps this just something for me.

I’m currently running Bamboo Charcoal plates subjected to various magnetic influence and those with magnets are markedly faster growing than those without.

It’s an electrical universe after all.


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