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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Casing Questions.
    #6024699 - 09/03/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

1. Im using PH paper to test my casing mix. Do I just stick it in the pile of casing mix, or do I run some water through it and test the water? 

2. Do i want to test the peat before I mix it with the other stuff, or do I want to test the entire mix?

3. What is the real difference between limestone and oyster shells.  In the searching ive done on the forum ive read some vague tidbits about the limestone being more soluable??

groworganic . com/item_F1850_OysterShellLime50Lb.html
groworganic . com/item_F1570_Marblewhite325SolutionGradeMined.html

Thanks guys!!  :grin:

*edited url to make site viewable*


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

Edited by SerratedFrond (09/03/06 11:47 AM)

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Offlinecoda
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024708 - 09/03/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

you use the hydrated lime to instantly buffer your casin, the oystershell flour works for you in the long run. This is why it's beneficial to use both. By using the hydrated lime you will balance out the PH first, and the oyster shell flour allows you to fruit over a longer period of time without having to add anything else.

Can't help you with the litmus strips, i use a PH meter from my mj grow.


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024715 - 09/03/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You want to test the entire mix, and it must be moist to test.


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: coda]
    #6024716 - 09/03/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That isnt hydrated lime. I use the hi-yield brand for this. That is just calcium carbonate, but from natural limestone.

What sort of PH meter do you use? How much was it? and how accurate is it?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024717 - 09/03/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Squeeze a bit of water out of the casing mix and test that with your strips. You can test just the peat or the whole mix. Be sure to let the peat sit moisturized for at least an hour before testing. Set the ph to an initial level of 8 to 8.5.

Limestone is ground rock that is mined from the earth. Oyster shells are a byproduct of the seafood industry. Both will work, as will hydrated lime. Use up to ten percent gypsum by volume.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024720 - 09/03/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So they work essentially the same? ok, then Ill buy the cheaper oyster shells.
Gypsum? another player in the mix? What does IT do? (starts searching posts)


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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Offlinecoda
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024722 - 09/03/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

oh, you'll have to excuse me, i just assumed the hydrated lime as that's what is reccomeded to use.

I use the zd-05 soil PH and moisture tester.  It ran me about 70 bucks, BUT, you can most likely get one cheaper from an online source.  I picked mine up in a hydro shop and they inflate their prices (had my normal guys been working i would have probably gotten it for 60 bucks or cheaper).  However the meter i have could only be used right after you mixed the casing layer is it requires you to bury the meter about 2 inches into the soil to be tested.  So if you used it after applying the casing layer you'd be testing the PH of your substrate and also would be leaving a 1 inch wide and 2 inch deep hole in it as well :wink:


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024728 - 09/03/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

well I meant before or after mixing the casing, (i.e. peat, or peat + verm + calcium carb)

I think ill just stick with the strips. ive heard that you cant get a decent PH probe for less then 50 bux.


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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Offlinecoda
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024749 - 09/03/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

your right, you can't, at least not one that you want to stay accurate for more then a year. At least i havent been able to find one. I paid a bunch for mine since it was what was highly reccomended to me to use(although it's more for my mj project then my mushrooms). Litmus strips will work just fine for what you need them for.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

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OfflineSerratedFrond
Pinning

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 131
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024754 - 09/03/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok so apparently putting gypsum with the grains is pretty popular. But why mix it in with the casing?

groworganic . com/item_F1152_CalCMPlusDualPurposeGypsum50Lb.html

This stuff any good? It says it leeches magnesium, and I know we dont like that stuff.


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

Edited by SerratedFrond (09/03/06 11:58 AM)

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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024878 - 09/03/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

from what i understand gypsum makes your ph more stable i.e it wont allow it to change very much.and it also adds salt i think not sure about that one though


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"Anything i say is fictional"
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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024881 - 09/03/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hey RR,
I found this post from you in another thread
"Oyster shell is good too. Use it. Gypsum supplies both calcium and sulphur, which are used in fruitbody production. Most importantly, gypsum has the awesome benefit of moderating swings in ph, so even if you use a bit too much lime, or the mycelium secretes lots of acids, the ph stays very near neutral."

So limestone, shell flour, and gypsum all accomplish the same goal as a long term buffer? However, you recommend gypsum over the other two?

So shell flour/limestone doesnt provide sulphur?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

Edited by SerratedFrond (09/03/06 12:52 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6024976 - 09/03/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No. I recommend gypsum in addition to limestone flour, oyster shell flour, or hydrated lime to swing the ph higher. Peat has a ph of 5 or so, which is the favorite range for green molds. By liming the casing layer to an initial ph of 8, the mushroom mycelium can still colonize and use it, but the contaminant molds won't be able to get a foothold.

Gypsum won't swing your ph either way. It will just tend to keep it where it is, so you need to be sure to use some sort of buffer such as lime to adjust the ph.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Registered: 06/16/04
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Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Casing Questions. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6025145 - 09/03/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I am using hi-yield lime to make my initial adjustment to 7.5/8.0. I am just trying to make a decision on which LONG TERM buffer to use.

If you say that gypsum doesnt "swing" PH, then when that hydrated lime runs out, wont the PH dive back to 5?

Are you saying I should use gypsum in addition to calcium carbonate?
If so, how much do you suggest?
i.e. 10% gypsum and 10% calcium carbonate ?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

Edited by SerratedFrond (09/03/06 02:52 PM)

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6026378 - 09/03/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok well ive learned some interesting things about gypsum and CaCO3

First the latter is not soluable in water at "standard temperature and pressure".  So I wonder if that is the reason WHY it is a buffer, because it dissolves only in acid? 

Second, if the above is not true, then the mined/pulverised limestone (linked in 1st post) would be better as a PH buffer.  It isnt that it is different then oyster shells, it being deposited shells of more ancient creatures, just that it has had all this while to degrade into something more soluable in water. 
If that is desirable . . I dunno Im not a chemist


Gypsum is apparently found heavily in plaster of paris, as well as drywall . .and drierite (the desiccant) is just superheated gypsum.

Is plaster of paris a good idea?  Ive read it contains Calcium Hydroxide (or hydrated lime).  I could possibly use plaster of paris for both my quick PH adjust and as my gypsum additive. 
depending on the Mg Oxide percentage. . .

Anyway, Im still unclear exactly how gypsum applies to a casing layer, and in what amounts it would be usefull

*BUMP*

any help is appreciated!!  :laugh:


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

Edited by SerratedFrond (09/03/06 10:27 PM)

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6027919 - 09/04/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Alright . . I know everyone is off from work today, so I am going to give this another bump and hope someone delivers the goods.

*bumpity*


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6027989 - 09/04/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post6002286

Hi-Yield is not what you want.
_______________

Add Gypsum as well as lime.

for each cup of peat add:

1 teaspoon of hydrated horticultural lime
1-2 tablespoons of Garden Gypsum

there's your ratio.
_____________________

Plaster of Paris is NOT what you want.
______________________

Gypsum:

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Gypsum won't lower the ph. It is a buffer that tends to keep the ph at neutral. Gypsum contains both calcium which raises ph, and sulphur, which lowers ph. Between them they work to avoid swings in the ph. Gypsum is great for use with rye berries, as both calcium and sulphur are necessary nutrients for fruitbody formation, and as an added benefit, the gypsum keeps the berries from sticking together.
RR




Gypsum with Grains

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5741223
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5815953
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5389857


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5956137


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Posts: 2,691
Re: Casing Questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #6028069 - 09/04/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Fucking sweet post Mitch!  :thumbup:


--------------------
My Humidifier Reservoir Expansion Tek

Must read links for beginners

Btw- You are not what you own!

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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: musher_420]
    #6028394 - 09/04/06 02:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the resources the RESOURCES!
Thanks alot mitch. *thumbs up*
I simply could not turn up such sufficient info on my searches.
Although I have read a few of those threads already, the rest are awesome!

groworganic . com/item_F1152_CalCMPlusDualPurposeGypsum50Lb.html
Is this similar to the garden gypsum?

So here is what I am thinking:
30% peat
30% verm
10% coir
10% calcium carb
10% gypsum

So with the hydrated lime, anything thats used in rose gardens to "sweeten soil" and has less then 3% Mg. Got it, but I wonder if Ill even need it.

I think I may mix a small batch of this up and let it soak for an hour, and then test it to see where my PH lies. If it is still pretty acidic I may choose to adjust with some calcium hydroxide.

If/When I do this, is it advisable to adjust JUST the peat alone (to around 8 or 9), before I add the rest? I know to leave out the verm since it is inert anyway, but what about the gypsum and calcium carbonate?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6028425 - 09/04/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

add all dry ingredients to the peat, when it's still dry.

mix the lime, gypsum and peat together dry,
then add water to field capacity.

not all peat moss and vermiculite are equal.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/favlinke...r=1&postmarker=

so testing the ph of the peat is advisable,
and testing the ph of the final mix is also advisable.

wanted:

or
One of these Gypsums

and


This Hydrated Lime


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #6028530 - 09/04/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Excellent, I think I have this dialed in. The rest is trial and error. Thanks again for your help.

Id like to find everything I need yet in the same location, or at least nearby. I need coir, calc carb, and hydrated lime.

Do you recommend those brands because they are "tried and true"?
Will a similar thing from another hardware store do?

I havent tried my local hydro or brew shops, and after reading some of those posts I think this is my best bet. Id really like to avoid having to pay for shipping if I can.


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: Casing Questions. [Re: SerratedFrond]
    #6028541 - 09/04/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yes, tried and true.

similar = most likely not.
possible, but rare.


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OfflineSerratedFrond
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Re: Casing Questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #6030804 - 09/05/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I found some gypsum at a local brewing shop. Gypsum naturally contains calciuma nd sulphur correct? It isnt like an additive or something in "Garden" gypsum?


--------------------

Genesis 1:29
AsalamAlakum ~ SF

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