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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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What is a strain?
    #601856 - 04/08/02 02:14 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Are their any advanced mycologists here that can state with certainty what genetic characteristics separate one strain from another? How would one positively identify a strain? Is there an actual biological definition or is this a fuzzy classification?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: Swami]
    #601867 - 04/08/02 02:24 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Strain
The equivalent of race in plants and animals. The same species may consist of strains that vary considerably in genetic make up, but all are sexually compatible

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: Swami]
    #601922 - 04/08/02 04:57 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not an advanced mycologist but as far as your question about genetic chracteristics separating strains goes all i can tell you is that you have to make a macroscopical and microscopical examination. Take the cap from strain A and strain B, different size, color and shape makes it for a strain comparison in macroscopical terms. An example of microscopical analisis is the one made to spores (size, color, shape). Normally, when strain A is macroscopically indentical to strain B, a microscopical analisis is made, spores from different strains are never equal.

Peace,
MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: MAIA]
    #602107 - 04/08/02 10:48 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

What's in a strain? That which we call a cube
By any other name would stain as blue. . .

Sorry, went to a play Saturday :smile:

 

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Invisibleking_for_a_day
EmperorPriapisticDiscordite I
Registered: 10/14/01
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: Suntzu]
    #602144 - 04/08/02 11:34 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

I'm trying to puzzle some things out about the whole master/clone vs. multispore thing. Fungi were regrettably absent from biology class.
Here goes:
When you innoculate a jar with spores, there is the potential for multiple substrains (would that be the right word?) to be colonizing the same substrate, correct? This I assume is why combining jars from the same syringe in casings does not work so well, as I found out experimenting. So when you crumble a jar inoculated at 4 points, are there only 4 substrains or possibly more? Should I just try to keep the portions of the jar somewhat separate as I case? Bigger chunks seem to do better, and grinding up the jar a la the Old Timer's Tek didn't do much of anything.
Plenty more questions to follow, but this should be a good start.

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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
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Registered: 07/26/00
Posts: 2,680
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: king_for_a_day]
    #602173 - 04/08/02 12:06 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

So when you crumble a jar inoculated at 4 points, are there only 4 substrains or possibly more?



If there was only 1 spore per innoculation point then there will be a maximum of 2 substrains, assuming the 4 spores are sexually compatible.
In reality your average PF style jar will probably contain dozens+ substrains of whatever "strain" of spores you're using.
On the OT straw tek, yes if you whizz up a jar with say 20 substrains and it gets all mixed up with the straw each particle of subststrain will only colonise a tiny proportion of the available substrate.
The thing being that the more vigorous substrains tend to beat out the inferior ones, and decent fruits can still happen,
Though sometimes they don't.
Colonising all the substrate with one proven strain is the way to go to get the best yields per unit of substrate, though it's a bit trickier than a multispore innoc.


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hmmm........

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Invisibleking_for_a_day
EmperorPriapisticDiscordite I
Registered: 10/14/01
Posts: 5
Re: What is a strain? [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #602324 - 04/08/02 03:24 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

so if numerous syringes were made from a single fruit they're gauranteed to be the same correct? What about in a petri, how small of a piece would one have to transfer to assure that only one strain is present later, assuming the first was done multispore? One other question about agar though not the same topic: when cutting an agar tray into wedges, are you supposed to try to only transfer the mycellium, or the agar under as well? I don't use bacteria resistent agar and was wondering how likely the chance that the uncolonized agar will get herpes on it or something.

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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: What is a strain? [Re: king_for_a_day]
    #602376 - 04/08/02 04:24 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Numerous syringes from a single fruit. .  .if you made numerous syringes from the tissue of a single fruit [cloning], then they'd be the same.  If you made numerous syringes from a single spore print you have a mating gangbang going on at each inoculation point.
There are quite a few possibilities with agar. . .if you get a vigorous mating combo that takes off from a multispore inoculation point, you could effectively have a single-genotype wedge [i.e. 'pure'] on the first multispore plate.  Many pictures are around where you can see obvious thick sectors branching out from a multispore inoc.  It's quite possible that one or two of the wedges are 'pure'.  A secondary transfer/grow-out session is a good idea, though, as some of the more dud-ish matings can be wispy-type growth that is tough to see on the primary plate. 
Honestly, it's just easier and more reliable to clone tissue from an admirable flush.

Rule of thumb, if you cut out an agar wedge and don't see gunk or mold on it, it's sterile.  Don't know about herpes viruses, though :smile:
 

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