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OfflinePhred
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: Asante]
    #6013126 - 08/30/06 09:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Once again, WS, there is no credible evidence that Hussein is being forced to watch this episode. The ONLY people who are saying this are Parker and Stone, the creators of South Park. These guys are renowned jokers, and not exactly an unimpeachable source.

Until we get a second source for this allegation, it is best to treat it as a hoax.





Phred


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6013603 - 08/30/06 11:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:34 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: Redstorm]
    #6013738 - 08/30/06 11:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:35 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6013795 - 08/31/06 12:01 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Do you know what genocide means? It has a specific definition. It's not just a lot of people dying because of negligence or malicious action. It has to be a concetrated effort to kill off an entire segment of the population. What occurred in Dresden, or even in Japan was not an act of genocide.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6013852 - 08/31/06 12:16 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:37 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: Redstorm]
    #6013952 - 08/31/06 12:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:37 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6014265 - 08/31/06 02:41 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:38 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6014329 - 08/31/06 03:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:39 PM)


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InvisibleDexter_Morgan
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6014404 - 08/31/06 04:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
What Ward Churchill and others are saying in regards to U.S. imperialism is reflective of the antagony the majority of the world's population feels towards America & Israel. Travel a bit and this sendiment is easy to see.

Second, he did not equate the low-level service workers in those buildings to the technocrats who were contributing architects of genocidal U.S. foreign policy. He simply stated that if Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima & Nagasaki were justified military targets (which the corporate version of American history teaches), then so too were the trade centers and the Pentagon.

"...When an aggressor force continually launches attacks from a particular base of operations, it is sound military strategy to take the flight to the enemy. Additionally, borrowing a page from U.S. foreign policy, I decided to send a message to a government that was becoming increasingly hostile, by bombing a government building and the government employees within that building who represent that government. Bombing the Murrah Federal Building was morally and strategically equivalent to the U.S. hitting a government building in Serbia, Iraq, or other nations. Based on observations of the policies of my own government, I viewed this action as an acceptable option. From this perspective what occurred in Oklahoma City was no different than what Americans rain on the heads of others all the time, and, subsequently, my mindset was and is one of clinical detachment. (The bombing of the Murrah Building was not personal no more than when Air Force, Army, Navy or Marine personnel bomb or launch cruise missiles against (foreign) government installations and their personnel." - Timothy McVeigh




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And another one of your heroes is Timothy McVeigh??? Who's next? Ted Kuczinsky? A truly impressive list. This is why you are essentially a mute buffoon. Enjoy your utter irrelevance. You do realize you are doomed to an existence of summary dismissal, don't you?




Where does he mention Hero.

I was blown away by reading the quote, before i saw who it was attributed to. I figured UBL, but I guess McVeigh is just like the rest of the terrorist.

But was EntheogenicPeace praising this? No, He was stating how terrorist use OUR bombing policies (Bomb the trade centers of Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima & Nagasaki) to (attempt) to cripple economies. The Bombing of the World TRADE center was an obvious target.

i don't see an endorsement, I see a terrorist using our tactics. We, the US had NO REASON to bomb Dresden. It is on the Eastern Front, and we only helped the Russians beat us to Berlin. The only reason to bomb Dresden was to cripple Germany's trade.

Enter Iron Curtain



As far as criminals are criminals. If you bulldoze my families house, to build your own structure, on land that the UN has told you is not yours, land you did not claim before 1967, and children throw rocks at you, are they criminals?

Fighting against an Illegal Occupation makes someone a criminal?

Would you make this argument in Philadelphia in 1775?

Only the Stinky French supported our independence, but Palestinian have everyone but Israel and the US.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6014693 - 08/31/06 08:28 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Neither borders nor the concept of land ownership existed in this hemisphere prior to the arrival of the genocidal slave-trader Columbus.




I doubt that. Native American tribes frequently warred with each other over hunting grounds. Villages burnt to the ground. South American tribes commited genocide agansit each other. To propose that these evils only appeared once white man stepped foot on the contintent is preposterous.

It would be difficult to consider you a source on the history of the American contintent at that time, anyways. There is no sense in asserting bold truths when you have no grounds to base it upon. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6014710 - 08/31/06 08:46 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Entheogenic Peace said:
One does not have to be successful in complete extermination for an effort to be genocidal in both intent and practice. Because Hitler did not killing every Jew in the world does not mean his efforts and their effects were not genocidal. The same goes for the European settlers towards indigenous Indians in the Western Hemisphere, or towards Africans during trans-Atlantic slavery. U.S. militarism in Southeast Asia also was both deliberate and systematic mass murder.

Additional examples for such murder & mayhem include: Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Colombia, Chile, Grenada, Cuba, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama, Yugoslavia, Zaire, East Tumor, Korea, the Philippines, and others.

Over the last century the U.S. has instigated more wars and involved int self in more conflicts around the globe than any other nation-state in history. Its military budget currently outspends the next 20 or so nations combined . It sells more arms, munitions, and military equipment than the next dozen or so nations combined. Whenever a child is maimed and murdered by land mines, cluster bombs, and other unexploded munitions, there's a good chance that "Made in America" is on the outside.

To say that America is a genocidal and imperialist empire is to put it kindly.

"The trouble is that when American dollars earn only six percent over here, they get restless and go overseas to get 100 percent. The flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to defend some lousy investment of the bankers. We should fight only for the defense of our home and the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It had its 'finger men' to point out enemies, its 'muscle men' to destroy enemies, its 'brain men' to plan war preparations and a 'Big Boss' — super nationalistic capitalism. I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tamiko safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. War is a racket." - Gen. Medley D. Butler

"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." - George Orwell






Thats right!!!! Every major problem in the world, comes from America!!!! Holy shit, stop the motherfucking press!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: Phred]
    #6014828 - 08/31/06 10:49 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Once again, WS, there is no credible evidence that Hussein is being forced to watch this episode.




I know this, but for the sake of discussion it is interesting to assume that it did happen. For the sake of discussing the implications of an event the reality level of the event isn't important :smile:

If it happened then see my above bla, if it didn't then thats far better, but at least we had an interesting discussion out of it.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6015176 - 08/31/06 01:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:40 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6015242 - 08/31/06 02:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:40 PM)


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: Redstorm]
    #6015273 - 08/31/06 02:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Don't be pretentious; I was just asking a question. I'll do some reading on all of those, but none of them look too recent. Do we no longer have a policy of genocide or something?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Americas

...and I would not use the term genocide, personally. certainly, mass murder, torture, assassination, terrorism, etc fit better.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6015664 - 08/31/06 04:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Timothy McVeigh... one of my heroes?!?

God, you love putting words into other people's mouths & making false assumptions.

I have no ideological connection to him whatsoever (he was associated with the "Christian Identity" movement, a white supremacist organization)

I used the quote because Timothy McVeigh was trained by the U.S. military (he was awarded a Bronze Star medal). His insight in that writing makes a chillingly profound and revealingly honest point about the detachment many Americans have when it comes to the realities & consequences of their aggression around the world.




There is no insight or profundity in McVeigh's wheedle. What there is is the rantings of an arch narcissist attempting to justify his crime by equating himself with the force and power and moral authority of a consensus population. Clearly deranged. The notion that every man is a law unto himself is discredited in every application. He quite simply murdered hundreds of other humans who, by his own definition of moral authority and right to exist, each held equal stature to him. Who the fuck did he think he was that he should decide who should live or die. Which is an entirely different discussion from that of the action of nation states.
Quote:





When Americans say they have a history of fighting the "bad guys", the "evildoers" of the world, they are incapable of feeling empathy for what they are actually doing; a mass genocide against the poor & oppressed for the purpose of creating and maintaining a favorable climate for overseas investment.




Any fucking link to any indication that this is happening anywhere would bolster your argument. And I bet you managed to find a great deal to admire in Ted Koscinski's manifesto as well.
Quote:



In Vietnam instead of someone's mother or father, or husband or wife, or son or daughter being murdered, maimed, or burned by napalm, it was "communists" or "gooks"; a detached classifiction designed to dehumanize others so Americans would be accepting of such inhumane destruction.




One could just as easily turn this fatuous nonsense around to your characterization of evil white Amerikkkan capitalists as a dehumanized enemy. An intellectually useless exercise in Churchillian nonsense, akin to his dehumanized "Little Eichmanns". Blah, blah, blah.
Quote:





Please, if you are going to make false accusations, make them a little more believable next time.

"We have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. Our minimal expectation is to occupy it as an American colony and maintain social stability for our investments. This tells why American helicopters are being used against guerrillas in Colombia and Peru. Increasingly the role our nation has taken is the role of those who refuse to give up the privileges and pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investment." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.




I am not aware that MLK Jr was ever in a position to either know or make US policy anywhere. His utterances in regard to this matter thus hold absolutely zero weight. His sole area of expertise was the condition of the Negro in American up until the mid 1960s.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Sadaam made to watch south park repeatedly [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6015729 - 08/31/06 05:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Zappa, the fundamental worldview you espouse is that of the existing social order; a white-imperialist power structure where the death of a relatively small number of predominantly white people is a "barbaric terrorist attack", while the deaths of millions of poor people of color is "acceptable collateral damage".

You call occupation soldiers (who happen to be of white European ancestry) legitimate, but condemn resistance fighters (who happen to be darker-skinned and of Middle-eastern ancestry) defending their homeland as terrorists. Somehow, I don't think that if in 50 years the Chinese military invaded the mainland of the U.S. and installed a puppet government to give its companies control of material resources, that your position on resistance to occupation would be the same.




No sir. The color of the oppressor is irrelevant to my position, which is that the Israelis are the oppressed. What is repeatedly ignored is that the entire middle east map was redrawn and that none of these states existed prior. They were all part of the Ottoman Empire. Israel has never attempted any adventurism, despite the lies of the Muslims. They are the ones dedicated to the eradication of a whole people. Israel does not belong to them and the so-called Palestinian territories never existed. They were parts of other nations, to wit Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, all of which attempted to destroy Israel, a nation with just as much legitimacy as any of them. These nations don't even want them back. Egypt got the Sianai back and said fuck the Gaza Strip. Jordan isn't the least bit interested in getting the West Bank back or taking in the people who live there. Lebanon was totally restored and look how that turned out. (Your implication that the Israeli hostages were on Lebanese soil has absolutely no foundation in reality). And Syria has not been making any noises that I'm aware of regarding the Golan Heights but they are not to be trusted anyway, they remain dedicated to the destruction of Israel, unlike Jordan and Egypt.
Quote:



If we were having this conversation 20 or so years ago, you would be (as the U.S. & Israeli governments did) legitimizing (not only in the form of recognition, but also economic and military support for) the apartheid regime of South Africa, while condemning Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress as a terrorist organization.




I would love to see a link for any of this alleged military and economic support for S. Africa. Why would S. Africa need any economic aid? And they were a British and Dutch colony. They're the ones who set up the whites only regime. None of your loons now, a real source. And who's putting words in whose mouth?
Quote:



You use the common fascist tactic of painting me as an extremist out of touch with reality, but in reality I'm speaking how the majority of the world feels on the general topic of U.S. imperialism. If you were to travel around the world right now and ask random people who they think the greatest threat to world peace is, what do you think their answer would be? (hint: it's not Iran).




Whatever you say. I didn't know that was a common fascist tactic. Gotta link? You spout the same shit as Ward Churchill and Noam Chomsky, both of whom are marginalized. So, ipso facto, you are marginalized. I have no idea what the rest of the world thinks, I know what happens here. I also know most Americans can't identify the Vice President by name. So what?
Quote:



I conclude this post with two inspirational and provocative statements from two extraordinary people:

The first from a dear brother and comrade in the struggle:

"Conventional wisdom would have one believe that it is insane to resist this, the mightiest of all empires... But what history really shows is that today's empire is tomorrow's ashes. That nothing lasts forever, and that to not resist is to acquiesce in your own oppression. The greatest form of sanity that anyone can exercise is to resist that force that is trying to repress, oppress, and fight down the human spirit." - Mumia Abu Jamal




Great, another murderer, no surprise here
Quote:



The second from one the greatest human beings to ever live:

"Why does the guerrilla fighter fight? We must come to the inevitable conclusion that the guerrilla fighter is a social reformer, that he takes up arms responding to the angry protest of the people against their oppressors, and that he fights in order to change the social system that keeps all his unarmed brothers in ignominy and misery." - Ernesto "Che" Guevara




And another.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6015771 - 08/31/06 05:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:41 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6015792 - 08/31/06 05:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:42 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6015803 - 08/31/06 05:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/27/14 06:42 PM)


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