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necronomicshaman
Hunter Gatherer
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 3
Loc: US
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Keeping the cake in the Jar
#6007312 - 08/29/06 06:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, following the Tek provided in my book it states that following the normal PF tek i should pop the cakes out of the jar, but in this "improved" version the cakes will be staying in the Jar. I know the first rule is follow the fucking tek, but should i pop the cakes out anyways?
-------------------- "and a voice was screaming, "Sweet Jesus what are the God-damned animals!!!!!"
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RogerRabbit
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You can grow 'invitro' in the jar with little effort, but yields will be ten percent of what you can get if you birth and follow established procedures. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6007386 - 08/29/06 07:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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10% ? that is not even near accurate, rodger. i regularly got 6+ dry from invitro cakes and i daresay even birthed cakes won't give 60 dry...
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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dampkring
Traveler
Registered: 08/23/06
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The problem with in-vitro is that your multiple flush rate is diminished. You cant dunk a cake in the jar so one would think that %10 would be best case.
-------------------- The poor have to labour in the face of the majestic equality of the law, which forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. Existence would be intolerable if we were never to dream. Anatole France
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hippie3]
#6007758 - 08/29/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippie3 said: 10% ? that is not even near accurate, rodger. i regularly got 6+ dry from invitro cakes and i daresay even birthed cakes won't give 60 dry...
6 dry from an invitro cake? thats over 60 wet. are we talking half pints? that doesn't even make sense to me considering a typically prepared pf jar contains between 40-50ml of water, and even if 100% of it made it into your fruits there's still something missing from the equation here... do you get multiple flushes? that cant be from one flush...
not to mention, where is there room in a half pint jar for 60 wet grams of mushrooms?! do you have a picture of an invitro jar with 60 wet grams? im not questioning you or making you "prove" yourself or anything, im sincerely curious what 60 wet grams of mushrooms packed into a half pint jar with a cake still in it looks like.
im the first to admit ive never even done invitro except for maybe a pin or two having let a cake sit too long which is why im truly curious here... doesnt seem to add up to me
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Hippie3
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Posts: 3,090
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: creamcorn]
#6007846 - 08/29/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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that's total eventual yields, eg. more than 1 flush
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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Hippie3
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: dampkring]
#6007852 - 08/29/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dampkring said: You cant dunk a cake in the jar so one would think that %10 would be best case.
lol one can dunk a cake in a jar, easily. here is just one of many ways- http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/29135.html?1059419097
or invitro cakes can be temporarily removed, dunked then placed back invitro, no great difficulty involved.
i've often gotten 4-6 flushes from dunking invitro cakes.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
Edited by Hippie3 (08/29/06 11:14 AM)
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: creamcorn]
#6007864 - 08/29/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said:
Quote:
Hippie3 said: 10% ? that is not even near accurate, rodger. i regularly got 6+ dry from invitro cakes and i daresay even birthed cakes won't give 60 dry...
6 dry from an invitro cake? thats over 60 wet. are we talking half pints? that doesn't even make sense to me considering a typically prepared pf jar contains between 40-50ml of water
im the first to admit ive never even done invitro except for maybe a pin or two having let a cake sit too long
6 dry from an invitro cake? thats over 60 wet.- Correct
a typically prepared pf jar contains between 40-50ml of water- Wrong. 60cc's of water
im the first to admit ive never even done invitro except for maybe a pin or two having let a cake sit too long- Then why chime in?
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Hotnuts
old hand
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hotnuts]
#6007873 - 08/29/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've see many invitro 1/2 pints produce something in the vacinity of 6 grams dry. Produced by myself as well.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hotnuts]
#6007883 - 08/29/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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pictures speak louder than words so listen up-
now show me cake that gets 10x as much as those...
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hippie3]
#6007925 - 08/29/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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A lot of the success with invitro is strain/substrain related. Some strains do much better invitro than others. As hippie's picture above shows, it also helps to dump the verm barrier out at full colonization to allow more room for the fruits to develop.
I don't think anyone will argue that you can get higher yields from allowing the fruits to develop normally in a terrarium, but invitro is still a great way to keep a project stealth. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6007943 - 08/29/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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in truth the cakes shrink over time/after flushing so very soon there is plenty of room for shrooms to form but even before any shrinking the hydraulic force of the growing shroom is plenty strong enough to carve it out some space, the cake will compress, the shroom too invitro shrooms are denser and drier than terrarium-raised shrooms.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hotnuts]
#6008047 - 08/29/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: a typically prepared pf jar contains between 40-50ml of water- Wrong. 60cc's of water
the original pf tek calls for 40-45ml of water, fact.
even if you use the "max fruiting" formula of 1/2cup verm, 1/4cup brf, 1/4cup water, there's 59ml of water in 1/4 cup. and if you use some simple logic you'll realize that's 1 full cup of material, a half pint holds exactly 1 cup, so once you consider a well prepared jar isn't packed tightly, and add a dry verm layer at the top, you're not using 100% of that substrate mix - some is inevitably left over, and therefore a smaller portion of the water is truly in the jar. i stand by my numbers.
the missing part was that the claimed yields were through multiple flushes when dunking was involved, so it makes more sense once more clearly explained.
Quote:
Hotnuts said: im the first to admit ive never even done invitro except for maybe a pin or two having let a cake sit too long- Then why chime in?
why chime in? because i was curious having never done it that way myself, i think i explained that. no need for attitude. this is a discussion board, things posted should be considered open for discussion...
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Hotnuts
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: creamcorn]
#6008136 - 08/29/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wasn't harshing you creamcorn. Not at all, so don't feel like I was. But I know, as well as others with plenty of invitro experience what a 1/2 pint cake can yield invitro.
Edited by Hotnuts (08/29/06 12:40 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hotnuts]
#6008170 - 08/29/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It works with quarts of rye berries too. Here's a couple of mine. I have many more. Of course, the time factor cannot be ignored. It takes much longer for them to grow this way, so during the same time, one could grow much more by rapid cycling the growing room space. However, for stealth and ease you can't beat invitro. I think we're all on the same page here, so let's keep it nice and informative for those wishing to learn. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6008250 - 08/29/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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even the relative slowness issue can be corrected simply by giving invitro jars regular air exchanges, it's only a lack of air that slows growth, simply removing the lid briefy every few days goes a very long ways to giving normal fruiting times and yields.
-------------------- Admin @ mycotopia.net Mycotopia
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dampkring
Traveler
Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hippie3]
#6014224 - 08/31/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you! I will give this a try. You guys may be on to something.
-------------------- The poor have to labour in the face of the majestic equality of the law, which forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. Existence would be intolerable if we were never to dream. Anatole France
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dampkring
Traveler
Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6014235 - 08/31/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now I can see how rye in quarts would work, but I will have to try 8oz brown rice myself to see if it works to truly believe.
-------------------- The poor have to labour in the face of the majestic equality of the law, which forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. Existence would be intolerable if we were never to dream. Anatole France
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dampkring
Traveler
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Posts: 78
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: Hotnuts]
#6014237 - 08/31/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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what strain are you using to do this?
-------------------- The poor have to labour in the face of the majestic equality of the law, which forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. Existence would be intolerable if we were never to dream. Anatole France
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deXtrous
complete tool
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Re: Keeping the cake in the Jar [Re: dampkring]
#6014615 - 08/31/06 05:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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They all remind me of the whole bonsai kitten shit.
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