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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994361 - 08/24/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i think we'll find a small fraction of child abuse is caused by pedophiles.
the problem is not sexual dysfunction even.
the problem is human beings don't worship conception, and procreation.

i see the womb as an organic sort of time-machine that moves souls between heaven and earth.
something to be understood and loved.
like love your mother and father and children.

and i don't think a person is bad for being gay or whatever
but i do think they are bad when they don't understand the miracle power of womanhood

that is why i say dysfunctions are all just dishonesty

nobody honestly wants to be dysfunctional
or put another way, nobody wants to sin
but we are bound the Lie-cycle with lag time, which means, when you try to break free by being wholesome or honest, it takes time before you actually are.

when a person becomes honest, they respect life, and the process of life, and they keep it in mind, because it's miraculous and beautiful.
it's ignorant to ever ignore that miraculous beauty.
because it's a source of Strength.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994610 - 08/25/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Dysfunctional, in a pathological sense, in no way is related to any kind of performance but one's personal psychological function. The inability to reproduce is neither psychological dysfunction - if a particular individual is overly stressed or bothered by the reality that they cannot reproduce, then yes they are suffering from some form of psychological dysfunction. Dysfunction in psychology is consistent discombobulation of one's well being, whatever that may be (alcoholism, addiction, depression, etc). Established psychology has long adhered to this guideline. Finally, "neutral pathology" is a term you conjugated yourself from subjective certitude, it is not clinical terminology.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994664 - 08/25/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

is or is not a sex drive which does not attract one to adult members of the opposite sex fulfilling its biological function?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994668 - 08/25/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You are conflating biological dysfunction with psychological dysfunction.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994712 - 08/25/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You are conflating biological dysfunction with psychological dysfunction.

i would agree that:

1. homosexuality is the improper functioning the sex drive.
2. the sex drive is a subject of psychological study

i understand that for something to be a dysfunction under the use of the word used by modern psychologists, it has to cause discomfort in the subject. however, the simple fact that the sex drive is a subject of psychological study does not mean that it cannot be disfunctional in a larger, objective biological sense by failing to fulfill its biological purpose. this is so even if someone isn't bothered by their lack of interest in the opposite sex.

yes, their dysfunction doesn't cause them any pain, so as far as the psychologists are concerned, it's no problem at all. that's fine, but to a biologist, something's not working properly.

we got into this because i countered someone's statement that sexual attraction to prepubescent children was a normal and natural part of our sexuality. i reasoned that such an attraction could play no biological purpose and could not be a part of the "normal and natural" functioning of our sexuality. i would never deny that sexuality is extremely complex and there is no such thing as "normal" sexuality. what i will say is that sexual fixation on prepubescent children, as a general behavior, stems from something other than "normal and natural" sexuality. you don't rape children because you have a natural instinct to do so based on your inate desire to reproduce.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994814 - 08/25/06 01:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
is or is not a sex drive which does not attract one to adult members of the opposite sex fulfilling its biological function?



How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5995073 - 08/25/06 04:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

He doesn't.

He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.

Sex is not sacred.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995085 - 08/25/06 04:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:


He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.






It's interesting I think how people tried to stop this discussion from the get-go. I admire Xanthes self sacrificial attempts at derailment. I wonder why people are afraid of discussing this topic. So far I see that there maybe a pathological element to a sexual relationship between an adult and a child. Why is it so hard for people to discuss things? Is it because we are basically violent by nature? that violence by one means or another is our first means autonomy?


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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995107 - 08/25/06 04:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

niteowl said:


He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.






It's interesting I think how people tried to stop this discussion from the get-go. I admire Xanthes self sacrificial attempts at derailment. I wonder why people are afraid of discussing this topic. So far I see that there maybe a pathological element to a sexual relationship between an adult and a child. Why is it so hard for people to discuss things? Is it because we are basically violent by nature? that violence by one means or another is our first means autonomy?




In other words it's an oxymoron to expect a discussion from psychopaths; Interesting.


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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995114 - 08/25/06 04:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There are raging psychopaths on both sides of every issue.

This thread is a perfect example of extreme views on both sides of an argument.

As always, the truth if somewhere in the middle.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995118 - 08/25/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Sex itself, between consenting adults of the same species and opposite sex, has elements of violence I think. The conventional method is to 'Persue, Subdue, & Screw.'

A release or outlet for violent tendencies perhaps.


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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

Edited by Booby (08/25/06 04:59 AM)

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995142 - 08/25/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think that is a personal opinion that needs to be looked into.

I see no violence in my sexual experiences


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5995313 - 08/25/06 08:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

if not to ensure procreation, for what other reason(s) do you think we've evolved a sex drive?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995333 - 08/25/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.

will you please show me where i supported any of my arguments using religion as opposed to reason? what were you thinking when you read my posts?

"hmm... 'purpose of sex drive is reproduction'... that sounds like a catholic thing, /hand over ears, la la la la la"

?

i am an atheist and have been my entire life. i'm looking at this as a scientist, not a catholic. i don't have the slightest problem with use of birth control, masturbation, homosexual sex, oral sex, or any other non-procreative sexual behaviors you can come up with.

i personally love sex (even the occasional meaningless, semi-anonymous one night stand), yet i have never done it for the purpose of reproduction.

looking at things from a biological perspective, the core reason why i have a desire to do any of this is because a powerful sex drive has been handed down to me through billions of years of natural selection.

there is a reason why nature would grant men a sexual attraction to adult women and women a sexual attraction to adult men. it's also very reasonable to believe that homsexuality results when things get a little mixed up and a man is given an attraction to men, a woman is given attraction to women, or asexuality when a person is not given any sex drive at all. how, through any mistake of nature, could something such as sexual attraction to children be so common? what possible biological function could this serve?


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Edited by wilshire (08/25/06 09:06 AM)

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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995353 - 08/25/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
So jerking-off is pathological.

i jerk off because i have a sex drive which draws me to adult members of the same species and opposite sex.




Quote:

wilshire said:
By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).




Oral sex is basically not reproductively orientated and is therefor pathological by your definition.


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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995361 - 08/25/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oral sex is basically not reproductively orientated and is therefor pathological by your definition.

we've been over this already. i like getting oral sex from women because i am sexually attracted to them and because it feels good. both of these conditions are traits which i have been endowed with through natural selection encouraging reproduction.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995371 - 08/25/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i like getting oral sex from women because i am sexually attracted to them and because it feels good. both of these conditions are traits which i have been endowed with through natural selection encouraging reproduction.




Barring pre-pubescents the same can be claimed by pedo's.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995399 - 08/25/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So basicaly the classification of Pedo' is a group consensus arrived at by choosing almost arbitrarily a cutoff point whereby one is a Pedo' if one crosses that line; but nothing to do with sexual appetite otherwise. Pedo' is not a genetic thing.


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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995407 - 08/25/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I find the gender double standard that society has on the issue of child abuse to be of interest.

When the 35 year old teacher from Seattle has sex with her 12 year old student, she gets probation and no jail time UNTIL she is found later again with the same student ready to skip the country. Society feels sorry for her, she gets a TV interview and writes a book and is later forgiven by all and allowed to marry the boy after she gets out of jail.

When the 35 or so Portland area male teacher and softball coach ran off with his willing 15 year old girl on the softball team he was hardballing, her wanting to be with him meant nothing after they got caught. Kidnapping charges were added to the child abuse and rape charges and by now he's probably doing a quiet 20 years in the big house. No TV interviews, no book, no sympathy from society. And certainly no marriage, that girl's parents will make sure she never sees him again.

Just another case of the boy getting "lucky" to have met such a caring loving older woman to teach him about sex and love compared to a poor young girl who was abused, raped and victimized by some pedophile.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995486 - 08/25/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Barring pre-pubescents the same can be claimed by pedo's.

that is precisely my point. pedophiles are not attracted to prepubescent children due to an inherited trait, or even a biological "accident". it's a learned behavior.

So basicaly the classification of Pedo' is a group consensus arrived at by choosing almost arbitrarily a cutoff point whereby one is a Pedo' if one crosses that line

the line is puberty, it is not some arbitrarily chosen number of years after birth.

a great deal of human sexuality is explained by natural selection. a very large part of it is also learned behavior that has nothing to do with being biologically beneficial (disclaimer: that isn't to say it's wrong).

pedophilia is not a natural human urge. it's a learned behavior, often resulting from abuse of some sort.

i'm going to retract my earlier statement that pedophilia is the result of a dyfunctional sex drive. that would be more accurate for homosexuality or asexuality. a pedophile's sex drive is usually functioning just fine, but it's been hijacked by a learned preference for children that results from psychological reasons other than sex drive.


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