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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006408 - 08/28/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Now I support modernizing the Islamic world and supporting regimes that stop radical Islam.




And do you support Israel's actions as described in the links I provided in this thread?

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006434 - 08/28/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I am not going to answer to that because it is not ethnic cleansing. Until you show me proof that Palestinians are being lined up in front of mass graves and shot I will never call it ethnic cleansing.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006443 - 08/28/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You'd also have to assume a mass killing is because of the decision makers being racist

I think the invasion was a bad move on Israel's part, but I think it was just sheer frustration and revenge. Not that I condone that... but to say Israel is ethnically cleansing Lebanon or Palestine .. you'd have to say the same of the Palestinians. They at least ADMITTEDLY kill people just because of their race/nationality.

There can NEVER be peace as long as there is revenge.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006462 - 08/28/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yea. The Title basically screams something that happened in Kosovo, Germany, and Africa. It is basically lying about the whole article. Now, unless Jews actually executed thousands of Palestinians around a mass grave... then yea, it's ethnic cleansing.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006483 - 08/28/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
I am not going to answer to that because it is not ethnic cleansing. Until you show me proof that Palestinians are being lined up in front of mass graves and shot I will never call it ethnic cleansing.




Did you even read the article I directed you to?

Oh, and according the most used dictionary for the English language, ethnic cleansing means:

Quote:

Main Entry: ethnic cleansing
Function: noun
: the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity




http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ethnic%20cleansing

Now, go read the article and answer my question instead of side-stepping with a semantics debate.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006494 - 08/28/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I did and there lies the problem. You are assuming that killing and expulsion is the same thing. If a population was expelled and you called it ethnic cleansing what would that make others think? It would make them think holocaust and kosovo. From what I remember there were mass graves in both....


And yes, I just read that article. I have always thought that Gaza and West Bank should have been given back after the war. They should have given back that land just like they gave back Egypt its land. What other countries received their land back from Israel?

And then Sharon withdrew from Gaza and then started a withdraw from West Bank. Then Hamas started lunching rockets from the evacuated areas in Gaza...


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Edited by downforpot (08/28/06 09:50 PM)

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006503 - 08/28/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The Israeli's did own a LOT of land legally by purchase in Palestine. If they used this to create a state that would be cool. I wonder how the UN ever justified taking the extra land to make an Israeli state.... has this ever been done before by the UN?

Althought the Ottoman empire *DID* end up on the losing side of WWI and they were greedy conquerers. One could make the argument that those under Ottoman rule can dish out murderous expansion of empire, but they can't seem to take it.

Just playing devil's advocate though.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006510 - 08/28/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I use the common definition of ethnic cleansing which includes, but is not limited to, expulsion, systematic political and economic disenfranchisement, and the refusal of basic human rights. Your obscure definition is narrowly limited to murder. Genocide is one type of ethnic cleansing. And never did I say that Israel has committed genocide. In fact, I have said on these the forums that they have not.

Ethnic cleansing is just that - removing unwanted ethnicities from a vacinity or culture by however means necessary.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006515 - 08/28/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
The Israeli's did own a LOT of land legally by purchase in Palestine. If they used this to create a state that would be cool. I wonder how the UN ever justified taking the extra land to make an Israeli state.... has this ever been done before by the UN?

Althought the Ottoman empire *DID* end up on the losing side of WWI and they were greedy conquerers. One could make the argument that those under Ottoman rule can dish out murderous expansion of empire, but they can't seem to take it.

Just playing devil's advocate though.




Well the Israeli land was purchased from individual Ottoman landholders. The areas in dispute now are West Bank and Gaza which are being returned.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006522 - 08/28/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
I use the common definition of ethnic cleansing which includes, but is not limited to, expulsion, systematic political and economic disenfranchisement, and the refusal of basic human rights. Your obscure definition is narrowly limited to murder. Genocide is one type of ethnic cleansing. And never did I say that Israel has committed genocide. In fact, I have said on these the forums that they have not.

Ethnic cleansing is just that - removing unwanted ethnicities from a vacinity or culture by however means
necessary.




But the definition still encompasses mass murder.... So even if you label an expulsion of people as ethnic cleansing it still makes people think of mass murder that was similar in Kosovo and Germany.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006523 - 08/28/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You could say the Palestinians were guilty of the same in the 1920's when the LEGAL Zionist movement (of purchasing land) was getting big and many racist Arabs were spreading propoganda to get rid of those Jews that were there rightfully.

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006545 - 08/28/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ok. They were guilty of ethnic cleansing. Now, let's talk about today, not a century ago.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006552 - 08/28/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ethnic cleansing? Were Jews being killing in large numbers by the arabs during that time?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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InvisibleVvellum
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Posts: 10,920
Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006558 - 08/28/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

bi0 said:
I use the common definition of ethnic cleansing which includes, but is not limited to, expulsion, systematic political and economic disenfranchisement, and the refusal of basic human rights. Your obscure definition is narrowly limited to murder. Genocide is one type of ethnic cleansing. And never did I say that Israel has committed genocide. In fact, I have said on these the forums that they have not.

Ethnic cleansing is just that - removing unwanted ethnicities from a vacinity or culture by however means
necessary.




But the definition still encompasses mass murder.... So even if you label an expulsion of people as ethnic cleansing it still makes people think of mass murder that was similar in Kosovo and Germany.




Ethnic cleansing includes but is not limited to mass murder. Should I draw a Ven diagram for you?

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: downforpot]
    #6006559 - 08/28/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hard to tell the scale...

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006569 - 08/28/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Once TV and the media became global ... the israeli's missed their chance at pushing the palestinians out... they should have done it oh.. say.. back when we were locating the native americans here

Then the Arabs would all be running casinos in Jordan.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006574 - 08/28/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

bi0 said:
I use the common definition of ethnic cleansing which includes, but is not limited to, expulsion, systematic political and economic disenfranchisement, and the refusal of basic human rights. Your obscure definition is narrowly limited to murder. Genocide is one type of ethnic cleansing. And never did I say that Israel has committed genocide. In fact, I have said on these the forums that they have not.

Ethnic cleansing is just that - removing unwanted ethnicities from a vacinity or culture by however means
necessary.




But the definition still encompasses mass murder.... So even if you label an expulsion of people as ethnic cleansing it still makes people think of mass murder that was similar in Kosovo and Germany.




Ethnic cleansing includes but is not limited to mass murder. Should I draw a Ven diagram for you?




Exactly, it includes.... Therefore a different term should be used because people associate the term with mass murder.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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InvisibleVvellum
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006579 - 08/28/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, all that pesky information keeps people out of the dark. Fuck knowledge, dude.

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: Vvellum]
    #6006586 - 08/28/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder what would happen in the present it all the native americans started revolting.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Dont worry about Chavez........????? [Re: BrAiN]
    #6006599 - 08/28/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
I wonder what would happen in the present it all the native americans started revolting.




Uhh, the revolt would be stopped. I'm sure some Americans would be sympathetic though but I donno if they would move back to their ancestors' countries.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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