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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby] * 1
    #5993596 - 08/24/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I can't stand reading this thread anymore. This guy needs to google up "long term effects of child sexual abuse" and do some reading before he ruins some kids life, if he hasn't already. :nonono:


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: dishonesty and evil is common [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5993623 - 08/24/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"If so, then according to the evidence, the only solution is to immediately de-tabooify child sexuality, thus reducing/eliminating pedophilia.

Encourage your kids to exploratory sex today!

This religious hatred of physical pleasure is worse then crazy/ignorant. It's stupid."

This sounds very much like a victim of sexual abuse turned potential or actual victimizer.




Of which I am neither.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Clearly these kinds of statements would not proceed from a parent, certainly not a normal parent. Exploration of one's own body is normal, exploration of sexual intercourse and its variants before moral, emotional, cognitive and socio-cultural developments are matured is destructive of youth.




Once again, the evidence for which is against you. Read the damned links.


Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"Religious hatred" is an oxymoron, and the fact that religious explanations given as justification for hatred exists, it is too is a clearly pathological condition.




Incorrect. I've seen much hatred stem directly from religion. If you want to argue that the religion was perverted from it's original or "pure" form, you can, but it's still a religion, one way or the other.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"Religious hatred of physical pleasure" usually entails a form of sexual masochism cast in a mindset that is medieval in its exaggeration of an ascetic ideal. However, these words which appear to condemn religious models of self-control over the instinctual life actually say something else. These words minimalize and marginalize human sexuality, reducing the phenomenon to mere physical sensations of pleasure.




Maybe. But what if that's what it is? Ever consider being wrong? Then you're building it up to be something that it's not. You can assign whatever importance you want to anything, that doesn't make it right.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Since atheism is an aberration belonging to modernity,




This is simply a falsity.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
an atheistic position fails to understand the breadth and depth of the human condition.




Also a falsity. You should start supporting your claims.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Human sexuality from time immemorial has been viewed as having a legitimate place within certain cultural contexts, but deeper still has been its place in the domain of 'the sacred.'




Maybe. And since time immemorial, the sun has been viewed as a god.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Without a working understanding of 'the sacred' versus 'the profane,' an individual is grossly handicapped in any real understanding of the human condition.




From where did you get the idea that I have no notion of sacred or profane? Consciousness is sacred. Intelligence is sacred. Senseless slaughter of aforementioned consciousness is profane.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Such a person will relate to others with a shallowness of character and values such that any other human being with even a moderate view to spirituality will avoid any attempt at a deep relationship for the simple fact that the atheist admits of no depth (or height, whichever metaphor is chosen)!




You don't know many atheists, do you? I could say the exact thing about the deeply religious, and I'd be sometimes correct, sometimes wrong.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The ethics and moral of the professing atheist likewise have serious limitations and may rest upon mere cultural and moral relativism. Not someone I would want to (figuratively) turn my back to, or trust with any degree of depth. These mores would not be welcome around any parents and especially not around their children.




Common misconception, often refuted, and shows nothing more then a lack of knowledge about non-theistic philosophy.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sexual taboos are an important part of normal human sexual development. They have purely biological values in the avoidance of incest and genetic damage at a foundational level, but such taboos also form the basis of civilization and human societies from the tribal organization and upward in complexity.




I've no disagreement with close relations not having kids together, but sexual taboos don't form any sort of rational basis for any civilization. Look at how much they've changed in the past few hundred years!

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Questioning sexual taboos are an immediate red flag to anyone trained in psychoanalytic forms of psychotherapy. That says a great deal about the person professing such ideas - it is never just academic.




Like most of what you just said, you have nothing to back it up. Admittedly, I'm not trained in psychoanalytic forms of psychotherapy, but that's generally not the most scientific field of research.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993628 - 08/24/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
I can't stand reading this thread anymore. This guy needs to google up "long term effects of child sexual abuse" and do some reading before he ruins some kids life, if he hasn't already. :nonono:




I'm not arguing against child abuse. I'm arguing against the notion that all sex with children is child abuse.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993629 - 08/24/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.




You had sex as a 5 year old? (I think I've passed my credibility horizon.)




It's really not that uncommon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993639 - 08/24/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993644 - 08/24/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.




You had sex as a 5 year old? (I think I've passed my credibility horizon.)




It's really not that uncommon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports





Yeah but kids fooling around isn't pedophilia.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993650 - 08/24/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Yeah but kids fooling around isn't pedophilia.




Yes, and? To which comment was this directed towards?


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5993651 - 08/24/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

beating dead (really dead) horses.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993656 - 08/24/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Is Xanthes trolling us?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993663 - 08/24/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Probably...we are all trolls...it is just that this subject has been beat half to death 50,000 times on The Shroomery...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993666 - 08/24/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
beating dead (really dead) horses.




Mayhap. But this both sharpens my debating skills (not much, considering my opposition's arguments), is fun, and will hopefully make someone think a bit.

Edit: Besides, most of the posts in P+S are too much like those in MR+P for me. I prefer lively debate which it is at least possible (hypothetically, at least) for both sides to back up their arguments.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 07:15 PM)

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993672 - 08/24/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Is Xanthes trolling us?




Nope. I was never good at playing devil's advocate.

If I was, would I be doing a good job?  :grin:
I don't think I've ever been called a troll before...


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 07:12 PM)

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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993691 - 08/24/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Probably...we are all trolls...it is just that this subject has been beat half to death 50,000 times on The Shroomery...




So has everything else.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993692 - 08/24/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.




This is a slippery slope which obviously puts the child on a cliff's edge, literally on a fence with the potential of immense harm on the other end should she fall. Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineBooby
Agent Mulder
 User Gallery
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993703 - 08/24/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.




Life has potential for harm so life is a form of abuse.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993714 - 08/24/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.




This is a slippery slope which obviously puts the child on a cliff's edge, literally on a fence with the potential of immense harm on the other end should she fall. Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.




There is immense potential for harm in a child being alive. To minimize such harm, one should keep said child under supervision at all times, never let them handle sharp things, keep them away from every possible danger, every threat.

I don't think that a child having sex puts that child at the level of danger you think it does. Once again, see all my other posts.

Or rather, I'll rehash: People are mostly good, pedophilia doesn't change that. People mostly don't want to harm children: Pedophilia doesn't change that. Such sex doesn't have to be harmful.

(Wow that's a lot of quotes.)


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas] * 1
    #5993736 - 08/24/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

an adult having sex with a child is indeed always child abuse.

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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas] * 1
    #5993748 - 08/24/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993754 - 08/24/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
an adult having sex with a child is indeed always child abuse.




Read the goddamn posts, please! There are links I've posted! They contain useful information!

Your statement is composed of circular logic. An adult having sex with a child is child abuse. Why? Because it harms children. How so? It's child abuse.

It's not always child abuse. In fact, I'll wager that it's usually not child abuse. I'll go even further to say (as I already have) that child abuse could be better prevented by the de-stigmatizing of pedophilia.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993760 - 08/24/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.




Look at the statistics yourself. Most contact is not abuse. There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.

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