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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Suggested jar filter method??
#5924338 - 08/02/06 03:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've nocked up at least 30 BRF and verm cakes (PF max fruit style) that look exactly like all other pics i've seen but all of them have had 1 similar problem (to differing extent).
The top verm layer always shrinks, within a week or two it is no longer a dry seal over the growing environment below. I've tried packing the top down and adding more verm to the top dry layer in an attempt to stop this (despite reading that packing down in any way will slow growth) but it hasn't helped whatsoever.
I realise it might not be the top verm layer shrinking, what i really mean is that the contents decreases in volume to the extent that if you rotate the jars the top verm shifts around and always leaves an area below uncovered.
I'm having a consistent prob with wet-spot (which i guess is not suprising) and wondering if anyone can recommend a different filter method or if you've experienced a similar prob how to fix it.
I'm from australia and have never heard of tyvek, is it glass-wool or something similar? where would you usually find it for sale?
would a coffee filter below the lid be adequate? i was planning on trying this but thought the puncture holes made by inoculation may pose a problem.
thanks for any advice, sorry if this is answered elsewhere.
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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ThumpaCap
Beer Taster
Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 568
Loc: Shroomwhere Out There
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5924441 - 08/02/06 05:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Look into my heyes !!
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5924449 - 08/02/06 05:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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>I'm having a consistent prob with wet-spot
This, and the overly wet vermiculite layer(which is always somewhat moist after sterilizing) is probably due too much water in the substrate.
Use less water in the substrate.
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: Anno]
#5924562 - 08/02/06 06:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is another reason why the verm layer doesn't really do all that much for you. The verm layer certainly helps somewhat, if you don't have good sterile technique in the first place, but it's mostly a placebo. If it's even slightly damp contams can and will germinate on it. They just don't get large enough to see until they hit the nutritious substrate.
-FF
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: Anno]
#5924581 - 08/02/06 06:44 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anno said:
This, and the overly wet vermiculite layer(which is always somewhat moist after sterilizing) is probably due too much water in the substrate.
Use less water in the substrate.
thanks, i did mean to mention that in my latest attempt i used less water in the substrate but it had little effect at solving the problem. Perhaps they were still too wet.
anyone had any experience using coffee filters or significant other?
cheers for the replies
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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thenewguy05
The Mushroom Man
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2,123
Loc: My Underground Layer
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5924640 - 08/02/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
soma_seeker said: I've tried packing the top down and adding more verm to the top dry layer in an attempt to stop this (despite reading that packing down in any way will slow growth) but it hasn't helped whatsoever.
if you read that it is bad how did you think it was going to help??!!??
>I realise it might not be the top verm layer shrinking, what i really mean is that the contents decreases in volume to the extent that if you rotate the jars the top verm shifts around and always leaves an area below uncovered.
sounds like everything WAS going ok. the vermiculite layer should be about 1/2 inch layer on the top. sometimes you will have a little vermiculite shaking around but you shouldn't be shaking or moving the jars in this manner to begin with. also the contents are shrinking and compacting because the mycelium has to eat and when it does everything comes together and forms a solid mass. i see this as nothing out of the usuall.
>I'm having a consistent prob with wet-spot (which i guess is not suprising) and wondering if anyone can recommend a different filter method or if you've experienced a similar prob how to fix it.
wetspot is from your mixture. correct your moisture content exactly to the pf tek and cover you jars with tin foil while boiling to make sure your moisture in the pot doesn't end up in the jars.
>I'm from australia and have never heard of tyvek, is it glass-wool or something similar? where would you usually find it for sale?
tyvek is like what you use for wraping a home for protection against the weather. it is a plastic sheet the has very small pores to allow for gas exchange. it can get wet because it looks like paper but is really a plastic.
>would a coffee filter below the lid be adequate? i was planning on trying this but thought the puncture holes made by inoculation may pose a problem.
i have seen people use coffee filters rubberbanded to the outside of the lid, never on the inside. honestly you should need one but if you do use one... place it on the outside. the vermiculite doesn't contain any nutrients so it is a good filter as is. rolling the vermiculite around in the jar might introduce anything the has landed on the non-nutritious layer and mix down into your pf cake mix and contaminate it.
thanks for any advice, sorry if this is answered elsewhere.
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: thenewguy05]
#5926398 - 08/02/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
thenewguy05 said:
Quote:
soma_seeker said: I've tried packing the top down and adding more verm to the top dry layer in an attempt to stop this (despite reading that packing down in any way will slow growth) but it hasn't helped whatsoever.
if you read that it is bad how did you think it was going to help??!!??
>I realise it might not be the top verm layer shrinking, what i really mean is that the contents decreases in volume to the extent that if you rotate the jars the top verm shifts around and always leaves an area below uncovered.
sounds like everything WAS going ok. the vermiculite layer should be about 1/2 inch layer on the top. sometimes you will have a little vermiculite shaking around but you shouldn't be shaking or moving the jars in this manner to begin with. also the contents are shrinking and compacting because the mycelium has to eat and when it does everything comes together and forms a solid mass. i see this as nothing out of the usuall.
>I'm having a consistent prob with wet-spot (which i guess is not suprising) and wondering if anyone can recommend a different filter method or if you've experienced a similar prob how to fix it.
wetspot is from your mixture. correct your moisture content exactly to the pf tek and cover you jars with tin foil while boiling to make sure your moisture in the pot doesn't end up in the jars.
I figured it was obvious why i was packing the substrate down. it was a desperate attempt to add more volume to the jars and hence reduce the effect of the shrinking of the substrate. Its not as if i considered it to be an ideal thing to do.
I have been sticking to the PF tek formula, even using less water, and have been covering the jars with foil when boiling.
I think i'll try and source some tyvek and give that a try. Thanks for the help.
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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treeyei
spork
Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 124
Loc: out
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5939886 - 08/07/06 04:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe you could use polyfil instead of tyvec? Polyfil can likely be found at like a Spotlight fabric store...the stuff they use to fill pillows. There's one near me in Sydney and I'm going to be checking it out this week to get some. I haven't been able to find any tyvec. Please let me know if you do via PM or whatever? (I'll do the same for you) Thanks!
-------------------- Everything I post (or have posted) on this website is fictional, even this sentence.
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: treeyei]
#5941488 - 08/07/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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g'day treeyei,
i've also been unable to find any tyvek, even in international envelopes (they cost a fortune anyway).
one thing i thought i might be able to find is those one piece white overall/jumpsuits that zip up on the front and have a hood. Apparently they are made of tyvek. Not sure where you could buy a single one of those though...
how do you plan on using the polyfill? in addition to a dry verm layer on the top of it? do you think there would be a problem with it being too absorbent and sucking up moisture during sterilization?
cheers
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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treeyei
spork
Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 124
Loc: out
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5945176 - 08/08/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey soma_seeker, well shite I can't remember where I was reading that about using polyfil instead of tyvek. But anyway have you tried Bunnings for that jumpsuit thing? Sound interesting. I'll def be getting one if I can...a wholoe suit should last a while!
-------------------- Everything I post (or have posted) on this website is fictional, even this sentence.
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: treeyei]
#5946471 - 08/09/06 02:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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g'day
no i havent tried bunnings, there isn't one anywhere near me. went for a big trek to the closest one chasing verm when i started my grow only to find out they'd sold out...that suct.
but yeh i reckon they would be a good place to try.
i went to a costume party once where a few people wore them dressed as ecstasy tablets so they can't be too hard to come across.
let me know if u have any luck
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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treeyei
spork
Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 124
Loc: out
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5980931 - 08/20/06 05:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Everything I post (or have posted) on this website is fictional, even this sentence.
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treeyei
spork
Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 124
Loc: out
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: treeyei]
#5980933 - 08/20/06 05:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh wait, spoke too soon! Here we go mate. He's got 8 available it says... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DuPont-TYVEK-Barr...1QQcmdZViewItem
-------------------- Everything I post (or have posted) on this website is fictional, even this sentence.
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ghostofbmarley
booyakasha
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 179
Loc: author's mind
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: treeyei]
#5981031 - 08/20/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have heard other members finding sheets of tyvek on ebay... I'll try to go look for the link, but I remember in the picture it was a great big roll of the stuff. Not sure about S/H to Australia though
GL -ghost
-------------------- ~OM MANI PADME HUM~
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shroomerite
Apprentice
Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 513
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I dont know about Aussy but here in the US when we build houses after framing them they are wrapped in tyvek then you put on the siding. So ask a contractor or go to like a lowes or home depot equivalent in your area.
Also, since you are putting so much time and effort into PF cakes, you should switch to WBS. Its not that much harder, unless you dont have a pressure cooker.
-------------------- "For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof." RR
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faceyneck
Legitimate Philosopher
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: shroomerite]
#5981157 - 08/20/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I bought a sheet of tyvek that is used on houses and it was water proof. Fortunately, I was buying it for a camping tarp, and not for mushroom cultivation. If you shop around you can find plain and simple tyvek sheets. I bought mine from an ebay vendor for a couple US dollars per 1'X 7' sheet. I think I bought 3', and I have more than enough, especially since I've found it to be reusable. I've only used about 1 square foot over the past 3 months, and I won't need to use any more until I buy more jars. I'd send some to you but it would be more expensive for me to send it to you than for you to buy it from someone in Australia, and it would take four to six weeks.
Also: my PF cakes shrink down up to as much as 25% of their original size. I don't see why you think this is a problem. In fact, I haven't ever grown a cake that didn't shrink significantly by the time I had to take it out of the jelly jar. And, of course, there is always a bunch of vermiculite rolling around at the top of the jars due to the extra space. It doesn't matter, though.
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit. My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. We give cultivation advice here. AMU Q & A - We're glad to help My Doggy Door Greenhouse! First Ever Shmuvbox Tek! Do Manure Right!
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: faceyneck]
#5985002 - 08/21/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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cheers for the link treeyei and the advice FN
I knocked up another batch last week w'out tyvek, but if these dont work i'll get myself one of those suits.
-------------------- Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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Akamatsu
Seeker
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Re: Suggested jar filter method?? [Re: soma_seeker]
#5988608 - 08/23/06 02:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's possible that a high incubation temperature is causing these problems with bacterial contamination. It could also be responsible for the shrinking vermiculite layer by causing your substrate to dry out. What temperature are you incubating at, and how accurate is your thermometer?
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