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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995492 - 08/25/06 12:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

being attracted to a 15 year old is not pedophilia unless he or she is very behind in sexual development.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995513 - 08/25/06 12:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I used the word pedophile there because whether "technically" correct or not I feel the majority of society would view this male teacher that way. Yet, they view the female teacher in similar circumstances entirely differently. The question is are women truly loving who have kind willing caring sex with young men and are men truly pigs who abuse and rape and victimize young girls the way society portrays it?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995532 - 08/25/06 12:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

here is a very thought provoking article about sex, youth, law, and western culture: http://www.thecanadiangeek.ca/archives/in-defense-of-the-pedophile

when i use the word "pedophile" i am using it in the proper sense and referring to someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. sexual attraction to adolescents is ephebophilia.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995576 - 08/25/06 12:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

if not to ensure procreation, for what other reason(s) do you think we've evolved a sex drive?



I certainly won't deny that procreation is the primary biological function of sex, but that alone doesn't explain the sex drive of humans. For example, women remain sexually active long after menopause. In this case, it is believed that sex serves to reinforce bonds between partners, thus allowing children a better chance of surviving to adulthood. Masturbation also serves a biological function, as it cleanses the body of old, lazy sperm, and makes way for new, healthy sperm. Even oral sex is believed to serve a biological function, as it allows someone to subconsciously sense if their partner has recently been sleeping with anyone else(at close range, one can pick up on others' pheromones). Given all this, it should not be too much of a leap to assume that homosexuality also serves a biological function.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995579 - 08/25/06 12:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting article. The guy with a naked photo of his young son in danger of being charged with child pornography is typical of the hysteria we have reached with regard to child abuse, even where there is none as in that case.

Some nights practically every story on the local news is related to sex offenders and related cases whether national or local, teachers caught with child porn, etc. It's no wonder people are hysterical when they are fed hysteria every day. I guess car wrecks and murders are out of vogue...


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995662 - 08/25/06 01:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The dynamics of an older female having a sexual experience with a young boy versus the other way around is quite a bit, I met the kid who had sex with Mary Kay Letourneau, he was 13 and she was 36, she was in a previous marriage, but actually Villi made the first move, at the age of 13 he was having sexual fantasies about women.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: capliberty]
    #5995670 - 08/25/06 01:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I can't imagine having that much sex at that young of age with an older women, I also heard about other kids who went to the same school trying to hookup with her, for some reason they knew it was possible with her, I never felt it possible to have sex with any of my older teachers, and their were a few that I would liked to


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5995746 - 08/25/06 01:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

it's only healthy among perhaps one-billionth of the population, or generously 99.999% of cases lead to dysfunctions

I think at the core of Xanthas' argument is that if society, and parents in particular, took these things in stride rather than freak out about them, far fewer of those relationships would be harmful.

In other words, it's the stigma that's responsible for much of the harm.

This used to be true for gay people before gay relationships became widely accepted. Suicide rates among gay kids was much higher than the general kid population. The cause was societal attitudes not gay tendencies.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5995774 - 08/25/06 01:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Given all this, it should not be too much of a leap to assume that homosexuality also serves a biological function.

any suggestions as to how?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995781 - 08/25/06 01:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

if not to ensure procreation, for what other reason(s) do you think we've evolved a sex drive?

It could be, at least in part, for the same reason that we've evolved an appreciation for art. Art, after all, serves no biological purpose. It's just fun.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995783 - 08/25/06 01:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
Given all this, it should not be too much of a leap to assume that homosexuality also serves a biological function.

any suggestions as to how?



Well, population control would be the most obvious.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: capliberty]
    #5996090 - 08/25/06 03:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

response to

Poster: capliberty
Subject: Re: why is paedophilia so common?

The dynamics of an older female having a sexual experience with a young boy versus the other way around is quite a bit, I met the kid who had sex with Mary Kay Letourneau, he was 13 and she was 36, she was in a previous marriage, but actually Villi made the first move, at the age of 13 he was having sexual fantasies about women.






To which I reply are there two sets of laws for the differing dynamics or just two different sets of enforcement and differing views by society?

See what I mean, it's always the guys fault. "He was having sexual fantasies about women". Well I guess it he fucks his teacher after school and she lets him then it's OK. Hmm...let's review.

Who is the adult in this situation? The one getting pregnant because of not using protection? The one completely abusing any position of trust as a teacher and mother of four kids of her own and married to boot?

Like I said earlier, it is a full double standard.

Maybe if you explain the differing dynamics of a female teacher fucking her student versus a male teacher fucking his two year older student we can understand more clearly what you mean.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Diploid]
    #5996231 - 08/25/06 04:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
it's only healthy among perhaps one-billionth of the population, or generously 99.999% of cases lead to dysfunctions

I think at the core of Xanthas' argument is that if society, and parents in particular, took these things in stride rather than freak out about them, far fewer of those relationships would be harmful.

In other words, it's the stigma that's responsible for much of the harm.

This used to be true for gay people before gay relationships became widely accepted. Suicide rates among gay kids was much higher than the general kid population. The cause was societal attitudes not gay tendencies.




Exactly right.


I think I'll try and summarize everything I've said, and post no more (this is getting tiring, I've got other stuff to do) unless someone says something truly original/asks a question I think I can be of use in answering.

Child abuse is bad.
Adult-child sex is not always harmful, when it is, it's usually a result of child-abuse.
Most pedophiles are not child-abusers.
Many child-abusers are not pedophiles.
The mass majority of negative non-abusive relations twixt the generations is caused by societal freaking out.
Far less children would be harmed if such relationships were not subject to said freaking-out, due to:
The only real negatives of sex (discounting disease/unwanted pregnancy, those are entirely different issues) are created by society, based on the evidence that:
Non-traumatic childhood sexual encounters don't appear to harm a child's psycho-sexual development. Thus:
Children, in general, would be less harmed, as a whole, if pedophilia was de-stigmatized.

And:

Touting concepts like the sacredness of whatever (womanhood, sex, life, etc.) as evidence for your point won't work if your fundamental postulates are in conflict with those of whomever you're debating with, such as:

I myself base my morality on the concept that I would not care to live my life if I had no consciousness with which to appreciate it, and that if some supernatural power wanted people to know something, it wouldn't only make itself possible to know for those that already believe. If there was a divine "correct" morality, wouldn't all humans know it?

Thus, life has no meaning or purpose other then to serve consciousness.

You still haven't responded, telepylus, to one of my previous comments. Why are you debating? You claim to have a knowledge, and one that really cannot be transfered. I must receive a revelation to believe what you do, as it is not based on any sort of reason or empiricism, but faith. Since I don't believe what you do, I must not understand, because you have divine knowledge.

This leaves no ability for you to accept possible wrongness, and no possibility to transfer your knowledge. What, then, is the point of even speaking?


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Diploid]
    #5996637 - 08/25/06 06:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It could be, at least in part, for the same reason that we've evolved an appreciation for art. Art, after all, serves no biological purpose. It's just fun.

a sex drive serves a very important biological purpose. do i really have to explain what it is and why evolution would select for individuals with a desire to mate with the opposite sex over individuals that don't?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5996641 - 08/25/06 06:34 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Well, population control would be the most obvious.

natural selection selects against traits that present obstacles to reproduction.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5996676 - 08/25/06 06:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

a sex drive serves a very important biological purpose.

You keep missing the point.

No one is arguing that the primary purpose of sex is not reproduction. What you're missing is that it likely is more complicated than just reproduction.

It brings people closer. Why else would someone want to selflessly give their mate pleasure rather than just have the orgasm and go watch TV? Why do it with contraceptives? Why surround it with sexy clothing and romance?

Sex, like most human activities, isn't a simplistic one-purpose thing.

natural selection selects against traits that present obstacles to reproduction.

This is not so.

Nature has given rise to many examples of homosexuality in animals. Were there no evolutionary purpose to it, it would not have have arisen. Look up Bonobos apes for one of several thousand examples zoologists have discovered.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinewilshire
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Posts: 2,421
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5996682 - 08/25/06 06:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

In other words, it's the stigma that's responsible for much of the harm.

This used to be true for gay people before gay relationships became widely accepted. Suicide rates among gay kids was much higher than the general kid population. The cause was societal attitudes not gay tendencies.


if there wasn't a stigma associated with a 43 year old man having sex with a 7 year old boy, it would be much less harmful to the little boy? it's the stigma, not the act, that really harms him?


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5996700 - 08/25/06 06:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

just my observation, but gay relationships being widely accepted has caused much more harm to our planet than when it was taboo.

also, Art does serve a biological purpose.


Edited by Telepylus (08/25/06 06:56 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5996709 - 08/25/06 06:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

if there wasn't a stigma associated with a 43 year old man having sex with a 7 year old boy, it would be much less harmful to the little boy? it's the stigma, not the act, that really harms him?

In the lower animals, were an adult animal to have sex with a willing child animal, barring some physical damage, the child animal would go on his way unharmed. This is because animals other than humans see sex as no different an activity than play. An adult animal playing with a child animal is harmless, so long as there is no physical harm done and so long as there is no societal stigma to traumatize the child.

Humans are animals. We just place a disproportionate, religion-based, importance on sex compared to other types of play.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Diploid]
    #5996718 - 08/25/06 06:53 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

For the record, before you guys start craping on me, I denounce pedophilia, but for different reasons than most people do. I think, in current society, it is very damaging to the child. But I also think that, were current society's taboos based in rationality rather than religion, that harm would be non-existent.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
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