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Offlinesyntech
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A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt
    #5974806 - 08/17/06 11:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This is just another reminder to those who pick and eat wild mushrooms. Even to those who are experienced.

Me and a few other friends of mine who like to hit the feilds have picked cubensis many times, and we always checked everything for purple spore remnants and bluing. If ever we were in doubt even though it looked like a cube, we throw it out.

Well, me and a friend picked a bunch of cubes this past week in our favorite two feilds. We got a good harvest, ate some that night, and all was fine. I went through all of my mushrooms and selected all the ones with purple spore residues and thought I had only cubes.

A few nights later, me and a friend ate a good sized pile a peice, and I had one more dose left. Another friend called, his aunt was the person who showed me one of the feilds, and he said he wanted to eat some mushrooms so I told him to come on over and I'll hook him up with my last pile. So he came over and ate, we chilled for a few hours and tripped and played darts (don't worry they were plastic hehe) and had a good time. Then everyone went home.

Well, when my friend got back to his house, he said he was tripping nuts having a good ass trip watching Pee-Wees playhouse on adult swim. Then he said next thing he knew his legs got stiff and it felt like his muscles were locking up. Then he puked on himself, and somehow managed to make it into his grandparents room and told them he had eaten some mushrooms, then proceeded to collapse and have seizures. He went to the hospital, they pumped his stomach out with charcoal and then tested his blood to find traces of strycnine and other mushroom related toxins. They said his liver had gotten attacked by the poisons and almost shut down on him, he was very close to needing a liver transplant. He said the hospital claimed that psilocybe mushrooms can contain strychnine mainly concentrated in the stems and to only eat the caps. Is that true? I always consume the whole shroom stem and cap and never had a problem. The hospital did say that there was probably a bad one in there with the others cause the fact that his liver had gotten attacked. They explained how within the first few hours you'll get sick and then get better thinking everything is alright until your liver shuts down about 12 hours later.

Luckily nobody including my friend is mad at me, shit his family showed me the feilds to go to picking, and they all understand it was just an accident. Plus my friend made it clear to everybody that he is grown and decided to take the mushrooms himself, they weren't forced or anything which is the truth. I talked to my friend tonight and he's going to be ok, but he now has permanent liver damage. Even he said he didn't understand how it could have happened because he knows I always check my mushrooms carefully, hell he went through them himself when he ate then and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. We were speculating on how it could have happend and I was thinking maybe I accidently picked a small gallerina or something that became laden with purple spore residue while in the bag with the others therefore it passed inspection.

So please be carefull, and if you want to trip, I strongly suggest either buying some or growing them yourself and to abstain from picking. I also think we need to make a better identification guide and broaden the information on poisoness ones for those who do still pick. I especially think it important to include many pictures of different types of active mushrooms with poisoness ones growing mixed in, like say gallerina's and cubes cause they look similar, to help better train the novice picker.

Anyways, my friend could have died and it would have been on my conscience. So PLEASE print every mushroom no matter how big or small or how many you have if your gonna pick em. As for me it's back to jars and rice, no more picking for me it's just too risky.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: syntech]
    #5974882 - 08/18/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The mushroom toxins (amatoxins) that cause liver damage don't cause noticeable symptoms for at least 6 hours and generally not until after 24 hours. The fact that your friend got sick while he was still tripping suggests a far less dangerous gastrointestinal irritant which causes sickness in 20 minutes to 4 hours. Nausea, panic and limb paralysis are common side effects of psilocybin mushrooms.

I suspect that your friend had a bad reaction (perhaps allergic) to normal psilocybe mushrooms or a few of the mushrooms were spoiled (food poisoning) or a common green spored lepiota got into the mix. Psilocybe mushrooms do not contain strychnine and I doubt the hospital suggested eating any mushrooms, let alone just to eat the caps.

All the talk about needing a liver transplant was just scare tactics, since something as serious as (almost) liver failure isn't something you quickly recover from.


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Offlinesyntech
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Workman]
    #5975022 - 08/18/06 01:38 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Now see thats what I was thinking at first. Cause I have seen people mainly girls collapse and seize before off of grown psilocybe mushrooms (so theres no chance of poisoness ones), only to get up two minutes later like what the fuck and carry on as usuall. My friend who went to the hospital is the type that can eat like three good sized shrooms and get off, and that night he ate what we eat, which is a pile of at least 4-5 good ones with many smaller ones adding up to at least 10-13 mushrooms. Plus I myself have never got sick and puked, but I have had one totally mind blowing experience where my muscles seized up and I got literally frozen and for a split second thought maybe I had poisoned myself. But it didn't last long as I know high doses of psilocybin can cause the poisoning delusion. I had a good ass trip that night, laughed non-stop the whole time, walking through the woods at night with a friend walking in circles bumping in to each other laughing repeating "what the fuck are we doing" over and over. Good visuals too, the trees looked like they were moving and flowing in a breeze and the houses on the hill and down in the valley with their lights shining through the trees gave the illusion of being in the mountains. We sat on a bench and tryed to smoke some weed but laughed to hard to hit it and ended up spilling the weed all over ourselves and saying "fuck it" and continued on our journey. Thats the only time I ever experienced anything remotely close to feeling poisoned and it was only for a minute like I said, the rest was a fantastic grade A mind blower of a trip.

Anyways, the friend who thought he was poisoned is not one to be taking drugs anyway as this is not the first time he ended up in the hospital over drugs. There was on time he did a little bit of meth and freaked out and thought he had a heart-attack and went to the hospital, turns out he had just worked himself up into one hellacious anxiety attack. So no more mushrooms for him.

But still, lepiota, gallerina, or just too many cubes, I still want everyone to use this as a word of caution cause mushrooms really aren't anything to be played with, so still I say BE CAREFULL!


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: syntech]
    #5975157 - 08/18/06 04:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah its a funny one this one. It could have been just an adverse reaction to Psilocybes as Workman suggests or it could have actually been some sort of poisoning.
As an example, Stropharia aurantiaca isnt regarded as poisonous, but in a group of mates that I knew who stupidly got these mixed up with the local woodloving Psilocybe, it presented an hour after consumption with excessive diaherra and vomitting. Two of the three rode it out and had no further symptoms, the third went to hospital and was told that 'most mushrooms will kill you and that your liver and kidneys were nearly shutdown.'
Funny thing was his urine never changed colour and after the initial gastointestinal upset he had no other symptoms, but they made him feel like a low life.


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5975236 - 08/18/06 05:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

awww man....that sucks. i havnt had any luck in finding any, but ill be sure check up about that chemical you mentioned....


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[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

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Offlinexmush
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: nobhdy]
    #5975368 - 08/18/06 08:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to hear about your friend's reaction. Strychnine does not generally cause liver toxicity, although it is metabolized by the liver (and kidneys). Strychnine also does not usually cause permanent damage (except for death which is pretty permanent). And as others stated, amatoxins take many hours before liver damage is evident. And once it is, you don't get to go home from the hospital for quite a long time. I think it is likely that the people at the hospital are familiar with the strychnine-laced LSD myth, and I believe there is also a case report where some sold mushrooms had strychnine in them as well (evidently the drug dealer believed the myth so thoroughly that he added strychnine to the LSD soaked shrooms he sold) - I can't find a reference on this though. Hospital types will say lots of shit to scare druggies from ever doing the drugs again, and it sounds like this could have happened here.

But who knows - there are unknown mushrooms and unknown toxins out there. Anything is possible in the mushroom game. Hope your friend fully recovers.


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Invisiblesrgtm1a
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: xmush]
    #5975431 - 08/18/06 09:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This is either a reaction to the mushrooms, or possibly eating a mushroom that was partially rotted and full of bacteria that caused him to get sick. I think it's more likely a rotten or dirty mushroom.

Add that to tripping, and you'll start to think all sorts of things. It's not uncommon for people to throw up while tripping, that is enough for someone fairly new to it to freak out and think they are poisoned.

Take what you hear at the hospital with a grain of salt. Once they see a young guy who is sick from eating mushrooms....they will say anything to scare the hell out of him from doing it again. Even if he said he ate edibles and not actives they would say the same thing.

Hospital sees a young guy with "mushroom poisoning", only one thing comes to their mind....TRIPPP0RZ. Then comes the "you are lucky to be alive" speech.

It's odd though, I get similar affects when I eat portobella mushrooms. Every time I eat them, I get bad stomach cramps, and massive diarrhea, like 20-30 min after eating....only edible that does that to me though....odd. So it could very well be his reaction to the mushroom.


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Offlinesyntech
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: srgtm1a]
    #5975903 - 08/18/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to get my friend to read this thread cause he may not beleive me when I tell him he just had a bad reaction to psilocybin.

Anyways on a lighter note we have been finding a bunch of cubes down here since the past rain and all. The feilds still were producing even after a few days of 90 degree wheather. My friend went hunting yesterday and came back with some of the biggest wild cubes I have ever seen. One was 6 inches tall with a 3 inch cap. Thats pretty big. Most that we find only have like 1-1.5 inch caps and are only
about 4 inches tall.


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Offlinebobby87
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: syntech]
    #5976575 - 08/18/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hope is is OK man, shrooms do everyone diffent


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InvisibleHaightAshbury
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: bobby87]
    #5976667 - 08/18/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I always boil my shrooms before consumption (tea). Do you think that boiling shrooms will eliminate some of these risks; like bacteria and other things?


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Offlinexmush
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: HaightAshbury]
    #5976872 - 08/18/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Boiling will kill bacteria and inactivate most bacterial toxins.


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Offlinesyntech
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: xmush]
    #5977664 - 08/19/06 01:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Boiling will kill bacteria and inactivate most bacterial toxins.






Thats good to know.


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OfflineSweetLeaf
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: syntech]
    #5977677 - 08/19/06 01:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocin, psilocybin and baeocystin react poorly to heat and can be destroyed. If I recall correctly, it's unwise to heat your mushrooms for lose of "potency."

If you truly are worried about bacteria and feel the ole' fan isn't doing the trick, I suggest you goto your closest Home Depot and pick up a bag of E-Z Dry and set up a drying chamber.

Cracker dry mushrooms, and bacteria cannot live in the absence of water.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: SweetLeaf]
    #5977834 - 08/19/06 03:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

there seems to be a lot of talk about bacterial toxins and contaminated shrooms.
Can anyone actually refer me to one case of poisoining that was confirmed to be caused by the injestion of confirmed 'bacterially contaminated' shrooms.
I dont buy it.


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5977853 - 08/19/06 04:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Eating mushrooms would be just like picking fruit off a tree - a good wash in water is all that is needed. Rotting mushrooms are obviously a no-no, but I doubt that anything much can be gained from cooking them.

In this case did the hospital actually say what was wrong with the guy - ie his tests results showed ... etc?


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Offlinexmush
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5977974 - 08/19/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

While there might not be a reported case of a shroomer getting food poisoning from bacterial contamination, contaminated fruits and vegetables are the number 1 cause of food poisoning in the United States causing millions to tens of millions of cases of diarrheal disease each year. Have any of you ever had diarrhea for a couple of days in your life? Chances are it was 'food poisoning.' Fruits and Veggies are typically contaminated in the fields that they grow in from manure used as fertilizer, dirty storage facilities, and even purposeful contamination (there have been several well publicized outbreaks where dirty water is injected into fruits like cantelopes to increase their weight and thus their price). The literature is full of outbreaks such as E. Coli 0157:H7 outbreaks from unpasteurized fruit juice, Hepatitis A from dirty green onions, and on and on. Sources of these outbreaks are cow feces, wildlife feces, and in the case of the Hep A and green onions (which sickened thousands of people a few summers ago) human feces. E. Coli is present in all cow manure (probably in nearly all manure of everything) - and the dangerous O157:H7 strain is shockingly prevalent on most farms. It is naive to think that the mushrooms we pick from cow shit are not thoroughly contaminated with these and other micro-organisms. Washing helps, and our immune systems help too, especially considering that most shroomers are relatively healthy young adults at peak health. Drying the mushrooms will NOT kill all of the bacteria. Cooking or boiling will kill them, but you must balance that against the loss of potency from the destruction of psilocin.

Having said all that - I don't think that this explains the illness in Syntech's friend. Raw mushrooms, no matter how clean, give a lot of people digestive upset including vomiting.

Refs:
Ref 1
Ref 2
Ref 3
Ref 4 Mushies
Ref 5 E coli and Salmonella in mushrooms
Cantelopes


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OfflineCosmicFunGuy
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: xmush]
    #5978124 - 08/19/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Man the hospital is full of it. They will say ANYTHING to keep you from eating 'mushrooms'. I know that if i have any sort of pain, and i'm tripping the pain doesn't usually go away it often intensifies 100 fold sometimes and Its not pleasant. If there was anything foreign or the mushrooms had at all begin to rot he could have very easily experienced this sensation. Foods in our everyday life often get contaminated or rot and if eaten cause food poisoning, nearly 80 Million foodbourne illnesses in the US alone each year, thats almost a quarter of the population. Sometimes it's worse then others, Some people get hospitalized even. Psilocybe Cubensis DO NOT contain strychnine, although hospitals DO use scare tactics like these to people who 'use pot' or 'eats mushrooms'.

I was told by a doctor recently that if i didn't take my meds for 'bi-polar' i would die soon... THATS A LOAD OF CRAP!!! You do not die from experiencing a wide range of human emotion. I haven't had an overly 'manic' or 'depressed' state in years, all because I realized it's just natural human emotion, not a mental illness as the US government likes to insist. It's all just scare tactics. The way i see it goes like this...

The people in power want to stay in power -> They use msiinformation to make people think that psilocybe cubensis mushrooms can kill you, pot can kill you, conformity is good, take these pills you're sick. Well doctors are people too they are jsut as easily influenced as the next person so they buy into it. - > People become zombies believing what they're told - > doctor says mushrooms are bad

Don't let the man get you down, again it's probably just food poisoning or rotten mushrooms. OR MAYBE YOU POISONED YOUR FRIEND.... hmmm?

well i doubt that last one, hopefully your friend feels better and you can spread the good word to him that psilocybe Cubensis do not contain strychnine and more likely they were just trying to scare him....

FOR YOU FELLAS BOILING YOUR SHROOMS... THATS A SHAME!
it ruins the good stuff (psilocin, psilocybin) you should stop boiling them or find a new hobby...


--------------------


♫ ♪ In the garden of many fields, there is no me or you. There is no right or wrong. There is no up or down. There is no black or white. Everyone is the plow man. Everyone is the seed. Everyone harvests and everyone yields. In the garden of many fields, everyone is one with one love and one love is one with everyone. ♪ ♫
lyrics from: Transglobal Underground - Eyeway Souljah (from Psychic Karaoke)


Edited by tickettothemoon (08/19/06 10:42 AM)


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Offlinehooksbooks
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: CosmicFunGuy]
    #5979675 - 08/19/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you probably just miss ID'ed a specimin in your haste to "trip balls". maybe next time you hit the fields, you will be a little more precaustious and think things through a little more. I dont even touch a cube unless I'm sure its a cube, and i see dozens of other species on every hunt


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: hooksbooks]
    #5979775 - 08/19/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Xmush are you sure on those statistics? The majority of food poisonings come from food contaminated with raw meat - especially poultry. The cases of E. coli are much less common than the main two (Campylobacter and Salmonella).


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Offlinexmush
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Feelers]
    #5980191 - 08/19/06 10:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You're right about E. coli paling in comparison to Salmonella and Campylobacter cases. But raw meat is a risk because it is contaminated with fecal material at the slaughterhouse. Except for poultry where Salmonella can be found inside of the meat and eggs. But Salmonella outbreaks associated with alfalfa sprouts, bean sprouts, green onions and melons have sickened thousands worldwide. Salmonella and Campylobacter are found in the feces of many animals. Perhaps it was overstatement to say that veggies are our number 1 source of foodborne illness - I need to check that. However, contamination of veggies with the big three (salmonella, camp, and e. coli) is a huge problem in this country. And that contamination comes from feces - human and animal.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: xmush]
    #5980220 - 08/19/06 10:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

e. coli is rampant in cow dung.

walkerton ontario, 2000.

town becomes ill and some die after e. coli outbreak from drinking water contaminated from pasture runoff.

the culprit? cow dung. and an inadequate water treatment system.


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Offlinehooksbooks
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5981218 - 08/20/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

just gives us more reason to snip at the stem, and not put shrooms with turds at the base in our hunting bags. I would think that outdoor shrooms are less suseptable to being contaminated than cultivated specimines, simply because of adequete air exchange, more contam resistant substrate, etc. thi is just my theory, could anyone back me up on this?


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Offlinexmush
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Re: A Word of Warning for Those Who Hunt [Re: hooksbooks]
    #5981397 - 08/20/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well if you are not cultivating in manure, you don't have nearly as much to worry about so I think you are correct.


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