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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
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Anyone used ayahuasca... ?
    #5965477 - 08/15/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Has anyone used ayahuasca without purging?


If so, what was the recipe?


And even if you did puke but had an amazing experience, care to post your recipe/ method of preparation?


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5965665 - 08/15/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I hate to say UTFSE... but it's probably appropriate. Also just recommend scrounging through erowid reports. You'll learn the preparation often times, and whether or not they puked.

This is absolutely not meant in a negative way at all, but: If you're looking for ayahuasca without the puking perhaps it's not time to do ayahuasca yet? If you browse the ayahuasca.com forums, you'll see not discussion of how to avoid purging, but discussion on how well the purging went, and how it helped the experience.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineShroomFan
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5965772 - 08/15/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Purging I believe is part of the cleansing part of the whole "ritual"


here if you have time peruse through this

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html


--------------------
Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa
∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind
Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: ShroomFan]
    #5965812 - 08/15/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly, you beat me too it.

Purging is part of the experience, and a very intregal part at that. You have to embrace the experience as it is. If you don't want to purge, perhaps ayahuasca is not what you're really looking for.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5965826 - 08/15/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I reckon this fellas looking for a community response and a person or 2 he might be able to bouce convo back with.

The FAQ's and Experience reports are great but impersonal. Nothing is as assuring and helpfull as a short little response from an experienced person. Besides... something new might just come out of it.

.Wish I could tell you an answer myself, but I've never done Aya... Got it sitting in my drawer though!!! Would love to hear MORE dissusion on this topic.


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Multiplied


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Dickhead]
    #5965854 - 08/15/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ive read through tons of trip reports and seen ayahuasca documentaries. What I'm looking for here is first hand personal experience, as throy suggests...

I'm not necessarily looking for ayahuasca without puking, but I am not looking to be sitting by the toilet half my trip. I want something with a fairly light body load, at least for my first experience with this mixture. Later on, when I know what to expect and what I need, I may delve further into the harsh dark vine mixtures...


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InvisibleMagickow
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? *DELETED* [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5965879 - 08/15/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Magickow

Reason for deletion: .



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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Magickow]
    #5968938 - 08/16/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting...

I have read that Mimosa has a large amount of waxes and tannins that supposedly cause a good portion of the nausea/vomiting.

Psychotria viridis supposedly significantly less waxes and tannins yet you need more then twice the dosage as mimosa.

Chaliponga (Diplopterys Cabrerana) is supposedly stronger then the mimosa, 10grams = 15 grams mimosa. And there should be little nausea associated with it...


So I think Chaliponga is a good choice for the DMT part, now I need to choose the MAOI...

How about Syrian rue?


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Offlineezsefix
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5969001 - 08/16/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I drank a mimosa/syrian rue mix and kept it down the whole time. I regret not puking, as I think that would have given me a far cleaner, crisper trip. As it was I was very confused and uncomfortable the whole time.


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OfflineShroomFan
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: ezsefix]
    #5969126 - 08/16/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

can anyone confirm the above recipe THANKS


--------------------
Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa
∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind
Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: ShroomFan]
    #5969211 - 08/16/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

whenever i purged on huasca it was so intense the visuals devoured my whole being.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: 2859558484]
    #5969919 - 08/16/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Chaliponga (Diplopterys Cabrerana) is supposedly stronger then the mimosa, 10grams = 15 grams mimosa. And there should be little nausea associated with it... "

Interesting. I usually see the dosages quite a bit higher for chaliponga. 20-25 is what I usually see. Sometimes 15 for starters. Mimosa dosage advice would rarely ever go above 15g. 8-12 is often seen. Some even suggest 6 or less for a first timer, incase your stuff is strong.

I've never before seen or heard it suggested that chaliponga is stronger than mimosa.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5969952 - 08/16/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

read it on erowid. could find the link if you like...


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OfflineXelios
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5970107 - 08/16/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I tried to make the brew one time, but the solution that I put the root bark in wasn't acidic enough, so I got a really mild trip. Remember that.  :grin:


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5970139 - 08/16/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I disagree with alot of what has been said here...
------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to purge and happen to think it is necessary, use bulky plants like mimosa and caapi. If its potent and well made, you will likely puke.

If you think vomiting cleanses the system, you would be right. excessive amounts of alcohol can be cleansing as well.
It just so happens that vomiting on ayahuasca is so very common that people consider it to be a part of the trip. Traditionally, the drug is thought of as sacred across the boards, so go figure they even attach a positive beleif system that says that the purge cleanses the body as the drug cleanses the mind. That makes alot of sense.

However, there is nothing wrong with avoiding the purge. If you use only certain(less bulky) herbs, then you could have the trip of your life and not purge or feel sick. This can happen unintentionally.

A few things to know:
- When you dont purge the experience lasts longer, thats for sure.
- If you feel sick you will likely puke. Those who dont puke just never felt very sick(didnt get in the way of the experience)
- It doesnt make you trip harder when you purge.

What is purging good for:
- during an intense trip it can be so releiving that it changes the trip from night to day. (uncomfortable-"bad trip" to emotionally intense releif). Nobody likes to feel sick when tripping. It only makes these tools harder to work with...
- If you believe that you can cleans your mind and body because of the purge, after the purge the experience can be more healing. For one you are not sick anymore.
- often people feel like they are working out their issues to reach a more enlightened existance. When the body purges its self it is both a metaphore for the mind, as well as an opportunity for the trip to stop climbing. This makes the trip last for less time, and gives the user a chance to intigrate the intensity they were experiencing when feeling physically/mentally ill/out of their own control.
----------------------------------------------------------

As for recipies that dont involve the purge. Yes, you can make a form of brew that is very intense, lasts longer, and does not make you throw up. Those ayahuasca trips were always the best for me in my opinion.

You need to figure it out yourself how this is possible and how to make it. You can be damn sure it doesnt involve mimosa or caapi, go figure...

Key words for avoiding the purge would be: Psy. Viridis and Rue

There is nothing wrong with making a brew that doesnt make you sick and lasts longer.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5970229 - 08/16/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Like with mushrooms, a lot of the alkaloid ratio data on erowid does NOT represent the plant for the majority of the time, same with cacti. Perhaps it's just the stuff that is sold in the US, but the dosages I said for those substances is pretty representative of information on forums like this. In south america, one wouldn't even be using dry chaliponga leaves, though.

You might be able to find leaves strong enough to feel at a mimosa-like dose of 12-15g. But I would never dream of taking 25g (a chaliponga-like dose) of mimosa.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5970309 - 08/16/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no kidding.

I have had different caapi and viridis varieties and some are atleast twice as potent as others. The potency of viridis varies so greatly that I tend to test the waters before I really use a new batch.

Rue would seem to be one of those plants that does not vary too greatly in potency. That makes it very easy to use for a first experience.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5971271 - 08/16/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Koala Koolio said:
Like with mushrooms, a lot of the alkaloid ratio data on erowid does NOT represent the plant for the majority of the time, same with cacti. Perhaps it's just the stuff that is sold in the US, but the dosages I said for those substances is pretty representative of information on forums like this. In south america, one wouldn't even be using dry chaliponga leaves, though.

You might be able to find leaves strong enough to feel at a mimosa-like dose of 12-15g. But I would never dream of taking 25g (a chaliponga-like dose) of mimosa.




I tend to agree with you more then some report on erowid, simply because you seem to have personal experience in the matter and the latter seems impersonal. thats just what I read... may be true, may not, probably somewhere in between... but I'm interested in whats what in practice, not in theory.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: yageman]
    #5971287 - 08/16/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

yageman said:
I disagree with alot of what has been said here...
------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to purge and happen to think it is necessary, use bulky plants like mimosa and caapi. If its potent and well made, you will likely puke.

If you think vomiting cleanses the system, you would be right. excessive amounts of alcohol can be cleansing as well.
It just so happens that vomiting on ayahuasca is so very common that people consider it to be a part of the trip. Traditionally, the drug is thought of as sacred across the boards, so go figure they even attach a positive beleif system that says that the purge cleanses the body as the drug cleanses the mind. That makes alot of sense.

However, there is nothing wrong with avoiding the purge. If you use only certain(less bulky) herbs, then you could have the trip of your life and not purge or feel sick. This can happen unintentionally.

A few things to know:
- When you dont purge the experience lasts longer, thats for sure.
- If you feel sick you will likely puke. Those who dont puke just never felt very sick(didnt get in the way of the experience)
- It doesnt make you trip harder when you purge.

What is purging good for:
- during an intense trip it can be so releiving that it changes the trip from night to day. (uncomfortable-"bad trip" to emotionally intense releif). Nobody likes to feel sick when tripping. It only makes these tools harder to work with...
- If you believe that you can cleans your mind and body because of the purge, after the purge the experience can be more healing. For one you are not sick anymore.
- often people feel like they are working out their issues to reach a more enlightened existance. When the body purges its self it is both a metaphore for the mind, as well as an opportunity for the trip to stop climbing. This makes the trip last for less time, and gives the user a chance to intigrate the intensity they were experiencing when feeling physically/mentally ill/out of their own control.
----------------------------------------------------------

As for recipies that dont involve the purge. Yes, you can make a form of brew that is very intense, lasts longer, and does not make you throw up. Those ayahuasca trips were always the best for me in my opinion.

You need to figure it out yourself how this is possible and how to make it. You can be damn sure it doesnt involve mimosa or caapi, go figure...

Key words for avoiding the purge would be: Psy. Viridis and Rue

There is nothing wrong with making a brew that doesnt make you sick and lasts longer.




I *REALLY* appreciate your input.

So I was on the right tracks, as suspected.

What reason do you choose Psy. Viridis over Chaliponga ?


iamshamen sells 10X rue extract, would that be proper for this experience in your opinion?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5971597 - 08/16/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

uh... i'm glad i'm bad at making ayahuasca... several times i prepared it at 20-25g of mimosa and mostly just got light effects...
(i always threw it up within 40 minutes though).


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5971612 - 08/16/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

me and a buddy split 2 ounces of viridis and a pinch or two of syrian rue, got us trippin hard and good. (shrooms added in the brew)


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: 2859558484]
    #5971747 - 08/17/06 12:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

ha ha yeah like whats been said for some reason i can rarely pure and my experiences suffer due to that but im also now at a level where i dont need to take it all i have to do is meditate i really only use it with other people and if a group has it one person can purge for the whole group. its tricky ayahuasca is not a drug its clearly magic it involves putting your soul into it when ever i make it with my friend who is a druid it has a green and red glow and when taken the green and red glow can be seen. this is off topic but does any one have any experiance of what im talking about with glows for it or seeing glows as in poeples auras and energy?


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: thedudenj]
    #5971857 - 08/17/06 01:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

truekimbo2...what maoi plant did you use? That is a pretty important part of the ayahuasca preparation. 20-25 grams of mimosa is nothing but dmt and certain un-named alks. SOme of which are possibly maois....Thats why that dmt plant works to some slight degree without an maoi.


to EquilibriuM ::::
I wouldnt mess with extracts just for the sake of learning about how to make your own brew. Its an accomplishment if you really learn to "get it", regardless of the plants you are using.

Use rue seed if you want to learn a thing or two about maois. 5 grams of rue can be pretty hallucinogenic by its self.


I only suggested viridis because, besides mimosa that is all I ever felt I needed. Im sure chaliponga is a great source for dmt.

Learn how to make a brew from plants. I would not recommend an extract. Considering how far rue and viridis is from the traditional method that is. Using rue and viridis is the golden mean.

I have often eaten 3.5 grams of rue over a period of about 1 hour. Even that is highly effective if you chew it VERY well.(bread and water inbetween swallows)........

Sounds crazy I know, but its one way to have a long lasting ayahuasca experience.

In my experience it sticks to the gut resulting in a long lasting oral dmt experience.

There are just so many ways to do it..... Just add 9-15 grams of viridis 30 min. after, to test the waters. Even that amount could be WAY more than you expected given the wide range of viridis potency.

Your brew doesnt have to be only one brew. It can be two, taken at different times. Its not the traditional method, but it can be more than intense, and depending on the plants that you use, the most intense experience doesnt have to make you sick.....

For some people, it will still make them feel ill. Boiled rue, or not......


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


Edited by yageman (08/17/06 01:32 AM)


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: yageman]
    #5971865 - 08/17/06 01:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i used 3-4 grams of rue each time.

speaking of which, i might take the time to write up a trip report. the most recent time i tried to do ayahuasca my girlfriend and i got incredibly sick and incredibly high off of 3 grams of syrian rue each.

it was about 4 straight hours of throwing up, we both couldn't be inside. light/movement/sound made me incredible disoriented.

i was actually getting visions and stuff it was crazy. the most vivid one i can remeber is closing my eyes and watching my brain be dipped in milk (it was very lifelike looking)

keep in mind this is just off of 3 grams of syrian rue. i guess we just got the unlucky super strong batch...

edit: i'm glad as fuck we didn't drink the other plants before we realised how sick we were going to get. my girlfriend put the rest of our syrian rue in a biohazard bag and hung it from the wall hehehehe.


--------------------
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Edited by truekimbo2 (08/17/06 01:32 AM)


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5971879 - 08/17/06 01:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Rue doesnt vary that much. You just had a strong reaction to rue.

I would assume you have many psychedelic trips under your belt?
Thats sort of a common reaction to maois....

There is no doubt that rue by its self can be intense. Its the same as caapi though. Just less plant matter....

The original ayahuasca is only maois, go figure. Many tribes/peoples consider the maois to be the spirit of the brew, the dmt only adds color and other rather intense properties to the visions.

To take a shamans brew, for those who are ready for it, would be taking 5 grams of rue atleast. That ontop of some dmt plants.
8 grams of rue is not taken by shamans in south america because they use a more gentile but more nauseating local plant.

Rue hits hard, mostly because of the little amount of plant matter that it takes to trip VERY hard...


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


Edited by yageman (08/17/06 01:42 AM)


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: yageman]
    #5972032 - 08/17/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i've taken that dose of rue many times before, my girlfriend also had the same strong reaction but she hadn't taken it before.


--------------------
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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5972363 - 08/17/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

they say that the rue has less experience working with people, and the cappi has tons. The cappi will lead you through the experience while the rue will just drop you off where the DMT plants want you to go.

I have zero experience with these particular power plants as of now, so I cannot verify any of it.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5972494 - 08/17/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:

I tend to agree with you more then some report on erowid, simply because you seem to have personal experience in the matter and the latter seems impersonal. thats just what I read... may be true, may not, probably somewhere in between... but I'm interested in whats what in practice, not in theory.




Even erowid tends to agree if you look at some of the reports, rather than the figures of potency that people have come up with. Such figures for psilocybe species have been completely debunked on this board, and trichocereus studies seem often to not reflect real life experience as well.

I'm not saying that the figures are absolutely false, simply that as members of the same basic community, we can probably more accurately look to each other to better represent what we might experience. Maybe the sources in south america happen to send really terrible chaliponga leaves, and sometimes really good mimosa? Maybe it doesn't represent the alkaloids where they naturally occur, but I'd say it's closer to what you or I will come across with the kinds of sources we have.


--------------------
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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5972502 - 08/17/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

btw my rule for rue is usually 1-2.5 grams i find 3 to be excessive. the less scientific approach is i use 2 pinches. Also colour of caapi plays a key role in how the stuff effects becarful using red and black vine unless alone, if you want to do it with others use yellow and white.


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Edited by thedudenj (08/17/06 11:01 AM)


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: thedudenj]
    #5972521 - 08/17/06 11:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I too find 3 to be chaotic with rue. Best at around 2.

And I'd suggest not doing black caapi at all if you're avoiding the purge. Ever. Black caapi is all about the purge for many. Even the very reason it is used.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Anyone used ayahuasca... ? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5972855 - 08/17/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yeah man red and black are only for expert shamans people can get hurt by it


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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