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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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I am reading a book by Stephen F. Hayes. It is titled "The Connection; How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America"
Here is how he began Chapter 12: Quote: That is quite a time-line. I wanted to keep that little summary and type it down before I returned the book to the library. I am sure you have all viewed postings that give actual quotations of democrats about Saddam, Osama and Weapons of Mass Destruction et all. The Democratic party is currently undergoing an attempt to rewrite history. Anyone who stands in the way, like Joe Lieberman, will be punished. If Joe had ignored all the intelligence that he based his decisions on and started parroting the party line ("Bush Lied" "No Evidence" "No Link" "Bush's War") he would have a safe Senate seat today. The Democrats are in denial, and that is a dangerous place to be. We live in a world where we have to make tough choices, and those choice have big consequences. We need competent leaders to face reality and work hard to come up with workable solutions to the problems that we face. Right now the Democrats are engaged in some delusional fantasy. Maybe George Bush isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Maybe the Generals who put together the war plan could have done a better job. Maybe we shouldn't have gone in so quick. I support the war. I also realize that reasonable people can come to vastly different solutions given the same sets of facts. But as Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan once said, “you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” The facts are that Saddam's historical ties to terror are quite lengthy. Those facts don't vanish when you demonize George Bush. George Bush is not the root of all evil. He is not Hitler. He doesn't cause hurricanes. From climate change and hurricanes to terror attacks and gas prices George Bush is seen at the root cause by Democrats. Some of you may claim that I am making a straw man argument, but I see people all around me making these arguments every day. And they are educated, sophisticated professional people that have accomplished much in life. The moon-bat left has taken over the party. And if you don't like George Bush and the republicans, what you need to do is have a reasonable alternative that has some founding in reality. "It is all Bush's fault" might make you feel better, but it isn't an ideology or a lasting framework to put this country on sound footing for the future. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Servent ofWisdom Registered: 02/10/06 Posts: 7,059 Loc: Crown and Heart Last seen: 12 years, 11 months |
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-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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blarrr Registered: 06/04/04 Posts: 5,952 |
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Is that all you got?
Look, people have conversations and meetings all the time. Even enemies. The real question is what went on at those meetings? What agreements were made at the end of the day? This is awfully thin gruel. Particularly at this late date. Numerous sources have reported a 1993 nonaggression pact between Iraq and al Qaeda. "Numerous sources"? I seem to remember hearing about a "nonagression pact" between Hitler and Stalin during WWII. Guess what? They were enemies who ended up in a war with each other! Don't kid yourself. Bin Laden was no friend of Saddam Hussein. Hussein ran a secular nation and Bin Laden desires an Islamic state for goodness sake! Sorry, this is old news and no amount of heated rhetoric can breathe life back into its dessicated corpse despite desperate attempts by a few diehards. -------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Stranger Registered: 05/29/06 Posts: 540 Loc: North America Last seen: 16 years, 2 months |
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-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Seeker of Truth Registered: 11/19/05 Posts: 686 Loc: Virginia Last seen: 17 years, 3 months |
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"the consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."
THAT IS THE ONLY REASON WE ARE AT WAR WITH IRAQ Alright "Jesus", WOT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Im sorry for being rash, but seriously? Alright, not only are Bush's rhetorics are terrible, but everyday the US under the Bush regime makes everyday more and more like 1984. Oh, and its very odd you think the "Democrats" are "rewriting history", seems more like you got yourself mixed up with the wrong party: http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/new-white-house-policy-advisor-caught-rewriting-history And if you don't like George Bush and the republicans, what you need to do is have a reasonable alternative that has some founding in reality. "It is all Bush's fault" might make you feel better, but it isn't an ideology or a lasting framework to put this country on sound footing for the future. -No it really does not make me feel better, it makes me feel worst, because i know when i say it or think it, it is: "We speak with former FBI translator, Sibel Edmonds, who was hired shortly after Sept. 11 to translate intelligence gathered over the previous year related to the 9/11 attacks. She says the FBI had information that an attack using airplanes was being planned before Sept. 11 and calls Condoleezza Rice's claim the White House had no specific information on a domestic threat or one involving planes "an outrageous lie." 911 WAS BUSH'S FAULT; he LET it happen. He could informed airlines about the upcoming crisis and tell them to stop flights..... why did he "ignore" this evidence of an attack? http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/31/1616221 Oh, and tell me, why did we invade Iraq? Surely there were WMDs of course, bah the inspectators were lying to us, and this is bollocks right? Great controversy emerged when no stockpiles of such weapons were found, leading to accusations that the United States, and in particular its President George W. Bush had deliberately inflated intelligence or lied about Iraq's weapons in order to justify an invasion of the country. The Iraq Survey Group reported in 2004 that "while a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991." I do have a resolution for an alternative to Bush, but im sorry to inform you unlike Bush's admin., this one will not be "up in the clouds, in their castle", this one will be in on this thing called "reality", and being pratical. The most likely is the democrats actually do something and win next election with a good runner, and hopefully we are restored a couple straws of our precious freedom. My true solution, in my opinion, is less pratical, since america is the most capitalistic pig of a country in the world, where all the rich feed upon the poor and have stepped upon their faces for 250 years, there is no "free-market" anymore.... SOCIALISM: We need to be fair to everyone, life shouldnt exist for material wealth, we should strive to coexist in a place where dog doesnt eat dog; socialism is the end of greed, a structure that if used properly, can end poverty and hunger. We have the ablity to end world hunger, but man is greedy, so it is inevitable for the Bourgeoisie to maintain their power.
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Seeker of Truth Registered: 11/19/05 Posts: 686 Loc: Virginia Last seen: 17 years, 3 months |
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woah, my point kinda got wobbly there, damn i hate jet lag ggg
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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http://home.rochester.rr.com/ascarbrough/demquotes.html
Quote: -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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That reply wasn't exactly to you Cat. I had referenced the dem quotes in the earlier article. There was a time when Democrats firmly believed and admitted those things.
As for your theory of Socialism being the solution, I am not sure that is the answer to the problem of islamo-facism that we are facing today. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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Quote: I think Saddam and Bin Laden were working together in the Sudan, and they even have telephone records of Chemical Ali. Stragely, most of our best evidence of them working together comes from the Clinton administration. (I still wonder what secrets were lost in Sandy Berger's pants, maybe Able Danger?) Saddam also tried to kill an American Ex President. The Michael Moore left used to taunt the right saying that this war was for Dubya to get his revenge for that. But the fact remains he tried to kill the first George Bush. The clarity of a post 9/11 world dictates that you can't appease people like that. No government should be allowed to order hits on our Presidents. Not even Jimmy Carter. And Saddam did give safe harbor to the original World Trade Center bombers, as well as Abu Nidal. Saddam's ties to terror are extraordinary. You guys can ostrich up and stick your head in the sand, pretending bad guys don't exist. But the real world is quite different. Wake up. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Stranger Registered: 05/29/06 Posts: 540 Loc: North America Last seen: 16 years, 2 months |
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Quote: You can stretch it as far as you want, but saddam didn't have any more terror ties than saudi arabia, egypt and the UAE. Saddam's terror ties were embellished to draw public support for an invasion that was based on the lies from the beginning. The only ones with their heads in the sand is people of your ilk, or in your case maybe I should say on the cross?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Seeker of Truth Registered: 11/19/05 Posts: 686 Loc: Virginia Last seen: 17 years, 3 months |
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Quote:
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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Lies? He did work with Al Qaeda with weapons development in Sudan. He did try to assassinate an American President. He did defy the ceasefire agreement and shoot on US planes patrolling the no fly zone. He did harbor terrorists that attacked the World Trade Center. Ever heard of the World Trade Center? You thinking killing our Presidents is a good idea? Iraq was a state supporter or terrorism. Saddam was a genocidal and ruthless bastard. He was a threat to the free world, and he worked with numerous terrorists.
Why don't you replay Michael Moore showing people flying kites in Iraq. Then stick your head in the sand again. Joe Lieberman was right. All those other Democrats quoted above were right. And if you are right that this whole thing was based on lies and deception, than I guess that deception came from Clinton-era democrats that went on the record about Saddam and Osama. The press used to believe it all too, until George Bush came along. I can show you articles of liberal news outlets showing the connection during the Clinton years. Even PBS was on the trail connecting Saddam with terrorism. Christ almighty, you dolts have a short memory. This is not some big conspiracy contrived by George Bush. Trust me, he doesn't have the capacity to do it. And acting like this is just one big tall tale skirts reality. It ignores the history of genocide and terrorism in Iraq, and it ignores the history of consistent and successful attempts of Democrats to document it and point it out. Joe Lieberman was right the first time and he stuck to his guns. As for the possible and proposed solution that I asked for, the only thing we have on the table is "Socialism". Take that for what it is worth. Nobody else has a plan. For my own sake, I picture myself in the White House after 9/11. I don't know how we could fight this menace without actually having to really fight it. I don't think speeches or power points were going to do the trick. Maybe a catchy bumper sticker wouldn't do either. As witnessed last week at the airports, these fuckers are still out there and they want us dead. I don't have all the answers. I will admit that. I don't know how you could fight terrorism without taking out people like Saddam that made Iraq into a state supporting terror machine. Now you can just deny that if that is your best argument, but he was knee deep in that shit. The record doesn't lie, people on the left just lie about the record. Read those Clinton era quotes above. Did the Governor of Texas make the Clinton administration make those connections? It can't all be George Bush's fault. Please. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Son Of God Registered: 02/19/04 Posts: 1,459 Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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Quote: I didn't OK the order to kill Castro. I have to confess I don't know enough about Castro at that time. He certainly doesn't have a great track record on human rights. Judging by that it probably wasn't a bad idea. You ever see rafts leaving the US going to Cuba? Ever wonder why you don't? Think. And you justify having the State of Iraq putting a hit on an American President. Again, in a post 9/11 world, we had to take another look at where the next threat would be, as well as the source of current threats. Trying to kill an American President is an extreme terrorist action. And you seem to think that the American people should take such an attempt lying down. Amazing. I have to confess that I would have rather assassinated Saddam than gone to war in Iraq. But people like you have complained about savages like Castro long enough that the country has decided attempts like that are bad policy. So we watch the genocide in Rwanda and the Sudan like spectators in a tragic comedy. If I was the man I would take those fuckers out. I would take out Mugabe too. So maybe I am a bit duplicitous by favoring killing heads of state while defending my own. But the first George Bush was a democratically elected President of a free people. He wasn't a savage and genocidal dictator. There is a difference, and anyone that tries to knock off any American President should be put on ice. That should be rule #1. -------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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Seeker of Truth Registered: 11/19/05 Posts: 686 Loc: Virginia Last seen: 17 years, 3 months |
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Alright, tell me this, should America always be the "Liberators of Democracy", and spread "democracy" around the world? So should we go to every single fucking country that has a governing body unsimilar to ours and level it, take out the leaders by bombing the shit out of them and causing a calamity of death to its innocent people and then "restart" the structure from scratch? Hey, why do you think that we went to Iraq, and not Iran? Iran actually has WMDs, and is more of a threat to the world or to the u.s. then Sadaam ever was. Let me ask you one other thing, do you think it's justified that thousands upon thousands of cilivians were killed in the name of "liberty", and in the "war on terrorism"? Over 3485 cilivians died in the October 7, 2001 thru March 2002 U.S. bombings over Afghanistan, for only a couple hundred who were involved with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Over 2834 coalition soldiers along with 2600 U.S. soldiers have been killed in the Iraq War, leaving Iraq still in the hands of chaos (where is this "democracy" in Iraq?) being in a worser state than under Sadaams regime. Hmmmm and what happened to the times when "WAR" was but an act of military use when approved by congress? This did not happen, but im am not surprised, for many things have not agreed with the constitution that are government has done, MANY! One thing would help me understand better though.... if only the officals would tell the mothers whose sons are now dead why we actually went to war, for what did their sons die for? In the name of freedom? That seems justified, dont you think?
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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Quote: I am not going to address this situation specifically, but I think it is important to realize that every act of governance on this planet effects other governing bodies and its people. Each single government plays a role in the state of the world as a whole. I would not necessarily propose that this specific situation was addressed in the most effective manner, as it simply isn't a subject that I study into, but I think that one must consider such a perspective. Concerns need to be addressed, in an effective manner, to ensure the benefit of the world as a whole. Quote: It probably wouldn't be the best possible course of action. Almost every country has a government that is not exactly similar to our own. Some countries have governments that govern in distinctly different manners than our own, and yet we can still find a means to interact with them in beneficial ways for all concerned. Besides, it is simply a question of our available resources, it isn't plausible to level every country and reconstruct it. ![]() Quote: Read above. ![]() Quote: I couldn't possibly think it is that simple. Diplomacy is rather delicate, international relations isn't a walk in the park, and it is entirely reasonable that it is not. Quote: Every action has consequences. Humans have been engaging in war since the beginning of recorded history. The question of whether or not it is justified is present in each specific instance of war. I'm not exactly sure how much ground will be gained by posing the question this time around. ![]() Quote: Last I knew, Congress voted to approve the resolution for a war on Iraq. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALL Quote: Where were you? Denial? ![]() Quote: Why did they die? Because they enlisted in the Armed Forces, were sent to a foreign land, engaged in warfare, and died. What more could you expect? You sign up and that's the game you've approved yourself to play. Perhaps if there was a draft, it would be a different circumstance, as those who would be dead did not volunteer to die. ![]() Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Prince of Bugs ![]() Registered: 10/08/02 Posts: 44,175 Last seen: 6 months, 28 days |
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Quote: Source? Quote: Source?
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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Quote: Source? ![]() Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Stranger Registered: 05/29/06 Posts: 540 Loc: North America Last seen: 16 years, 2 months |
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Quote: He worked with US too, I don't see you calling for rumsfeld's head for helping saddam. Ever see the shaking hands picture? Or it's ok with you because saddam was a good guy then right? ![]() You know I'd go through and debunk all your points but this has all been done before. What saddam was, was a washed up dictator who was trying to hold onto power by the skin of his teeth. You live in a fantasy world if you think he was a threat to anyone outside of iraq. Almost every point you made was embellished if not completely bullshit. Saudi arabia is 1000x more a state sponsor of terrorism than iraq ever was. You just buy into every turd that drops out of the US govts ass don't you? You even believe bush is a real christian too I bet. Please. -------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Seeker of Truth Registered: 11/19/05 Posts: 686 Loc: Virginia Last seen: 17 years, 3 months |
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1 Quote:
Over 3485 cilivians died in the October 7, 2001 thru March 2002 U.S. bombings over Afghanistan, for only a couple hundred who were involved with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html (originally taken from Wikipedia) 2 leaving Iraq still in the hands of chaos (where is this "democracy" in Iraq?) being in a worser state than under Sadaams regime. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/06/AR2006060601396.html 3 DinahTheCat said: Hmmmm and what happened to the times when "WAR" was but an act of military use when approved by congress? This did not happen Now this, i should have looked up before, sorry that i said this, but for some reason i thought it was similar to agreements in the patriot act. I suppose im with Rosettastoned, (you a tool fan?) on the account that I too do not wish to debate any farther, since you all are slaves to the machine.
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