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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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I saw that show 30 days last night...
#5961922 - 08/14/06 06:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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So it was the episode with the athiest who lives with the christians... I used to be atheist then one day I ate mushrooms in the midst of nature and just started thinking of whoa no way there can't be a god/higher being/spirits/etc... I don't believe in following any kind of denomination but it was weird seeing this mother raising her kids the way she did.
Although the Christian family was pretty strange but then again a lot of christians kind of have the same approach to those who aren't.
Though I can't believe the atheist has gone so long and just thinks everything is just according to nature. Excuse me if I start acting as one of those who feel everyone should believe in god, but for me it's those certain events in life that really don't have much explaining behind them except for words like "fate/chance/destiny". Everything is subjective but I've noticed those who have a spiritual side and have experienced some form of enlightenment live their lives a little more open and have a "more free" day. Christians are an example of this, they have their spirituality and you can see a difference in many christians as opposed to those who disregard their spirituality. The problem with christianity is that "Jesus is the only way" ... to a christian. The lack of acceptance in other religious beliefs gives them a bad name and even I have gone off on one for not being accepting.
Anyhow, I thought being atheist was something of teen years that one grew out and became spiritual. It was wild seeing these adults not believing... Whether they were spiritual or not i think they would've elaborated if they were but it was strange.
anyways just thought i'd ramble
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: Cracka_X]
#5961964 - 08/14/06 07:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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i imagined the whole family as rednecks
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Namaste
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: RedNucleus]
#5962410 - 08/14/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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it's hard for me to believe in a God, but I definitely believe in spirituality. When I pray I'm just talking to myself is what it feels like, like the only God is internalized in my brain, the result of the proper alignment of chakras and chemicals, and that's just as real as any God in the sky who has a beard.....
then there is the universe, as the grand manfiestation of all this divine unity linked together........ and that can be construed as "God" but it seems like a lot of religions just personify the metaphysical so it's easy for people to understand.
For instance Jesus and the father being one, well that says to me.... the father is accessed through the individual, so how is it separate from the individual, if Jesus was united and equal to his Father? (or I think he claimed he was in the Bible)
also Christians fall into a dangerous trap of following dogma without being spiritual.
It's kind of like if you grow up being raised by McDonald's propoganda, and you always eat there every week and you're like "man McDonalds is the BEST hamburger ever!" but that's only because you've never ever experienced other hamburgers..... then you come to realize it's the HAMBURGER itself that is important, not where it comes from..... so then you can still appreciate McDonald's while having a broader range of hamburger experience.
this is a bit lacking in an analogy, it's just like to me the different religions work differently and some are real simple and "silly" to intellectuals and some are real "far out" and threatening to those who need simple things, but they all kind of have the same product
except that because Christianity is consensus reality, if you are told you are saved, you might just BELIEVE it! And that is so dangerous, if you are saved you know it....... being SAVED is so different from being 'saved'
oh and McDonald's also teaches you to campaign against other hamburgers, claiming that yours is the best, and discourages exploration.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (08/14/06 11:27 AM)
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: leery11]
#5962482 - 08/14/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes I think a lot of beliefs are implanted or brainwashed, if you will, into the mind. If I goto Church every other day and become "one" with this bible then I'll be damned if all that information doesn't become subconcious.
To me I believe there is something but would a god who created the nature all around ask to use his name in excess and for humans to glorify his name in an extravagant cathedral or church? It's too fake... not natural...
Yeah you're right, or there's something like that in the bible along those lines. I never liked the idea of Church or Temple, being that I'm Jewish. And they'll say Jews are "the chosen people". You're God's children and should feel very special. Like everyone has to be on someone's team who shares the same beliefs and when someone doesn't comply then there's scrutiny of the individual questioning their fate or questions that arise out of religious texts that came from a "book". It's hard talking about religion.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: Cracka_X]
#5962516 - 08/14/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah I mean, if you look at religion on the local level it unifies, but on the larger scheme completely divides the planet.
so religion is really just a cultures myths and practices and rituals and understandings.
why would God see to it that the people of Earth were stratified under so many different creeds, some of which command intolerance of all other creeds, so that people start bickering and never reach a world peace and unison?
Let's say Jesus is the only way. Why didn't God send a Jesus to the middle east, a Jesus to Europe.... a Jesus to Africa, and a Jesus to the Americas, and a Jesus to Asia....
who always taught the most identical teachings, and who always used the same name...... so that then people would realize that they all are following the same religion with only very minor nuances related to translatoin and the progression of time?
or at least, all cultures could have a religion where the notion of universal sacrifice and pardoning of sin is in place.
i mean it's peculiar, the only reason Christianity spread is because it was the religion of a brutal empire........ and yet... look at poor Jesus he rebelled against the empire, was killed....... and yet his name, and his religion, were so blasphemed against..... that Christ spread through FORCE and violence through other empires and nations.
it's puzzling.
Christianity could merely be a message to reject authority, war, violence, persecution, capital punishment, and to break free of your societies ways (i.e. mark of the beast, i.e. consumerism) to find unity with God through love.
I also feel like the gnostic way is the better one, because I don't understand how praying to Christ is enough to illuminate your soul...... unless you pray for many many many many years..... whereas if you spent just 30 minutes clearing your head and shifting brainwave states in meditation, that seems more powerful than saying "Well Jesus, you know what I'm about to say, but I'd like you to secure me with eternal life please. Amen."
and yet though, many Christians just like that example, through simple prayer and blind or otherwise indoctrinated faith, have experienced profound things...... my friend has many stories of really paranormal stuff happening at this Christian summer camp he counsels at.... out of body experiences, weird visual cloud things floating around... people randomly breaking down and crying and yelling in tongues and laughing hysterically.
maybe God knew people would be heavily enslaved and indoctrinated, so he thought they might as well be indoctrinated with something that turns out to be true, even though they don't generally voluntarily go into the faith, rather are born into it?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (08/14/06 12:04 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: Cracka_X]
#5962559 - 08/14/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cracka_X said: I used to be atheist then one day I ate mushrooms in the midst of nature and just started thinking of whoa no way there can't be a god/higher being/spirits/etc...
Just so that you know, the thought "Oh, you know what, there has to be some sort of 'god'" doesn't exactly pass for sound reasoning. 
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Though I can't believe the atheist has gone so long and just thinks everything is just according to nature.
It is a little odd, as most individuals eventually delude themselves as to the nature of reality in some form or another. Usually, at some point along the path of adulthood, humans suffer some inability to accept reality as it is, or they face questions that cannot really be answered, so they chasm jump them with unsubstantiated beliefs. Ultimately, reality reveals itself as it is, and they suffer more as a result.
It isn't really odd that some human beings are capable of directly perceiving reality, and simply knowing it as it is. We need not make baseless assumptions simply because reality implies a lot, or because we have some feeling. 
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Excuse me if I start acting as one of those who feel everyone should believe in god, but for me it's those certain events in life that really don't have much explaining behind them except for words like "fate/chance/destiny".
No current, reasonable explanation for phenomenon = make something up. Hey, its great, because you can't be wrong, since there is no way to determine the actuality of the matter!
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Anyhow, I thought being atheist was something of teen years that one grew out and became spiritual.
In actuality, it is more common for children to form fantastical models of reality, monsters in the closet and such, and, as they experience more aspects of reality, they become less likely to simply believe things because the thought occured to them to believe it. More experience usually means more understanding of reality, but then some (most?) people have minds that are seriously obstructive of their direct perceptions... 
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It was wild seeing these adults not believing...
How do you see someone "not believing"? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: I saw that show 30 days last night... [Re: leery11]
#5962720 - 08/14/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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you're right, but when you say," why didn't jesus come to different parts of the world to show them "the way".." and this is my take on that. I made a post about the Tao earlier and there seems to be a lot of repetition in this forum but oh well, here's an excerpt...
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The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao
So everything I was told about Jesus ran through my head. In particular Jesus would wash anyones feet, even whores and prostitues, and be spit on and wouldn't care. He was selfless. So Christians say," JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD!" And this is my take on it... Jesus is THE WAY to god because Jesus follows The Way(The Tao). And by living as Jesus or accepting him then you are apparently saved. But if you live by The Way and Jesus lives by The Way then you are believing in Jesus. Not by giving your allegiance to any denomination but simply because you believe in The Way. The Tao goes on...
Tao and this world seem different but in truth they are one and the same The only difference is in what we call them
Also the tao goes into "if one follows the Tao then one will be eternal"
I've read briefly into other religions and they all seem relatively similar. But like the Tao says, "but in truth they are one and the same...the only difference is in what we call them"
And so with that said let me get back into something that may clarify my confusion with the atheist in 30 Days. I'm reading this journal called the Parabola and it has all religions in it. So one section of a Rabb says...
People sometimes are like a catepillars. They act by instinct and walk in a circle. And they go like this until they die. Always in the same circle. I said to my friend that sometimes people in this kind of circle in their spiritual life and the only way to solve it is to cut it. You have to cut the caterpillarlike circle by will, and then you may go in any direction.
The circle means death, moving but staying in the same place. There are people who lead that sort of life for years, and I'm not speaking about meteral ways of life, but spiritual as well. A person has all kinds of driving impulses, but no solution. You come to the same questions, the same answers, and so you move in a circle. You don't move anywhere.
Things like worry or depression are almost the same. You wgo into a circle, and you can't cut it. Because a worry doesn't have any answer. It can only be cut, not answered. You can go on worrying forever.
Sometimes you make a choice. There are certain things that you just don't want to care about. People make such decisions all the time. Look, some people have an obsession with an absence. An absence of money. And they are obsessed with it all their life. Including people who become very, very rich. But they can't get rid of the yearning, and all the time have same kind of unresolved desire. Other people may have a great yearning for beauty. Some people don't have it at all. So for them, there's no absence, and for them there's no yearning. It just doesn't exist. At a certain point we make decisions not only about what we are going to do but about what are going to desire.
Now I forgot the relevance of all that... heh no.. what I got out of it and why i'm comparing it to the atheist and even the christians on 30 Days is because of their way of seeing everything as directed from the bible or a set of beliefs that they remain in the same spot. They can't have flexibility of the word of their book or mind. I guess I'm a hypocrite myself and who isn't? There's only so much I can do to not be called a hypocrite. Probably the best would be to not say anything at all and avoid the notion alltogether.
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In actuality, it is more common for children to form fantastical models of reality, monsters in the closet and such, and, as they experience more aspects of reality, they become less likely to simply believe things because the thought occured to them to believe it. More experience usually means more understanding of reality, but then some (most?) people have minds that are seriously obstructive of their direct perceptions...
I'm going to say the large excerpt from the rabbi should be around where I want to answer this 
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Just so that you know, the thought "Oh, you know what, there has to be some sort of 'god'" doesn't exactly pass for sound reasoning.
haha yeah yeah I know. It's one of those things I really don't know how to explain.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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