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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Rye Grain

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OfflineRedHead
member
Registered: 06/26/00
Posts: 86
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
problems with grain quarts
    #595820 - 04/01/02 09:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

originally i inoculated 10 quarts (multi-spore b+ from t.h.e.). i used 2-3ccs per jar. i used this method- to a tee:

http://shroomery.org/faq/faq.php?display=faq&nr=67&catnr=5&prog=1&lang=en

the jars were shaken immediately after depressurization- then placed back in the p.c. to cool over night. i have a 36 quart bin with a few inches of water and h2o2 in it- a fish tank heater keeps it at a constant 85 degrees. this is where all my jars go. all but 2 quarts either stalled or got contaminated. in the end, all 10 quarts were useless.
the next day i prepared 8 1/4 pint pf style jars. they were inoculated with about 1cc (.25 cc's per hole, multi-spore b+ from t.h.e.). they all colonized wonderfully. no problems at all. i have since used these 1/4 pints to spawn new quarts. this time i used organic wheat berries. 5 quarts were prepared by soaking the wheat for 48 hours- rinsed, filled jars 3/4 full and then pressure cooked for 60 minutes at 15psi. i did 5 more quarts by precooking the wheat berries, filling the jars 3/4 full and then pressure cooking for 60 min at 15psi. i used 2 1/4 pints (fully colonized) to spawn 5 quarts. i wiped out a big ziplock bag with alcohol- dumped the 2 1/4 pint in, closed the bag and broke the cakes up into tiny pieces. i further sterilized the quarts by adding 1/4 cup of h2o2 solution (1/4 cup h202 (3%) and 4 cups of distilled water) to each jar. i shook the jars to get a nice coating of peroxide on everything- then the solution was drained out. i trasfered a heaping tablespoon from the ziplock bag into each quart using the oven tek. this is a ratio of about 20:1 grain to spawn. the jars were shaken once the spawn was added- then they were placed in the incubation bin. i was very sterile doing all of this. all the jars have polyfill filters, about 1/4" hole and tin foil over the top.

the jars that were soaked for 48 hours seemed to be doing very well. initial growth was very good and they have become white all over. it has been about 10 days since the transfer. BUT- now that there is a good amount of mycelia growing all over- the growth has seemed to stop. i can't really notice much growth anymore and this yellow mycelia waste is appearing. everything starts out great- i notice wonderful rhizo growth from many points- but as the quarts get more and more colonized- the slower it gets and then this yellow stuff starts to appear- it seems to get to 75% or so and then just quit. i haven't shaken the jars since the spawn was added- the last time i shook jars after good growth was noticed- the growth never returned. so i am afraid to shake it up. i find it hard to believe that they are getting contaminated- especially since there is such rapid mycelia growth in the beginning where there is the most uncolonized grain.

the other 5 quarts that were precooked- were further sterilized and transferred the exact same way as the first 5 quarts. they have been sitting in the incubation bin for about 10 days also. there is really not much growth happening- the little pieces of colonized cake are getting nice and white- but it doesn't seem to be expanding to the wheat berries. the jars look overly wet to me. i have a feeling they are all contaminated. but here- i realize what went wrong- it seems that the jars have too much moisture in them. i don't really understand why this happened because i followed the formula (1.) in the link above exactly. i am much more frustrated with these jars that colonized wonderfully in the beginning- then once they start to become fully colonized they stop.

HOWEVER- i filled some 1/4 pint jars with the same precooked wheat i used in the 5 quarts- sterilized them the same way i did the quarts. i probably used half as much colonized spawn here as i did with the quarts- this makes the ratio of grain to spawn about 8:1. they were placed in the incubation bin about 10 days ago and they are about fully colonized- wonderful thick white growth everywhere. i do not at all anticipate them stalling. so, whats the deal? this is the same wheat that i used in the quarts- they show relatively nothing and these 1/4 pints are almost done. i realize i used twice as much spawn- but is that the whole reason i'm having trouble here- i just need to use more colonized spawn when transferring jars?

i have done a lot of research about how do colonize grains this on this site and others- i used a few different highly recommened formulas and i have not had success with any of them. the only time things have worked out is when i use these small jars. i have 6 1/4 pints that are almost fully colonized. i want to use these to spawn. i am very reluctant to try quarts or even grain again. i was thinking of getting some pint or half pint jars- doing them pf style and then transferring colonized spawn to them. originally, when i started this project more than a month ago i planned on using 30-40 1/2 pints pf style and i was convinced to go the grain/quart jar route instead. now i have all these problems. i don't need 20 quarts of spawn i just need a few so i can spawn manure and castings and things. but i can't get more than these stupid little jars to colonize FULLY.

these 6 1/4 pints should be plenty to get the amount of colonized spawn i need. what should i do here? pf jars? grain?? if grain, how to prepare it (i will be using wheat berries if i use grain at all)? what size jars? what should a SAFE ratio be here (grain to spawn)? can i use the quart jars i have and only fill them a 1/4-1/2 way up instead of getting pints or 1/2 pint jars? does all the air in the jars matter? i'm tired of these unreliable quarts. there has got to an easier way.

red


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Offlinecookiewhore
enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 385
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: problems with grain quarts [Re: RedHead]
    #596398 - 04/02/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

if anything, you should have less contam problems if you properly sterilize your grain.
It doesnt really matter how much you break your 1/4 pints up, jusdt matters how much they are dispersed.
the more innoculant, the faster.
grain you can also shake, to speed colonization
although, if you leave it alone, it will still colonize faster than the spores & PF Tek


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OfflineRedHead
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Registered: 06/26/00
Posts: 86
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: problems with grain quarts [Re: cookiewhore]
    #596475 - 04/02/02 02:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

the colonized cakes were very well dispersed throughout the quarts of uncolonized grain. have i not been sterilizing the grain properly?? were the methods i used incorrect? is it pointless to try and spawn some pf pints or half pints with these 6 colonized 1/4 pints? or is it only possible to spawn whole grain in jars like this?



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Offlinecookiewhore
enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 385
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: problems with grain quarts [Re: RedHead]
    #596690 - 04/02/02 05:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

well, i have never gone from cakes to grain, but i cant see it being a problem. i have had nothing but the worst of luck with cakes in general, so i dont fuck with them anymore.
if you have good luck with them, try spawning some over into the grain.
once you get colonized grain, its easy to spawn those over. very easy, cause they are shakable.

make sure whatever you slice your cakes with is sterile, get some alcohol and flame sterilze it inbetween cuts (i get extra paranoid)
also, it would be nice if you have a flowhood, or at least one of those sterile boxes to work in. glove box??
make sure you transfer quickly, and open the rye for a short time.

I also recomend polyfill filter floss filters. they work A-1.


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Invisibleshaggymane
PHARMER

Registered: 03/11/02
Posts: 514
Loc: great white north
Re: problems with grain quarts [Re: cookiewhore]
    #596692 - 04/02/02 05:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

read what he said ---------------------------------- i wiped out a big ziplock bag with alcohol- dumped the 2 1/4 pint in, closed the bag and broke the cakes up into tiny pieces. i further sterilized the quarts by adding 1/4 cup of h2o2 solution (1/4 cup h202 (3%) and 4 cups of distilled water) to each jar. i shook the jars to get a nice coating of peroxide on everything- then the solution was drained out. i trasfered a heaping tablespoon from the ziplock bag into each quart using the oven tek. this is a ratio of about 20:1 grain to spawn.


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OfflineRedHead
member
Registered: 06/26/00
Posts: 86
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: problems with grain quarts [Re: shaggymane]
    #596983 - 04/02/02 09:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

thanks for the responses. really looking for answers to these:

these 6 1/4 pints should be plenty to get the amount of colonized spawn i need. what should i do here? pf jars? grain?? if grain, how to prepare it (i will be using wheat berries if i use grain at all)? what size jars? what should a SAFE ratio be here (grain to spawn)? can i use the quart jars i have and only fill them a 1/4-1/2 way up instead of getting pints or 1/2 pint jars? does all the air in the jars matter? thanks!

red


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Rye Grain

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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