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OfflineHrethic
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Tobacco
    #5957019 - 08/12/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hey everyone, so i need some straight answers. How many different types of species and subspecies are there of tobacco. On shamanspalace they have n rustica and n tobaccum, yet both have exactly the same description. Erowid doesn't help, and all the threads here have been fluff.

Is there a compendium or something of the different types, ways and times to harvest, relative potency and all that jazz for tobacco?

I'm very interested in growing my own, especially if there are multiple varieties for incense/smoking/rolling and general aesthetic appeal. Thanks!


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OfflineDelta9Hippie
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5957230 - 08/12/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

n. tobacum is the species mainly used for cigarrettes and the like. It usually has rather large leaves. N. rustica has much more nicotine, generally smaller & thicker leaves & is not normally used for smoking. Now, there are endless subspecies/variations/cultivars of n. tobacum, many consider themselves seperate species from n. tobacum, but are usually very similiar to the botanist, but not to the tobacco afficianado. There are also species bred for decoration rather than for smoke, but you don't sound too interested in that. Check out different variations and naturalized tobacco, and I think Cuban seeds are now available to the public, which would be cool to grow I think.

Here are just a few main species:

Burley - Common smoking tobacco used for cigarrettes
Rustica - Indian/Aztec tobacco
Glauca - Tree Tobacco, I don't think this is used at all for smoke
Langsdorfii - smoke
Iranian? - I forget the botanical name, but they have some distinct kind
Sylvestris - Peace Pipe

Hope this is of some help to you.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Delta9Hippie]
    #5957866 - 08/12/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

thanks that was informitive delta...

u helped out me at least :thumbup:


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Tobacco [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5958236 - 08/13/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Can you chew rustica or use it in a quid then? Is it not good to smoke at all, or are you just supposed to smoke less of it or mix it with another herb?


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Tobacco [Re: AKSE]
    #5958263 - 08/13/06 01:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

u can chew rustica, and swallow the juice. fijians did when i got my rustica there, and they would trip for 3 hours at least. they said if u did it for a while and slowly upped your dosage, the nausea would go away. not in those exact words, but thats how I perceived it.

I believe amazon indian tribes, particularly the shipibo and nearby tribes, considered rustica to be almost as holy as ayahuasca. Ayahuasca being the mother spirit, and rustica being the child spirit (child of ayah).


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Tobacco [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5958277 - 08/13/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Is it neccissary to swallow the juice to feel effects, or can you just spit it out like normal chewing tobacco? Why do you spit out the juice in the first place, just because of the nausia or because commercial tobacco has fiberglass in the chew?


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Tobacco [Re: AKSE]
    #5958394 - 08/13/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

both of those sound about right for why u wouldnt wanna swallow.

u can get a nicotine buzz from a quid, and u could probably get "there" if u had enough.

try this if u have enough rustica to try, roll up a regular cig, and light it up just puffing. its gonna be really harsh but take the biggest drag u can and let it out, see how u feel, u may need to take two to get "there" but no more than that should be smoked if your feeling dizzy. you can then clip the end off and save the rest for another time.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Tobacco [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5958846 - 08/13/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to try this once my rustica starts growing.

5 stars to you :afro:


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Offlinengnyus
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Re: Tobacco [Re: AKSE]
    #5960555 - 08/13/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Don't forget N. attenuata, a.k.a. coyote tobacco, grows as a wild weed in northern California, but doesn't produce signifigant amount of nicotine until stressed, after stressed produces quite a bit of nicotine (though nothing like N. rustica) and tastes quite sweet when smoked.


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5966630 - 08/15/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

N.rustica and N.glauca are both smoked. I read an article somewhere about smoking very very large cigars of N.glauca during Amazonian Ayahuasca rituals. I've grown rustica and glauca. N.glauca is supprisingly hardy. It needs care to really thrive though. It contains an analog of nicotine called anabastinine (probably misspelled) anyways, the seeds stay viable pretty much for ever. I have Glauca and rustica seeds that you can have if you want. Just p.m. me if interested.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Tobacco [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #5966809 - 08/15/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i think smoking is prolly the better option.
commercial tobacco gets treated, homegrown has alot more nicotine in it.
its possible to OD and even die on nicotine, but this is much harder to do if u smoke it because u are likely to pass out before getting enuff to do actual damage.


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Invisibleshamantra
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5967035 - 08/15/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yes exactly, curing is important,. here is a link to a good webpage for tobacco growing that explains how to build curing chambers and cure the tobacco in a good way, also good info on growing tobacco

http://www.coffinails.com/


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5967227 - 08/15/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yeah but then u get regular weak tobacco.
personaly id prefer to simply dry it and have a shamanic smoke,
u cant buy that in the shops :smile:


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5967424 - 08/15/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome! That's definitely of some help.

So is it n rustica the strongest of them all then? I have a peice about that's about a centimeter by a centimeter big, that's almost dry. Would this be enough to try a test smoke on? I'm really not sure, i've heard too many "be careful or you die" posts and don't want to OD.

And is there a place online to get a variety of different kinds of seeds? More than just rustica and tobaccum, because you say there are many different types in the tobaccum family. Thanks all!


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InvisibleBlueDruid
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5968684 - 08/16/06 05:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt whether you'd get any affect from a cm2 of tobacco leaf, regardless of the species.

I don't know if its convenient for you but www.chilternseeds.co.uk is where I got my tobacco seeds from & they had a few varieties.


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: BlueDruid]
    #5969274 - 08/16/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

A square centimeter of bud still gets me plenty ripped  :cool: just making sure.

So a question about yellowing. I let it flower then yellow? Or just keep it growing and growing until the changing season makes it turn yellow? I'm already starting to get a bit of yellow on the bottom leaves, but it's also flowering very large right now.. really pretty flowers too.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5969385 - 08/16/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

actualy u have to take off the leafs wile its flowering.
idealy u take off the flowers so more energy is put into the nicotine production.
then they need to be dried in a well ventilated, at least shaded place.
no heat should be used.


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5969507 - 08/16/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I assume it would be a good idea to take the flowers off of all but one plant so you can have one producing seeds?

If you take the flowers off,how long untill you start harvesting the leaves?You mentioned taking the leaves off while its flowering then you mentioned taking the flowers off,so I thought I would ask.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Tobacco [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #5969892 - 08/16/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

im not sure, but offhand id guess u take up to 2/3rds of the leafs off
and let it grow some more.

at some point it will slow its growth and thats when harvest time would be over.

as for seeds, 1 plant will yield several grams of the stuff, enuff for a small farm.


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #5970093 - 08/16/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the info!


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Mad_Larkin said:  Death is just a thang.
:clementine:
MrJellineck said:  Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about.
sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat... :snowman:


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #5970657 - 08/16/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So i'm guessing there are no books or compendiums about tobacco that many people know of? It's just crazy there are so many pot/mushroom/psychedelic chemistry like books out there, and so few on tobacco, one of the biggest cash crops in the world.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5971578 - 08/16/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

n. rustica: most pontent, rough tasting, euphoric smoke;
n. tobbaccum: regular cig smoke, peculiar strong flavor;
n. glauca: sweet taste, euphoric effects but not as strong as the other two.
i have tried them all personally, my favourites are rustica and glauca.


FH


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Re: Tobacco [Re: felixhigh]
    #5972137 - 08/17/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've only been growing tobacco this year and only 2 plants (poor germination rate) but some folk I knew in Italy grow tobacco commercially &, if I remember them right, they said they pick the bottom leaves early on (possibly when they yellow or flower but I'm not sure) & this encourages it to grow more & put out more leaves. Slugs ate most of my bottom leaves but I've picked off, say, the bottom third some but not all of which were yellowy. I probably did this too late as the new leaves it put out don't look likely to make any decent size.

I have seen mention of a book on tobacco cultivation, I think possibly on this forum, but I can't remember the name. I've just done an internet search & found http://www.coffinails.com which looks useful.


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: BlueDruid]
    #5974763 - 08/17/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Good stuff! So how much would you say to smoke of some uncured, very quickly dried leaf, that was picked before it yellowed and before the plant flowered? That would be about the most potent it could get right?


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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5975183 - 08/18/06 05:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

as i understand it it wuld have up to 10 times the ammount of nicotine
that commercial tobacco has.

pack a hash pipe, or smaller and take shallow puffs.


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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5975210 - 08/18/06 05:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No idea, I haven't tried mine yet as its still drying. If you're not sure how much to try just roll a wee cigarette with it & if it's too potent stop smoking half way through.


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Re: Tobacco [Re: BlueDruid]
    #5975921 - 08/18/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I picked mine during flowering and just let the stuff dry out on its own and that's all she wrote. YOu can smoke the flowers as well.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #5977307 - 08/18/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well good stuff! I have a pic of a bowl of tobacco that i've harvested early, before she started flowering. I'll put it on tomorrow after my upload resets. It didn't turn very brown, or even yellow for that matter. It's still a very smooth smoke, sorta tastes like salvia but with something different. Definitely potent too  :grin: I took a couple pieces equaling around an inch squared and stuffed it into my pipe and tried it.


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OfflineHrethic
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5978123 - 08/19/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)



A small amount, but enough for quite a few bong/bowl tokes. Thinking about lining the inside of a blunt with some...


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Hrethic]
    #5978154 - 08/19/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:smile:


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