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OfflineShroomFan
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Registered: 03/12/04
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What is Enlightment?
    #5956058 - 08/12/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have my own formulation of what it could be, I dont really think there is a right or wrong answer but am curious as what input my fellow Shromerites have to give. Thanks Much LOVE to all


--------------------
Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa
∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind
Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: ShroomFan]
    #5956336 - 08/12/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's when you get a BJ while taking a dump........... wait no, that's a lumpkin. Haha, sorry, I couldn't help it.

I've often thought of that question myself. Reality is, most people will have a different definition of it. I think enlightenment is an understanding of how the universe functions without the predilections set in place since our birth, without human bias, essentially, without a perspective (because all perspectives are subjective). I don't think enlightenment is even possible, at least in this life. Certainly there are people who are more "enlightened" than others, but that still does not come close to enlightenment itself. I think there can be "glimpses" into the enlightened state, but no more than glimpses are acheivable in this life. I'll give this some more thought and respond again later.


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: What is Enlightment? *DELETED* [Re: ShroomScape]
    #5956354 - 08/12/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5956659 - 08/12/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No one knows what it is, not even sages. It can't be known, you can only be it. You are it.


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5956871 - 08/12/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The best way I've ever heard it put:
Hindu enlightenment: You're dead, finally. Only took 472 tries.
Taoist enlightenment: You realize that a tree is not a tree. It simply is.
Buddhist enlightenment: You realize that a tree is not a tree. However, for ease of conversation with everyone else, you're going to call it a tree anyway.

Basically, enlightenment means a full release from the dualities of man. There is no longer good or evil in your mind, no up or down, no top of bottom... things simply exist. You do not devide one thing from another. Further details only muddy the waters, and are truely not that important. You see the full picture of the entire world, and how even the simplest, tiny structures play almost obviously huge roles to almost everything else.

No one can really tell you what it is though... I just regurgitated some stuff from the tao te ching and Confucian teachings. Those who know can not say, and those who say do not know.

If you want to get started in trying to reach on it, think about this... what is the sound of one hand clapping?
-or-
Master Lin was away from the monestary. While he was gone, a group of raiders seeking his advice stole into the monestary. They took the other monks, and began executing them one by one, because none could tell them what enlightenment was. Master Lin finally returned to face the corpses of his brothers, and the raiders. The raiders held a sword to his throat, and told him to explain what enlightenment was to them.

He looked at them, smiled, and said, "moo."

The raiders left.


Think about these for a good part of your life and maybe you'll hit enlightenment :smile:


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinedrloomis82
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: wiggles]
    #5956880 - 08/12/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I couldn’t have done a better job explaining it, brother – and that’s saying a lot; I was a philosophy major!


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: drloomis82]
    #5957280 - 08/12/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What is it that knows? 
Where is this sense of a knower, when the knower itself is being known?

Besides, what is reality but a massive preconception? 
Open to what it is.  It's really easy, it's right NOW.

Just be aware man, no words can explain it to you, so you may as well just pay attention.  Not to anything in particular, just ... :sunny:



:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (08/12/06 07:02 PM)


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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5957580 - 08/12/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i really don't think enlightenment is that easily solved, nor do i think it's one specific thing. Everyone's idea of enlightenment may be different. To me, enlightenment is gaining knowledge as you grow older. Understanding yourself and the world around you better everyday. It's an ongoing process. Nobody will reach the end of enlightenment, its more of a living/growing process.


Edited by ArcofaJourney (08/12/06 09:00 PM)


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5957900 - 08/12/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In a nutshell, id say that enlightenment is basicaly looking at yourself in the mirror for the first time and knowing that that is you, no questions asked.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #5958023 - 08/12/06 11:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if you want some good reading on it read from a very enlightened person like han-shan. tho i shouldnt really say very because there arnt levels of enlightenment either your there or your not and the difference is so vast it cant be comprehended. its like being in a room with no windows and never seeing anything on the outside that room all you know is that room. i hope you understand what im saying i have a hard time explaining shit


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Edited by thedudenj (08/12/06 11:57 PM)


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OfflineEreignis
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well [Re: thedudenj]
    #5958251 - 08/13/06 01:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I was going to chime in with my own spin on what these people are saying. But instead, I want to say:

Don't ask that silly question! Just meditate! Whatever you think enlightenment is, you can attain it for yourself! It's really not that difficult, it just requires lots of practice. Take fourty minutes every day to meditate. Honestly, just reading books, even if they were written by siddhas, won't get you very far. Meditate! Practice! Practice! Then you won't be asking this question any more, I guarantee it.

Love, ereignis


--------------------
Reason tatters
The forces tear loose from the axis
Searchlight casting
For faults in the clouds of delusion

Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds


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OfflineTonguesInAspic
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Re: well [Re: Ereignis]
    #5958551 - 08/13/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To me enlightenment is having full control of your reality and being able to change it whenever you like. I believe everyone and everything has it's own reality and to become the master of your reality is to be enlightened.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: well [Re: TonguesInAspic]
    #5958727 - 08/13/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

raw light dances
no shadows added
like this.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineCelaeno
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Re: well [Re: TonguesInAspic]
    #5958730 - 08/13/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps like a level 5 trip?

I can only really agree with what Ereignis is saying though.


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InvisibleGr33nTree73
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Celaeno]
    #5958757 - 08/13/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

to me its when everything is going perfect and could be no more perfect and you are completely happy... much like when im with the girl friend or last night when i was in the mountains drunk and really high with my friend laughing at nothing and pissing on the tent


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OfflineShroomFan
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #5958802 - 08/13/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I ask the question to get input from others..opinions are like a bouquet of flowers..although sometimes they smell like fish

I have my own opinion






oh and I can definately clap with one hand


I think everything is possible so what can you do to surprise me


--------------------
Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa
∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind
Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5958804 - 08/13/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ArcofaJourney said:
i really don't think enlightenment is that easily solved





Yes it is.

Quote:


nor do i think it's one specific thing. Everyone's idea of enlightenment may be different.






The idea, perhaps.  But what is aware of this idea?  What is an idea?  Where does it come from? Where does it go?  What is an idea divided by 3?

Quote:



To me, enlightenment is gaining knowledge as you grow older. Understanding yourself and the world around you better everyday. It's an ongoing process. Nobody will reach the end of enlightenment, its more of a living/growing process.




In Zen we have a saying, "The Buddha is only half way there" 

Practice is just beginning.  Always starting over with nothing.  Its like trying to describe the texture of sand to someone who has never experienced sand.  The experience itself is much more vast than any vessel of linguistics.

So I reiterate,

Just pay attention.  :laugh:

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5958841 - 08/13/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It is something you may look for your whole life and never find.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5958996 - 08/13/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
It is something you may look for your whole life and never find.




Anyone that does that is trying too hard, or not trying in the right places. It is already here, it's already been here and it will never go away. If someone is looking for something 'extra' then they will just become befuddled.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959080 - 08/13/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
It is something you may look for your whole life and never find.




Anyone that does that is trying too hard, or not trying in the right places. It is already here, it's already been here and it will never go away. If someone is looking for something 'extra' then they will just become befuddled.




"Seeking but not finding the house builder, I traveled through the round of countless births. Oh, painful is birth ever and again! House builder you have now been seen. You shall not build the house again. Your rafters have been broken down; your ridge-pole is demolished too. My mind has now attained the unformed nibbana and reached the end of every kind of craving." (Dh. 153-54.)


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959099 - 08/13/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, but it is very possible to attain in one birth for anyone, no matter how big of a scoundrel. It doesn't have to take birth upon birth upon birth.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959123 - 08/13/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think that you are enlightened?


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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Offlineavapxia
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959126 - 08/13/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Close your eyes and see
the silence


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: avapxia]
    #5959386 - 08/13/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You people are elaborating on the concept way too much (stating what enlightenment leads to, rather than what it is). Enlightenment is not a process or a characteristic or a life-philosophy, and it becomes confusing when you try to describe it as such.
Enlightenment is when you see something as it really is for the first time, like lighting a match in a dark room.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #5959426 - 08/13/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lysergic_Milkman said:
You people are elaborating on the concept way too much (stating what enlightenment leads to, rather than what it is). Enlightenment is not a process or a characteristic or a life-philosophy, and it becomes confusing when you try to describe it as such.
Enlightenment is when you see something as it really is for the first time, like lighting a match in a dark room.




Then the match blows out and your left again, in the dark, with nothing more then a faint memory of what once was - is... the forgotten truth.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959491 - 08/13/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
Do you think that you are enlightened?




How can enlightenment be enlightened? Would it care? Does it matter?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959505 - 08/13/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So you *ARE* enlightenment ?  :confused:


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959627 - 08/13/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's not that I specifically am enlightenment, everything (and everyone) is. Enlightenment is the nature of the universe and all its subtle energies.


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959652 - 08/13/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt anyone here is truly enlightened - moksha (the reaching of enlightenment) is supposed to be fatal. That is why the great teachers are considered to be so great.

They had their moksha, and chose to stay and guide others.


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959688 - 08/13/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
It's not that I specifically am enlightenment, everything (and everyone) is. Enlightenment is the nature of the universe and all its subtle energies.




I view enlightenment as a level of the self at which a true understanding of the universe is attained. The universe IS. Enlightenment is about the self, the universe doesn't reach enlightenment, people do.



Definitions of enlightenment on the Web:

education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge

Nirvana: (Hinduism and Buddhism) the beatitude that transcends the cycle of reincarnation; characterized by the extinction of desire and suffering and individual consciousness


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959744 - 08/13/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Self sees Self.

Notice the light bulb was already on, it never turns on.  It is a light bulb without an on/off switch.

:shrug:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thatiAM]
    #5959846 - 08/13/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You are good at avoiding questions.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5959947 - 08/13/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
You are good at avoiding questions.




Would it help if I said I was majoring in pre-law?  :lol:

(I'm not...but still :smile:)


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: What is Enlightment? *DELETED* [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5959987 - 08/13/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (08/13/06 05:42 PM)


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5960345 - 08/13/06 08:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

time is an illusion


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: thedudenj]
    #5961612 - 08/14/06 02:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

it is said if you see the face of god you will go mad.
it is said that the boddhisattvas forego nibbana
(not enlightenment nibbanna - different terms)
in favor of returning to help on this plane of existence.

many of us are mad and it works quit well for us and we also are being helpful instead of blissed out (in nibbanna?) which is another possibility.

go figgure.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5961616 - 08/14/06 02:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, as long as you're KIND, it doesn't matter if you're "crazy!"  :smile:


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: What is Enlightment? *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5961939 - 08/14/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5962071 - 08/14/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

difficult to be good


kurtz -"the horror, the horror"
(from apocalypse now)
what face did he see?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #5962111 - 08/14/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Someone asked:

"The idea, perhaps. But what is aware of this idea? What is an idea? Where does it come from? Where does it go? What is an idea divided by 3?"

1) We are aware this idea. 2) An idea is an original thought 3) It comes from your brain 4) It goes wherever you take it, to change the world, or to put an extra ingredient in pizza 5) An idea divided by 3 is something like 14

Quote:

Lysergic_Milkman said:
You people are elaborating on the concept way too much (stating what enlightenment leads to, rather than what it is). Enlightenment is not a process or a characteristic or a life-philosophy, and it becomes confusing when you try to describe it as such.
Enlightenment is when you see something as it really is for the first time, like lighting a match in a dark room.




This sort of just opened up a can of worms for me.

I was looking at different things in my room in this view, and got a sense of nowness, it was different-strange/beautiful. This will be wonderful to go off on in my head while tripping.
(go off on in- that's a lot of pro...something. fuck i forget the name describing these word types. HELP!)


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


Edited by beatnicknick (08/14/06 09:32 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5962218 - 08/14/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

freshness, anyone?

this is a well marketted and elusive commodity.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinehypermale
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5962390 - 08/14/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It is the certainty that the theme of the movie "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" is true. Satisfaction with what you have not dissatisfaction with not having what you want. Or, knowing that what you have is really exactly what you want.


--------------------

WTF?


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5962461 - 08/14/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:
Quote:



In Zen we have a saying, "The Buddha is only half way there" 


So I reiterate,

Just pay attention.  :laugh:

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:




could you please describe to me the meaning behind this saying, i beleived the term buddha meant one who has blossomed to their highest potential, thus in itself is the definition of getting there.

i know i haven't outsmarted anyone or anything by saying that, so id like to know, thanks




There are many meanings behind this saying.  Generally though, Zen sayings are to help clarify the students mind when it is caught in confusion.  There are multiple levels to this saying, but at the shallowest, it is to help students keep practicing through those "I am enlightened!" experiences that every serious meditator has 10 times a day. For a deeper explanation, look at the four great vows in my signature. 

There is no end to the Buddha way.  Every being has limitless potential for realization. 

:heart: Peace :heart:

:hippie:


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What is Enlightment? [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #5962649 - 08/14/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think its that transformation of being that catapults you higher than your current state, transformation is usually more than just insight but a metaphysical transformation due to conditioning,


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