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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5970601 - 08/16/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I don't believe emotions are God's work. I don't believe in God to start with. That doesn't change the truth that negative emotions can be a beneficial part of us if we learn to master them.
Once "mastered" how do you call them negative?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban


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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Icelander]
#5970723 - 08/16/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't. I used that word because that's what Dalai Lama called them.
I see emotions as neutral from a good/bad point of view, though some are more pleasant to experience than others.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5971814 - 08/17/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why?
If emotion can be considered epistemologically valuable, then why wouldn't, "I felt the presence of God" be a valid argument?
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--


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Emotions are negative when someone is blinded by them and cannot act any longer in a manner appropriate to a situation.
-------------------- ...or something
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cybrbeast
Up, then down, then...



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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5972152 - 08/17/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I agree. I think our society would be a much better, happier and more productive place if there were less negative emotions.
So, in that world, if you saw a poor person living on the street, minus negative emotion about it, you'd ignore them and go on your way.
Meanwhile, minus the misery of poverty, the poor person wouldn't try to find a job or go to school because living on the street doesn't feel negative any more than living in a nice home.
Doesn't seem like a better place to me.
Without ugly, there can be no pretty.
I think people would still have goals and ambition. Everybody could be happy, but there could be different levels in happines just like there are now. So you could strive for a higher level of happiness
--------------------
futuretribe.space
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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If emotion can be considered epistemologically valuable, then why wouldn't, "I felt the presence of God" be a valid argument?
I still don't follow. Emotions are epistemologically important because we all experience them, barring maybe a tiny fraction of us with deep psychological pathologies.
Besides, I don't deny that what believers feel is God. It may well be. But since there's no way to know and since it IS known that humans have strong tendencies toward self-deception (There's a sucker born every minute - P. T. Barnum) and since each religion claims a different, often conflicting version of the one True God, the God experience is more likely psychological than metaphysical.
That's not to say religious people are suckers, but they do often make decisions contrary to their own interests because they're based on emotion instead of facts.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: cybrbeast]
#5972277 - 08/17/06 08:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think people would still have goals and ambition. Everybody could be happy, but there could be different levels in happines just like there are now. So you could strive for a higher level of happiness
You don't scratch an itch you can't feel, even if it's really there. The ouch of the itch, not the satisfaction of the scratch, is what motivates us.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: jungjedi]
#5972350 - 08/17/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sleepy said: buddhism really fails because they dont believe in god

Quote:
jungjedi said: thats what im saying.budah,YOU FAT FUCK.
Buddha wasn't fat. You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about, but you are assured you are right, just the same.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5972372 - 08/17/06 09:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Denying any emotion is to deny Truth.
Perhaps, but that says nothing about becoming aware of oneself and one's surroundings, and dissolving the obstructions within one's mind that create suffering in the first place.
Negative emotions are reactions agansit reality as it has presented itself. Existing in an emotional state in which one cannot accept reality for what it is, is detrimental to one's ability to effect change. Not being centered is dangerous.
Quote:
Negative emotion can lead to positive things. Anger at something unjust can trigger activism to get it changed, for example. The trick is to harness and control emotion and make it serve you rather than the other way around.
The real trick is to utilize negative emotions as an indicator of which specific aspect of one's mind is producing the negative emotion in the first place. Negative emotion, pain, and suffering are pretty much the same exact thing, if not, they are all correlated, and pain is a signal that something is wrong.
Anger might cause someone to take action that might have consequences that are to be desired, but that does not mean that existing in a state of anger is the most effective manner in which to cause that, or better, change. If anything, it clouds one's sense of reality as it can be directly perceived, which means that one isn't more focused on reality, which implies that one will not be as capable of changing reality (how do you change something most effectively if you don't know what it is that you are changing?)
I don't buy the angle that negative emotions are necessary, and that we simply must "control" them (good luck with that ). Just as one can prevent physical pain by not sticking one's hand in a fire, so can one not cause mental suffering by allowing a limited mental construct that is no match for awareness to inflict pain on oneself.
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Besides, if you managed to remove all negative emotion from all of humanity, we would all end up in squalor, diseased, and dying because it wouldn't bother us. It is BECAUSE of negative emotion that man is motivated to improve himself.
Willing to substantiate this conclusion? I myself tend to not act out of fear, anger, or dissatisfaction, and others as well, and, yet, I am constantly seeking to improve myself and my surroundings. It might not seem to be this way if one is unable to realize the actual causes of one's suffering by bringing awareness within oneself, but those who do not operate with negative emotion to such a degree, or at all, still seek improvement and change.
After all, change is constant, and accepting reality is accepting change. 
Ultimately, the thought that people only change because they suffer is ignorant, and does not reflect reality. 
Quote:
Yin and yang, you can't have one without the other.
The concept of yin and yang does not apply. The scientific definitions of "positive" and "negative" are not applicable within the realm of emotional state of being, and perhaps this is the root of your perpsective on the subject.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5972497 - 08/17/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I don't. I used that word because that's what Dalai Lama called them.
I see emotions as neutral from a good/bad point of view, though some are more pleasant to experience than others.
IMO he was speaking about something else. He was opening the door to all the techniques possible for altering our emotional states and creating change and continuing our evolution. He was (unlike many religions) saying, our way is not the only way and just maybe we can look at some non-religious or mystical techniques that can be just as valuable as what we have done in the past. But maybe I am reading that into this short quote.
I can see your point also.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5973091 - 08/17/06 02:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Denying any emotion is to deny Truth.
it IS known that humans have strong tendencies toward self-deception
Emotions are not reliable source of information, but since we all experience them they're a great way to acquire information? 
I see emotions as not much more than alert signals that usually impede "rational thought"; a psychological remnant from early stages of primate evolution when fast and frugal information was needed. Having written a short paper on psychological heuristics, I can say their is empirical evidence that emotions lead people to make poor decisions. When a person makes a decision based out of anger or hatred, the decision probably will be extreme, detrimental to the decision maker and others, and irrational. An example of this would be a husband murdering his wife after finding her in bed with another man.
How an emotion could be even be used as a criterion for truth, other than an indication of some psychic problem, is even more baffling to me.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (08/17/06 02:58 PM)
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...

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If hate is an emotion, then surely you would consider love to be an emotion as well, and as such, it tends to lead people to make poor decisions?
For whatever reason or evolutionary purpose, we have emotions and feelings. They are constantly in flux. It's only when we let them own us and we don't own them through mindfulness and non-attachment that they can become dangerous IMO.
-------------------- "Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Emotions are not reliable source of information, but since we all experience them they're a great way to acquire information?
No, no... emotions are not a reliable source of information, but that they are real is a reliable conclusion.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: I see emotions as not much more than alert signals that usually impede "rational thought"; a psychological remnant from early stages of primate evolution when fast and frugal information was needed. Having written a short paper on psychological heuristics, I can say their is empirical evidence that emotions lead people to make poor decisions. When a person makes a decision based out of anger or hatred, the decision probably will be extreme, detrimental to the decision maker and others, and irrational.
I think this expression reflects reality, and I agree fully. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Interesting Dalai Lama quote [Re: Diploid]
#5975433 - 08/18/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: No, no... emotions are not a reliable source of information, but that they are real is a reliable conclusion.
Most certainly. One must realize that, even as they are real, emotions arise from a cause, and that the cause is not the external situation. Even if reacting to the external situation in such a manner (with anger, or fear, for example), does bring one to action and behavior that produces a desired result (being angry with the ignorance exhibited by an elected official causes one to run agansit that official for office, win, and effect the change that one prefers in policy and execution; or perhaps being afraid when someone pulls a gun at you brings you to do what is requested to survive), it still does not necessitate that the reaction (with anger, or fear, once again) to the situation at hand is the most effective or appropriate. One can run for office and win, or hand over one's money at gun point without being in an imbalanced, suffering emotional state.
In fact, maintaining a higher degree of awareness will ensure that one's experience is of upmost quality. As there is but one moment in which we live and experience, this is crucial, regardless of the circumstances in our life situation. Having a clear, cool, centered mind, immersed in consciousness, ripe with experience and fufillment all the while... well, it just is as it should be. 
Like, why suffer when you can understand, man? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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