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hypermale
TwoSpirits

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 79
Loc: Mile High
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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oven fractional sterilization experiement.
#5951830 - 08/10/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am currently conducting the following experiment. I acquired 24 1000ml Erlenmeyer flasks for free. I do not have a canner or PC and have always used a large pasta pot. The flasks are too tall so this is what I am doing.
I checked my oven's hysteresis. Set for 300 it fluctuated from 300 to 325. So I decided this would work. I prepared three flasks with popcorn as per the tek with the great pictures I found here. After soaking overnight some fermentation started and I assume some endospores germinated. After simmering/boiling for 45mins I rinsed in cold water in a colander very thoroughly and covered with a paper towel and let drain for 30mins. I divided a 2lb bag between three flasks I added 50 mls of 0.3% H2O2 to account for the loss that would occur in the over (from earlier experimentation) and covered with tyvek and then 1 inch batting (left over from a reupholster I did on a chair) and secured with wire ties.
Flask 1 was immediately place in a 300 degree pre-heated oven for 1 hour. cooled to room temp and inoculated. Nothing has happened yet.\
Flask 2 and 3 were left for 24 hrs then placed in a 300 degree oven for one hour and allowed to cool. Flask two was inoculated.
Flask 3 was left for another 24 hrs then oven sterilized and inoculated.
I am awaiting the results.
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WTF?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: hypermale]
#5951911 - 08/10/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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You best go back and read the teks. Also, at least once per month some new guy comes in and tries that. It always fails. You also should be using the search engine rather than starting a new thread for every idea you have. You can't sterilize in the oven. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5953217 - 08/11/06 07:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Keep me updated. My weapon of choice is the pasta pot. I've successfuly done PF style cakes. And now I'm currently giving WBS a shot.
But, I don't do it in the oven... I use the stove. I'm not sure what dif that makes but RR is an experinced grower so I tend to take his advise pretty seriously. I am guessing based on the research I've done on pastuerization that the center of your subs won't get hot enough if you do it in the oven. I could be wrong.
So how are things going now?
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: hypermale]
#5953244 - 08/11/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not going to say that it won't work, but I would consider using WBS or rye before popcorn as a substrate. Also, why add peroxide to the flasks before heating?
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Quick WBS Prep
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hypermale
TwoSpirits

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 79
Loc: Mile High
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: FooMan]
#5953376 - 08/11/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I used h202 to sterilize the water. I'm at 5280 ft above sea level (water boils at less than 212), so I figure adding peroxide will add a little extra protection. Also, I thought it may kill a few endospores on the corn before being destroyed by the heat. I distributed the water around the grain through use of manual agitation. I use h202 water for almost everything except where spores are involved and have had very good results. I also figured it couldn't hurt but this may be wrong.
Due to my altitude, I need to use a pressure canner to achieve the higher psi for sterilization and they are expensive. I realize I won't get any higher temps in the oven due to the presence of liquid water in the grain. I also put the flasks in a deep pan due to fears of exploding corn. I figure a water bath would be ok also.
My main problem is the size of these cool-looking and cost-free flasks I have. They would require a very large pressure canner.
Of course, the saturated corn will only get to boiling temp (<212) even in the 300 degree oven but the oven temp will affect the evaporation rate. I figure the biggest problem isn't sterilization but moisture content. This is the main variable I'm attempting to isolate with this experiment.
This is obviously too small a sample to prove much scientifically and there are way too many variables to control. But the cost for me is mainly time and I have a lot of that, so I figure I haven't much to lose.
If this works (I realize it has a very high chance for failure) I will try wbs also.
I personally thought this was interesting but apparently other's don't. They also probably don't live at a high altitude.
I can hardly wait to see what flaming I get for this long post.
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WTF?
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: hypermale]
#5953421 - 08/11/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its not that its not an interesting idea, its just not a unique one. Like RR said, we get this on a regular basis... people come in with crazy ideas to get around using a PC, but at the end of the day eventually all realize no matter how they do it, its just simply not consistent, or doesn't work at all.
There's a reason so many cultivators, hobbiests and commercial alike, use pressure cookers or an autoclave... because it works, and as long as you use it correctly, works nearly 100% of the time.
You might find that your methods work for you, and if they do, more power to you... but it won't work for everyone consistently, and that's a fact. Every time somebody comes up with a plan like this, it just fuels the fire for those that think they can get away with half-assing things and ignoring conventional wisdom and collective experience of thousands of growers over decades of time... they in turn fail, and get discouraged or confused, waste time, and materials. We're just looking out.
Brown rice flour, can be sterilized by steam without pressure. Even still, anybody who goes that route, can expect some hit and miss success. If you attempt to steam sterilize a grain, be it popcorn, rye, wbs, anything, you will have a very low to nonexistent success rate, simply due to the physical structure of the grains themselves. You've already mentioned you're well above sea level, so you've got things stacked against you already. You can still prepare BRF cakes, crumble them, and use bulk growing methods. I've turned a dozen half pint PF cakes into 1/4lb of dry yield by spawning them in the past. So you're not neccessarily at a disadvantage if you can't use grains... apply your creativity elsewhere where it matters!
You might also find that if you look around at thrift stores, ask around family and friends, that you can get an old pressure cooker for cheap, or even free. Mine is a heavy duty metal to metal seal, capable at running safely at 20-25psi, can hold two dozen half pints or seven quart jars, and I didn't pay a dime for it. A friend of mine who is also a landlord, found it abandoned in the basement of one of his properties, and was glad to have me take it off his hands. Others have found them in unlikely places; older relatives homes who used to use them back in the day, even metal scrap yards! So feel free to experiment, consider sticking with BRF that's proven with only steam sterilization, and keep an ear out in the mean time for something you can afford. You'll be glad you did.
Its not flaming or singling you out, just understand when we say you're probably wasting your time, we're speaking from experience and the observed experience of many others who have also wasted their time.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: creamcorn]
#5953574 - 08/11/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The short answer is: Without pressure, water can't exist in a liquid state at a temperature above 212F/100C. Therefore, if you heat the contents of your jars to 250F without pressure, the simple fact is the grains will be drier than they were when you removed them from the bag you purchased them in. All the moisture will have evaporated off, leaving the grains totally dry and useless.
At 5000' elevation, simply add 1/3 extra time to your pressure cooking cycle and continue to use 15 psi. In other words, instead of cooking for two hours, use three hours. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5953678 - 08/11/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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^^^^^ True that.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5954009 - 08/11/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: At 5000' elevation, simply add 1/3 extra time to your pressure cooking cycle and continue to use 15 psi. In other words, instead of cooking for two hours, use three hours. RR
wouldnt that be 2 hours and 40minutes
ive never known a Rabbit to slack on procedure.
Edited by Omnicracker (08/11/06 02:27 PM)
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: oven fractional sterilization experiement. [Re: Omnicracker]
#5955778 - 08/12/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Some of my WBS jars are colonizing fairly well after using fractional sterilization. It's still a little too early to tell how successful they will be. I just cooked up several more jars & knocked em'up the other day.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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