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OfflineFoul_Breath
Mega Sentience
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Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 90
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Dopamine.
    #5950656 - 08/10/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hi. Well, I'm going to college to become a neuropharmacologist, and I thought that I might as well get a head start by asking you guys a few questions since some of you seem to be quite knowledgeable/intelligent. Btw mods if this is the wrong forum to be posting in/too outlandish :wink: just tell me.

So everybody knows what happens when the dopamine system is overstimulated (e.g- cocaine, nicotine, etc...). The receptors basically withdraw into the neuron body (don't shout at me plz I know this is a dramatically oversimplified version of what actually happens :laugh:). I had basicallly 2 questions about this:

1. Does the withdrawal of these receptors occur because of the individual choice of the neurons or does the brain as a whole send out a message to start withdrawing receptors?

2. What chemical is released within the neuron, or sent out by the brain to tell these receptors to withdraw?

This is basically my goal. Rather than flooding the brain with a random chemical that blocks the re-uptake of dopamine, but have the receptors withdraw, why not make a drug that not only keep the receptors functional, but also blocks the re-uptake of dopamine, but isn't easily broken down by the brain. Sure, there will probably be a high chance of OD, etc... but imagine a coke high that could last for 6-12 hours. You'd probably need a long ass while to recover though. Anway, those are my thoughts and I'd appreciate any feedback - negative and positive.


--------------------
www.GeniusIntelligence.com
Shrooms are fun ^_________^


Edited by Foul_Breath (08/10/06 01:46 PM)


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OfflineBlindLemon
waves
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Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 628
Loc: so cal
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Dopamine. [Re: Foul_Breath]
    #5950795 - 08/10/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:goodluck:


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Im a fucking spiral..


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OfflineFoul_Breath
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Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 90
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Dopamine. [Re: BlindLemon]
    #5950798 - 08/10/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

haha thx.


--------------------
www.GeniusIntelligence.com
Shrooms are fun ^_________^


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Offlineevolprim
human
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Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
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Re: Dopamine. [Re: Foul_Breath]
    #5950847 - 08/10/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i wish you luck.

when you do make it, dont forget to make several kilograms before putting it out to fda testing, and send it to all shroomerites


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Offlinerazorbladeshoes
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Registered: 05/17/06
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Re: Dopamine. [Re: Foul_Breath]
    #5950912 - 08/10/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Foul_Breath said:
Hi. Well, I'm going to college to become a neuropharmacologist, and I thought that I might as well get a head start by asking you guys a few questions since some of you seem to be quite knowledgeable/intelligent. Btw mods if this is the wrong forum to be posting in/too outlandish :wink: just tell me.

So everybody knows what happens when the dopamine system is overstimulated (e.g- cocaine, nicotine, etc...). The receptors basically withdraw into the neuron body (don't shout at me plz I know this is a dramatically oversimplified version of what actually happens :laugh:). I had basicallly 2 questions about this:

1. Does the withdrawal of these receptors occur because of the individual choice of the neurons or does the brain as a whole send out a message to start withdrawing receptors?

2. What chemical is released within the neuron, or sent out by the brain to tell these receptors to withdraw?

This is basically my goal. Rather than flooding the brain with a random chemical that blocks the re-uptake of dopamine, but have the receptors withdraw, why not make a drug that not only keep the receptors functional, but also blocks the re-uptake of dopamine, but isn't easily broken down by the brain. Sure, there will probably be a high chance of OD, etc... but imagine a coke high that could last for 6-12 hours. You'd probably need a long ass while to recover though. Anway, those are my thoughts and I'd appreciate any feedback - negative and positive.




The receptors never move.  "Withdrawal" is a term that is used when your body has become used to a stimulus, then the stimulus is taken away.  When your brain is overstimulated with dopamine, it's just overstimulated with dopamine (no receptor changes occur immediately).  Over time days/weeks/months, the receptors on your neurons will downgrade (either reduce in number or availability) until it reaches a point where the stimulus isn't really a stimulus anymore.

Take away the stimulus, and you're left with downgraded receptors.  Even if your dopamine level is normal, they're not binding with enough receptors and you experience "withdrawal".  This is what smokers experience when they stop smoking cold turkey.

That's fairly simplified, but a rough picture.

BTW, there's alot of other chemicals that are already dopamine reuptake inhibitors, like coke and DXM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dopamine_reuptake_inhibitors


Dave


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OfflineFoul_Breath
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Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 90
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Dopamine. [Re: razorbladeshoes]
    #5951210 - 08/10/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the info, but I must not have clearly stated myself. What I meant was, sure, the amount of dopamine could potentially stay at the same level, but due to the "downgraded" receptors, the neuron isn't as stimulated. What I was wondering basically is that doesn't this downgrading process happen somewhat quickly i.e - for example, keep railing lines of coke and eventually you'll just feel like a pile of shit because there are hardly any sites left for the dopamine to bond with. Is there some chemical that can prevent this downgrading/withdrawal of the receptor sites (not actual withdrawal :laugh: as is god i wish i had some drugs)? Because if you could do that, theoretically, you have an effect where every line feels like the first time.

Why does this downgrading/withdrawal happen anway in the first place?


--------------------
www.GeniusIntelligence.com
Shrooms are fun ^_________^


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OfflinesysD
this side up.

Registered: 08/03/06
Posts: 384
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Dopamine. [Re: Foul_Breath]
    #5951660 - 08/10/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think more popular would be a LSD or mescaline type high that only lasts an hour and a half.


--------------------
repeat after me: "i am a strong black woman"

"awwwww, shucky-ducky!"


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Offlineweathereporter88
Male

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 2,274
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Dopamine. [Re: sysD]
    #5951920 - 08/10/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Frequent uses of exogenous chemicals desensitizes receptors because they were no made to handle that amount of neurotransmission. I'd also be curious what specific changes occur to these receptors. Research in this area could help a lot with a lot of drug dependency problems. I might speculate that conductivity may diminish (I dunno , just a guess).


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Dopamine. [Re: sysD]
    #5951941 - 08/10/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Basically, the downregulation occurs due to homeostatic mechanisms. The neurons "realize" there is an overstimulation of dopamine.

It probably occurs via some sort of "second messenger" system. Influxes of calcium etc.

Lots of other things to consider:
1. There is a difference between direct acting dopamine "agonists" and "dopamine releasers".

2. You'll also have to take into account dopamine reuptake.

3. Too much dopamine in specific areas of the brain can be detrimental. As an example, look up the "dopamine hypothesis of Schizophrenia".

4. Referring once again to "homeostasis" there will be changes in other neurotransmitter levels to compensate for increases in dopamine.

5. Lastly there's this little thing called the "blood brain barrier". It often prevents a lot of substances from passing into the brain. Just something to be aware of.

Cheers!


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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