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Phred
Fred's son


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Two arrested in Dearborn
#5949473 - 08/10/06 12:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The US is becoming a police state, I tell you.
These poor shmoes were arrested for buying cell phones.
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/15237015.htm
I wonder if this arrest has anything to do with this?
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1499905
Phred
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5949500 - 08/10/06 12:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: The US is becoming a police state, I tell you.
These poor shmoes were arrested for buying cell phones.
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/15237015.htm
I wonder if this arrest has anything to do with this?
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1499905
Phred
Please...
Quote:
nvestigators going through the car after the pair were pulled over in Marietta also found a map that showed locations of Wal-Mart stores from Ohio through Kentucky, Tennessee and into North and South Carolina, Vessels said.
Thank God and George that we stopped them before they carried out their nefarious plot to blow up our beloved discount superstores...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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They were buying the phones from Wal-Marts. I don't think they were looking to blow them up.
But hey... these are alleged splodeydopes we're talking about, after all. Maybe they were planning on blowing up the Wal-Marts after they'd cleaned them out of cell phones.
Phred
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5949543 - 08/10/06 01:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey, I'm all for blowing up wal-marts...
It'd help eliminate large portions of the uneducated redneck Republican base.
Every little bit helps.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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It'd eliminate a lot more of the Democrat base, though. All those welfare moms who can't afford to shop anywhere else.
Phred
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5949573 - 08/10/06 01:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Heh.
I think every backwoods gun toting bible-thumping redneck in the country votes GWB.
You wouldnt believe the fat slobs I see at my work. They vote Republican for the sole fact that someone told them that if they voted Democrat they would be gay, because every true man likes a Bush.
Honestly, this is your base. If they didnt have the responsibility of electing the most powerful man in the world, it would be laughable.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Lily_Morgan
I'm #1 !!

Registered: 07/05/06
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5949578 - 08/10/06 01:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't know. Honestly, you don't know if they are "poor shmoes" or not. You have to admit buying that many fucking cell phones looks fucking weird, although I have no idea what that has to do with terrorism.
But 600 fucking cell phones? Some kind of a scam is being run.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Heh.
I think every backwoods gun toting bible-thumping redneck in the country votes GWB.
You wouldnt believe the fat slobs I see at my work. They vote Republican for the sole fact that someone told them that if they voted Democrat they would be gay, because every true man likes a Bush.
Honestly, this is your base. If they didnt have the responsibility of electing the most powerful man in the world, it would be laughable.
Where in the hell do you work? Surrounded by fat people, who think they are gay if they dont vote Republican?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Vvellum
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5950021 - 08/10/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: It'd eliminate a lot more of the Democrat base, though. All those welfare moms who can't afford to shop anywhere else.
Phred
You obviously dont visit rural America or the red-states very often.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Lily_Morgan]
#5950110 - 08/10/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think the cell phones could be used for several purposes. They could dispose of the cellphone after one use to avoid being tracked or they could use them as remote detonators.
As an aside, I'll be passing through Dearborn today.
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Redstorm]
#5950221 - 08/10/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
As an aside, I'll be passing through Dearborn today.
You might want to leave your cell phone behind.
Phred
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Redstorm]
#5950235 - 08/10/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Investigators in southeast Ohio said they were working to unravel how two Michigan men charged with supporting terrorism came to have airplane passenger lists and airport security information."
Am I the only one who noticed this little piece of info. Who cares about the cell phones and wallmarts, If they have passanger lists and airport security info, that seems fishy to me. Or am I missing something?
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5950251 - 08/10/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, you are not missing anything. The arrests, of course, were not made simply because these fine folks had bought cell phones. I was being facetious.
The arrests were made because they were involved in money laundering for terrorist organizations. The fact that they had all this other stuff (passenger lists, notes on security scheckpoints, a bunch of cash, and a bunch of cell phones) hints that they may have been involved in more than just money laundering.
Phred
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5950297 - 08/10/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh sorry, I don't pick up on subtleties on the net so well. I take things literally, but I guess that will pass with the more time I spend here.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Vvellum
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5963277 - 08/14/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5963288 - 08/14/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, lack of evidence. I hope they kept the phones though and that somebody watches these fuckers until they are dead. And all of their friends.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5963319 - 08/14/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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no evidence. yes.
I'm sure if there was anything the prosecutor would have gone through with the case and gained name recognition has the guy who helped save America and was tough on the evil terrorists. But nope, zero evidence of wrong-doing whatsoever. Evidence is important in these matters, zappaisgod.
and on a similar note, FBI: No links to terrorism in Caro cell phone case
two more examples of hysteria and ineffective-profiling, in my opinion.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5963322 - 08/14/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yeah, lack of evidence. I hope they kept the phones though and that somebody watches these fuckers until they are dead. And all of their friends.
What if lack of evidence simply means they're innocent
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Basilides]
#5963339 - 08/14/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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What if it means not enough to prosecute on? So, what were they dong with all those phones? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5963409 - 08/14/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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If they're terrorists, why is the constitution protecting them.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Basilides]
#5963465 - 08/14/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why? indeed.
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twiggedoubt
twigburst


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5963517 - 08/14/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You sure have a lot of faith in our government, your pretty fucking gullible either that or just really dumb.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: twiggedoubt]
#5963568 - 08/14/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nah, I just been around awhile and haven't seen anybody who didn't deserve it get fucked by the gov and quite a few who did deserve it get off. Anti-gov hysteria is de rigeur for children, druggies, and professional journos but it is mostly misplaced.
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Vvellum
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5965738 - 08/15/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: What if it means not enough to prosecute on? So, what were they dong with all those phones? Inquiring minds want to know.
re-selling them. called entrepreneurship.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5965791 - 08/15/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Nah, I just been around awhile and haven't seen anybody who didn't deserve it get fucked by the gov and quite a few who did deserve it get off. Anti-gov hysteria is de rigeur for children, druggies, and professional journos but it is mostly misplaced.
If you think the government is incapable of injustice, you're living under a rock. A big fucking rock, maybe even a mountain.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5966223 - 08/15/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: What if it means not enough to prosecute on? So, what were they dong with all those phones? Inquiring minds want to know.
re-selling them. called entrepreneurship.
Sure, buy at full retail instead of wholesale and then try to sell them. Brilliant entrepreneueship.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5966235 - 08/15/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe their using them for a very large drug ring?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5966511 - 08/15/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
bi0 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: What if it means not enough to prosecute on? So, what were they dong with all those phones? Inquiring minds want to know.
re-selling them. called entrepreneurship.
Sure, buy at full retail instead of wholesale and then try to sell them. Brilliant entrepreneueship.
well, I'm sure how it is where you live, but out here in the city there are latino and muslim bodagas on every other corner that sell those calling-cards and Trac phones for way more than you'd pay at Wal-Mart - which, by the way, are non-existant in most major cities. That is how they'd make money - they corner the market and cash in on those without transportation (a huge percentage of people in the city) out to the suburbs or rural areas where such retail outlets exist.
Bodagas arent necessarily known for great deals.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5967023 - 08/15/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You wouldn't know a snake if it crawled up your pants and bit your dick.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5967577 - 08/15/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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oh, a personal attack. is that all you've got? I know you're more clever than that.
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Schwip
Never sleeps.


Registered: 06/27/05
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Phred]
#5967667 - 08/15/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Come on now, the one's name was Osama.....
And 1000 cell phones? To make a profit on in Texas? They have walmarts in texas.....how the fuck you going to buy boatloads of phones and sell them for 5$ above retail!?
"Ahhhh...."
"A ConvenientTM store, you say?"
"Oh,....O.K."
-------------------- -------------------------------- " If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. " .............. "MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Schwip]
#5969033 - 08/16/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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They probably bought them in order to use the batteries to make drugs. They recently busted some individuals of a different ethnicity at our Wal*Mart here for buying large amounts of cell phones. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5969929 - 08/16/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said: oh, a personal attack. is that all you've got? I know you're more clever than that.
That's not really an attack. Come on, even you have to admit that no one has come up with any better explanation than that these guys were assholes with some bad ideas that they were acting on. You're spinning around like a top trying desperately to come up with some excuse for these guys. It's sad really. If you're gonna buy 1,000 cell phones you do it wholesale, one stop shopping for half price. Only problem is, you have to leave your name. Uhoh. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it almost certainly is a duck. These fine upstanding entrepreneurs will probably be relocating soon, since their cover is blown.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5970095 - 08/16/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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So you don't think it's possible the purchases could be drug related?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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I think it's possible that you can jump with all your might and pass unscathed through the sun. Not fucking likely though, is it?
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5971236 - 08/16/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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So that's a no? You don't think a suspected drug dealer being watched by the authorities could use trace phones to avoid police monitoring of his phone calls?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
Edited by RosettaStoned (08/16/06 09:39 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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And then use the batteries to make more drugs? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Schwip
Never sleeps.


Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: So that's a no? You don't think a suspected drug dealer being watched by the authorities could use trace phones to avoid police monitoring of his phone calls?
that happens alot. trac phones are great for that sort of thing, i hear.
but in this instance, i dont think it is the case. were all the phones trac phones?
-------------------- -------------------------------- " If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. " .............. "MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"
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Vvellum
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5972762 - 08/17/06 12:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
bi0 said: oh, a personal attack. is that all you've got? I know you're more clever than that.
That's not really an attack. Come on, even you have to admit that no one has come up with any better explanation than that these guys were assholes with some bad ideas that they were acting on. You're spinning around like a top trying desperately to come up with some excuse for these guys. It's sad really. If you're gonna buy 1,000 cell phones you do it wholesale, one stop shopping for half price. Only problem is, you have to leave your name. Uhoh. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it almost certainly is a duck. These fine upstanding entrepreneurs will probably be relocating soon, since their cover is blown.
I think a bad business plan (or a decent business plan if they re-sell to all the bodegas in big cities) is far more likely than some sort of terrorist connection. Even the FBI cannot find a link to terrorism with all these kids. I'm putting my money on the FBI - not your hysteria and paranoia.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Schwip]
#5973142 - 08/17/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prosecutors said the prepaid cell phones they were buying can be used to make hard-to-track international calls and have been linked to use by terrorists.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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I wouldn't doubt it if the government simply wishes to make cases for eliminating prepaid cell phones, because the government is more capable of exercising control over its citizens when the citizens' activities and behaviors are associated with a singular identity. The more comprehensive profile they have on you, the more able they are to control you, profit from you, and gain from you.
Of course, the more of an established identity you have on file, that file being used by others to make decisions that pertain to you (whether or not you will be imprisoned, if you should be given a job opportunity, if the credit or insurance agency should gamble with your life), the less able one will be to transform oneself, to grow and evolve.
For example, if you have bad credit, it is more difficult to seize opportunities to establish good credit. Getting caught with marijuana paraphenilia when you were eighteen might prevent you from getting a job when you are 25. Etc. etc. etc. etc.
Its no small wonder that the Internet will become more and more regulated, that anonymous means of sharing information such as prepaid cell phones will suffer from propaganda agansit, and that the government will seek to enhance identity cards and databanks.
They want to know exactly who you are so that they can control you for their own benefit. 

 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Vvellum
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Interesting analysis, but if the government wanted to manufacture a reason to get rid of pre-paid phones, why were all the charges dropped in both cases? If there was some sinister conspiracy, they could have easily manufactured evidence of a "terrorist link" and sent those "damn A-rabs" to Guantanomo Bay without legal recourse and the ability to communicate with the outside world, thus solidifing their supposed guilt in the eyes of the American public and accomplishing the goal of abolishing this mode of communication.
Also, I bet the NSA is under orders to monitor these so-called "anonymous" phones anyway.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5975851 - 08/18/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, I'm not proposing a conspiracy theory as an actuality, simply saying that I wouldn't doubt it if it was happening. 
I'm not so sure that they would manufacture events in such a way, but I think it is typical to see events spinned, just as I spinned it into the issue that I did.
A common expression is that "terrorism" is simply a way that the government tries to gain more control over its people, and perhaps this is an extension of that. I'm simply just speculating, making it seem as though I actually have something valid to contribute to this forum that I have been lurking in. 
 Peace.
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RosettaStoned
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: Vvellum]
#5975855 - 08/18/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also, I bet the NSA is under orders to monitor these so-called "anonymous" phones anyway.
Even if they are it would still be a difficult matter to pinpoint who's voice is on the prepaid phone. Not that they couldn't, but they surely can't have a audio file of everyone's voice.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Vvellum
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that's true, but I'm sure that the audio is being data-mined for information. I can see fireworksgod's point about the powers-that-be wishing these phones be eliminated.
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Madtowntripper
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Re: Two arrested in Dearborn [Re: zappaisgod]
#5978888 - 08/19/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
bi0 said: oh, a personal attack. is that all you've got? I know you're more clever than that.
That's not really an attack. Come on, even you have to admit that no one has come up with any better explanation than that these guys were assholes with some bad ideas that they were acting on. You're spinning around like a top trying desperately to come up with some excuse for these guys. It's sad really. If you're gonna buy 1,000 cell phones you do it wholesale, one stop shopping for half price. Only problem is, you have to leave your name. Uhoh. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it almost certainly is a duck. These fine upstanding entrepreneurs will probably be relocating soon, since their cover is blown.
So wait, you *ARE* aware that both these guys were released, right? You know they ARENT terrorists, and that they *DID* have reason to buy these phones, right?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/15/cell.phone.terror.arrests.ap/index.html
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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