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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Let's clear this up once and for all
    #5948833 - 08/09/06 11:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, just so there's no confusion, let's all try and agree on what mysticism is. It seems clear that trying to use a one-sentence definition results in confusion, so instead let's focus on the defining characteristics of mysticism:

1. It is based on direct experience, not just belief.

2. It emphasizes that the divine or ultimate reality is to be found by turning inward.

3. As such, mystical beliefs tend to center around the recognition that the fundamental nature of reality is at the core of our own being, rather than outside of ourselves


Now, let's look at what mysticism is not:

1. It is not scriptural. Although mystics may use certain texts or interpret scripture from a mystical perspective, these texts are seen mainly as commentary on the mystical experience, which transcends the bounds of language.

2. It is not simply a matter of "talking to God." Rather, a mystic communes with the higher self by focusing inward. The mystic understands God or the ultimate reality to be a part of oneself, and therefore something to be found within, not something outside of oneself with which to communicate.

3. It is not magic. Magic is an attempt to manipulate the forces of the universe to do one's bidding. Mysticism does not attempt to manipulate anything other than one's own consciousness. A mystic may very well practice magic, but they are different ideas.


I think I've got a good list going there. If any mystics want to correct me about anything, just say something. And just to clear a couple more things up: Elaborating on or rephrasing a definition is not the same as coming up with a new definition.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949006 - 08/10/06 12:17 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

It's about transcending dualism :cool:


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949015 - 08/10/06 12:20 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Is this an acceptable interpertation,

that its knowledge and understanding developed through the use of imagination,

in contrast to knowledge or understanding developed through observable fact or (deemed obsevable facts by empirical reference)


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949174 - 08/10/06 01:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The mystic understands God or the ultimate reality to be a part of oneself, and therefore something to be found within, not something outside of oneself with which to communicate.

I would add that one recognizes oneself to be a part of Reality, just as Reality is a part of oneself. Thus, from the perspective of absolute Truth, everything is holy and divine, with nothing being moreso or less so than anything else.

And also that one realizes that interpreting reality from the vantage point of the individual: that is, relatively and subjectively, is an insane thing to do. When you interpret reality through the lens of the individual self, you leave out other perspectives. That is why water is not always water.

To us, it is water. To fish, it is a home. To fire, it is death.

That's also why conceptualizing reality is no good, because you're limiting reality.


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949372 - 08/10/06 02:02 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949376 - 08/10/06 02:05 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Don't roll your eyes at me.  :wink:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950769 - 08/10/06 04:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

4. mysticism is beyond humans' conception


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (08/10/06 04:34 PM)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5950858 - 08/10/06 05:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
4. mysticism is beyond humans' conception




Well then I guess no humans can practice mysticism. If they can't even conceive of it, how would they know where to start?


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5950863 - 08/10/06 05:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

God this shit is just so farfetched.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5950864 - 08/10/06 05:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
4. mysticism is beyond humans' conception




Well then I guess no humans can practice mysticism. If they can't even conceive of it, how would they know where to start?



Ya, I'd have to disagree with BlueCoyote there. Mysticism is definitely within the bounds of human conception. The mystic may experience things which are beyond his ability to describe, but that does not mean that he cannot conceive of such things.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5953460 - 08/11/06 12:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

<<let's all try and agree on what mysticism is>>
why?
concepts are whatever the dictionary defines
so words define words, which define words, which...
and thus ultimately all definitions are circular...
I know - of course it easier to agree on what wood or metal are, for example;
than on what mysticisim is...partly because you want to equate it with "Truth"
...when it comes to this sort of thing I always remember what Humpty Dumpty said
(Louis Carrol reference )
...Susuki Roshi said something like: " if it's not paradoxical it's not truth...
anyway i'm not being frivolous when I ask why...i think if you answer the question it may actually effect the answer


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Let's clear this up once and for all [Re: Silversoul]
    #5961633 - 08/14/06 04:37 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm..then let's simply say,  mysticism is beyond the concept of human wording :smile: Words can only describe it partially as it is a spiritual concept, not fully explainable and graspable by rationalism.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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