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Offlinetwelvelookslikeu
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Registered: 06/27/06
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Lost after death
    #5948219 - 08/09/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking about how Egyptians viewed death and was wondering if it could be true. Does anyone think it is possible that when you die the key is to remember your life here on earth and not forget it. Exactly like when you are in a dream you have no clue about your physical reality because in a dream you think it is reality. I heard that the Egyptians would practice lucid dreaming to get use to knowing when they are in places other than physical reality so that when they die they will realize they are dead and can find their way to the heavens. I totally makes since to me. What if death is like a dream and if you never realize you are dead then you will wonder for eternity never knowing you lived in the flesh.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
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Re: Lost after death [Re: twelvelookslikeu]
    #5948262 - 08/09/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

twelvelookslikeu said:
What if death is like a dream and if you never realize you are dead then you will wonder for eternity never knowing you lived in the flesh.




What if life is like a dream and if you never realize you are alive then you will wonder for eternity never knowing you were once dead.


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Offlinetwelvelookslikeu
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Re: Lost after death [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5948271 - 08/09/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes that is true. Life is a dream in a way.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Lost after death [Re: twelvelookslikeu]
    #5948311 - 08/09/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do u remember who or what you were before this life?
I think we all should try and remember that too and corelated to what you
say could give us a better view of what happens after "death and between deaths.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Lost after death [Re: twelvelookslikeu]
    #5948471 - 08/09/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think this life is like a spiritual play-station game. We have access to the entire time line and can jump in anywhere to live a life. We do this to learn a lesson, be entertained, have fun. When we die it is important to remember what transpired on earth so we can take it back with us. ...and play another game.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Lost after death [Re: twelvelookslikeu]
    #5949390 - 08/10/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

At death, every soul will be basked before everything that ever was and everything that ever will be. It will either dive within with embrace, or it will panic with sheer terror.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineFractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
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Re: Lost after death [Re: shymanta]
    #5949438 - 08/10/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I question the existence of a spirit or a soul in the first place though.


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineFractalated
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Registered: 07/22/06
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Basilides]
    #5949445 - 08/10/06 12:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Unless you're using "soul" metaphorically or symbolically?

And "diving in embrace or panicking" to mean the final experience as a point of consciousness?


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Fractalated]
    #5949453 - 08/10/06 12:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I use the word as a synonym for Consciousness.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineFractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Basilides]
    #5949474 - 08/10/06 12:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So basically when the consciousness disintegrates, its last act is to either embrace reality or fear/fight it?


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Fractalated]
    #5949570 - 08/10/06 01:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no, consciousness doesn't "disintegrate". it merely loses the body.


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Deviate]
    #5949587 - 08/10/06 01:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

When you die, your brain remains "on" for about 10(?) minutes.

If you've seen waking life, you'll know where this is coming from. That 10 minutes can be spent in a dream.


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OfflineFractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Phishe]
    #5949603 - 08/10/06 01:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That was a damn good movie :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineFractalated
There's no onehome up there...

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Re: Lost after death [Re: Deviate]
    #5949608 - 08/10/06 01:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well once it loses the body then where does it go?


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Phishe]
    #5949615 - 08/10/06 01:53 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no, consciousness doesn't "disintegrate". it merely loses the body.

That is if you believe in a soul, but I think you consciousness would have to dissolve to a certain degree because your brain is what gives you the ability to recognize life, as you grew up as a young babe in swaddling cloth, lol, you formalized simple mental constructs in which your were able to relate to the world or express yourself more extensively,

and as you get older your brain slows down, I think to almost a dream state, in which some older people can't recognize that their even still alive, as they obtain alsymers and huge losses of memory occur, which is significant, because memories are what define/distinguish us and give us an idendity, if you lose memories then you essentially have lost a part of yourself, and meaning towards living life in general,

Which I think the only appropriate age to die, is in the advanced years, when the transtion isn't so vivid and obviously apparent as when you die at a young age,


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Fractalated]
    #5949616 - 08/10/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fractalated said:
Well once it loses the body then where does it go?




that depends on its karma.


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Deviate]
    #5949622 - 08/10/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I disagree that consciousness is permanent.

I always found this description very good:

Quote:

If you say that the Self is truly reality, then you're saying that there is an eternal witness, an eternal perceiver, and it is the one true reality. However, there is also the objective world of form.

How is this explaned?

(arguments in form of

* ARG: doubt from a reader
* RES: Response)

* ARG. 1: the Perceiver existed before the perceived
* RES: But then there would be a perceiving subject without any object to perceive (and furthermore, the object being perceived (the objective world) has a causal structure, so the only possible explanation by the "Self theory" would be that the objective world arose simultaneously with the Perceiver, the Self (see Arg. 3)

* ARG. 2: the perceived object existed before the Perceiving subject
* RES: A perceived object cannot exist if there is no subject perceiving it - the term perceived object necessarily implies the presence of a perceiver.

Thus: the perceiving subject and the perceived object cannot exist sequentially

* ARG. 3: the Perceiver and perceived arose simultaneously
* RES: Two things that exist simultaneously cannot have any connection or relationship with each other. They cannot have the relationship of being cause and result, for example. This is because something that arises simultaneously with something else has no opportunity to be that second thing's cause. It only arises at precisely the same time as its supposed result, so how could it have produced that result? It would have had no time to do so. It can therefore only be that things that arise simultaneously do so independent of each other.

In this case, it would be impossible for the perceived object and the perceiving subject to be unrelated in the way that two things that come into existence simultaneously are unrelated, because the perceived object and perceiving subject are cause and result - the cause for there being a perceiving consciousness is that there is an object to perceive. If they arose simultaneously, however, they could not have such a relationship, because the perceived object would have no opportunity to cause the perceiving consciousness to arise.



Thus: there is no way that the inner and outer sources of consciousness (inner being the perceiving senses, the body, the mind, and consciousness; outer being the objects of the inner sources: the objective world) can truly occur, because they cannot occur sequentially, they cannot occur simultaneously, and there is no other possibility. So then what are they? They are mere appearances, like illusions, like e-mail, and like movies. They have no true existence.






And since they have no true existence, both subject (consciousness) and object are impermanent.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Lost after death [Re: capliberty]
    #5949624 - 08/10/06 02:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We don't "have a soul". This is like saying "I have a consciousness". We are essentially Consciousness - pneuma phenomena (Or Consciousness, or Soul, or Spirit; whichever synonymous expression you would like). It should neither be confused with medical consciousness as you have demonstrated. It does not die at death, as it exists independently from physics.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Fractalated]
    #5949646 - 08/10/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fractalated said:
I disagree that consciousness is permanent.

I always found this description very good:

Quote:

If you say that the Self is truly reality, then you're saying that there is an eternal witness, an eternal perceiver, and it is the one true reality. However, there is also the objective world of form.

How is this explaned?

(arguments in form of

* ARG: doubt from a reader
* RES: Response)

* ARG. 1: the Perceiver existed before the perceived
* RES: But then there would be a perceiving subject without any object to perceive (and furthermore, the object being perceived (the objective world) has a causal structure, so the only possible explanation by the "Self theory" would be that the objective world arose simultaneously with the Perceiver, the Self (see Arg. 3)

* ARG. 2: the perceived object existed before the Perceiving subject
* RES: A perceived object cannot exist if there is no subject perceiving it - the term perceived object necessarily implies the presence of a perceiver.

Thus: the perceiving subject and the perceived object cannot exist sequentially

* ARG. 3: the Perceiver and perceived arose simultaneously
* RES: Two things that exist simultaneously cannot have any connection or relationship with each other. They cannot have the relationship of being cause and result, for example. This is because something that arises simultaneously with something else has no opportunity to be that second thing's cause. It only arises at precisely the same time as its supposed result, so how could it have produced that result? It would have had no time to do so. It can therefore only be that things that arise simultaneously do so independent of each other.

In this case, it would be impossible for the perceived object and the perceiving subject to be unrelated in the way that two things that come into existence simultaneously are unrelated, because the perceived object and perceiving subject are cause and result - the cause for there being a perceiving consciousness is that there is an object to perceive. If they arose simultaneously, however, they could not have such a relationship, because the perceived object would have no opportunity to cause the perceiving consciousness to arise.



Thus: there is no way that the inner and outer sources of consciousness (inner being the perceiving senses, the body, the mind, and consciousness; outer being the objects of the inner sources: the objective world) can truly occur, because they cannot occur sequentially, they cannot occur simultaneously, and there is no other possibility. So then what are they? They are mere appearances, like illusions, like e-mail, and like movies. They have no true existence.






And since they have no true existence, both subject (consciousness) and object are impermanent.




im unable to follow your argument. it seems conclusions are being drawn which don't necessarily follow.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Lost after death [Re: Fractalated]
    #5949652 - 08/10/06 02:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fractalated said:
Well once it loses the body then where does it go?




If it is prepared, it will recognized the Clear Unmitigated Light of Reality and it will enter it becoming blissfully lost in it; Unlimited expansion of consciousness that is called the Pleroma by Gnostics. If it is unprepared, it will cower in terror before the Clear Light, become greatly disturbed by its inability to identify with it, and ultimately, it will regress into physics again; in which the consciounesss grows coincide with a developing fetus once again.

Nope - to say "Once you're dead you're dead" is not apt preperation at all for one's physical death. It is just another ripple of non-enlightenment, another life wasted into dust instead of real Freedom.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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