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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5940059 - 08/07/06 10:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
*gods

The entity God, with a capital G, is a Bible character.




It does predate the Bible. Hinduism is far more ancient than Abrahamic traditions. Metaphysical philosophies regarding a singular point of truth preceding existence/time-space continuum also predate Biblical articulation and allegory. The idea of God has been around for as long as humans were able to consciously contemplate on such matters. I don't see it as some kind of historical faux pas, or a conspiracy as many empericists, encultured in Judea-Christian tradition believe. Rather, the historicity of ideas pertaining to God demonstrate a consistent archetype in the human psyche in general, where pure ideas pertaining to compassion, love etc. are held in such reverence that they become the sum of all reality. Mystics (whether nomadic or encultured) have always contended that once physics are stripped away, whether ideally in mystical experience or actually in the case of physical death, only what is completely "otherly" remains. Whether the unknown is the Ground of Consciousness, an actual method of conjoining individual consciousness with one another or simple nothingness and non-being has been debated since the dawn of thought. For me at least, the sacred expression of Compassion has always been wholly other.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5940065 - 08/07/06 10:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5940102 - 08/07/06 10:30 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The very fact that such an archetype has existed for such a long time suggests to me that it played some role in our evolution. Perhaps it has been around longer than Homo Sapiens. My guess is that as our brains were developing cognitively and symbolically, we came up with the concept of the ultimate, and it has been in our consciousness ever since.

Or perhaps it was created as a means of explaining ethical behavior.

Regardless, when one extinguishes all conceptualizations (as in Nirvana), then one is left purely with the here and now, with reality as it is.

You say that at the heart of everything is that which is completely 'otherly'. I say that at the heart of relative truth is absolute truth. So perhaps we are not that different, only using different terminology.

Whether the unknown is the Ground of Consciousness, an actual method of conjoining individual consciousness with one another or simple nothingness and non-being has been debated since the dawn of thought.

It seems to me that concepts such as non-being depend on their opposites, in this case, being, for existence. Being implies non-being, and vice versa. Therefore, neither of them are inherently existent and are depedently arisen mere appearances.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineSimpleThoughts
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5941266 - 08/07/06 06:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

God is everything you want him to be. God can be your doG, the man's best friend. God can be a person you idolize. God can be yourself. God can be the guy who created this world if you need to believe in.
God is something everyone got, but not everyone knows it. But God is always there. Atheist maybe don't believe in the guy who created this world but they believe in what they know. God is everything you love, everything you believe in. God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.


--------------------
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON,
THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE
HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: SimpleThoughts]
    #5941310 - 08/07/06 06:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.

Could you explain what you mean by that? You can't live if you don't believe what?


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineSimpleThoughts
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5941340 - 08/07/06 06:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fractalated said:
God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.

Could you explain what you mean by that? You can't live if you don't believe what?




You can't live without believing in something. Believing is the meaning of life.


--------------------
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON,
THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE
HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: SimpleThoughts]
    #5941433 - 08/07/06 07:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What if I were to say that believing is just wishful thinking and is often just a fantasy?

What of athiests? What of people who don't believe in anything, and nihilists? They're still alive.

I disagree that believing is the meaning of life. Life is the meaning of life. In other words, the journey IS the goal.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5942029 - 08/07/06 10:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Athiests believe that they do not believe in anything. However this is just my belief. I never believed myself to be an athiest.


--------------------


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OfflineElectricJW
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5943987 - 08/08/06 02:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We are all energy, that once was god.  The big bang came from god and everything that was ever created was created in this moment.  God is taking a backseat ride, viewing our perspective, this way god is able to experience everything that will every happen.  Then once all of us reunite together to become god, the process repeats for infinity.  And there is a way to acess the greater reality, and that is looking within yourself, called Astral Projection, FTMFW! :grin:


--------------------
"Visualize the action, then actualize the vision." - King of the Hill

“Long you live and high you'll fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.”- Pink Floyd


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5944846 - 08/08/06 07:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
*gods

The entity God, with a capital G, is a Bible character.




Quote:

It does predate the Bible. Hinduism is far more ancient than Abrahamic traditions.




Some Hindus worship the Brahman, which is described as a universal soul (not a physical entity), while others are polytheistic. This division among the Hindus is another example of the inability of mystics to arrive at any consistent or universal conclusions.

Quote:

Metaphysical philosophies regarding a singular point of truth preceding existence/time-space continuum also predate Biblical articulation and allegory.




Yes, but such a philosopy has little in common with the physical entity God that is described in the Bible.

"And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day." --Genesis 3:8

It doesn't seem that a "singular point of truth" would have a voice nor the ability to walk.

Quote:

Rather, the historicity of ideas pertaining to God demonstrate a consistent archetype in the human psyche in general, where pure ideas pertaining to compassion, love etc. are held in such reverence that they become the sum of all reality.




Or perhaps this merely demonstrates the insatiable desire for some sort of meaning or explanation which is shared by all humans. For example, many ancient peoples used to worship the sun, which is in my opinion slightly more sensible than religions like Hinduism and Christianity because you can prove that the sun exists and be sure that everyone is worshipping the same god.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5945835 - 08/08/06 11:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Some Hindus worship the Brahman, which is described as a universal soul (not a physical entity), while others are polytheistic. This division among the Hindus is another example of the inability of mystics to arrive at any consistent or universal conclusions.




The Logos of God (and I am simply using English terminology here) does not change descriptively in different languages; it is still the Logos. The Brahman of the Hindus is described as eternal, genderless, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and indescribable - and this is predating Biblia. The "bearded guy in the sky" construction is a fundamentalist/exoteric one, and esoteric ideas have subsequently existed before it as allegory normally precedes literalist interpretations. I know of English speaking Hindus who simply use the word God (with a capital G) when describing Logos. Finally, if one reads the Bhagavad-Gita as legalistically as some read Genesis, one will find equally interesting language pertaining to Divine Mystery, including narrations of Krishna, the "Supreme Personality of the Godhead".

Quote:

Yes, but such a philosopy has little in common with the physical entity God that is described in the Bible.

"And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day." --Genesis 3:8

It doesn't seem that a "singular point of truth" would have a voice nor the ability to walk.




Even fundamentalist Christians today rarely believe God to actually be physical, and many are content not understanding the Mystery they revere even while rejecting obviously primitive ideas of God. The singular point of Truth is where mystics, not exoterics meet. Gnostics, Kabbalists, Sufis, etc. are able to discern the phenomena of physics from spirit (un-embodied consciousness), which Gnostics call the pneuma phenomena, and similar, Sufis refer to the experience of pneuma as F'ana, the annihilation of physics.

Quote:

Or perhaps this merely demonstrates the insatiable desire for some sort of meaning or explanation which is shared by all humans. For example, many ancient peoples used to worship the sun, which is in my opinion slightly more sensible than religions like Hinduism and Christianity because you can prove that the sun exists and be sure that everyone is worshipping the same god.




A wise Vedic man once told me, "The soul's thirst for God begins in the flesh, ventures through the world and ends in liberation from it."


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineShrooomKing
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5945969 - 08/09/06 12:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

lol

This post brings back many memories for me. The feeling of wanting to know why "god" or the like exsist, quoting the great J. Campbell.

In my journey to find the truth, I started in the very same places as this poster...

Now... mid journey... looking both back and to the future I have no more answers than questions. Only god is love, love is hard to find in a lonely world, treasure it...

I am to weak to know the truth...

yet I still move forward.


--------------------
A driver knows that it is not the road that is his biggest obstacle, rather it is the poles.
A great driver understands, the poles will always be there, and he must learn to adjust.

I can't keep doing this on my own... with all these... people. -daniel plainview


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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: ShrooomKing]
    #5946391 - 08/09/06 03:34 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We spend out whole life's defining god :smile:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5946427 - 08/09/06 03:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Even fundamentalist Christians today rarely believe God to actually be physical




Then their beliefs are in conflict with the Bible. I can provide numerous examples from the Bible in which God is described as having the characteristics of a physical entity.

Quote:

The singular point of Truth is where mystics, not exoterics meet.




So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5946451 - 08/09/06 04:05 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Then their beliefs are in conflict with the Bible. I can provide numerous examples from the Bible in which God is described as having the characteristics of a physical entity.




Yea, how about that... spirituality that contradicts the ancient words of men :smile:

Quote:

So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?




:yesnod:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5946962 - 08/09/06 12:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?




:yesnod:




Here we have yet another example of a mystic conjuring up his own special definition of the word.  The dictionary defines a mystic as "One who practices or believes in mysticism or a given form of mysticism," and mysticism is defined as "A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience."  I'd say that the beliefs of Christians, literalists included, are most certainly beyond "intellectual apprehension."


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5947317 - 08/09/06 02:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.


--------------------


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Offlineredliterocket4
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5947385 - 08/09/06 03:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I like St. Thomas Aquinas' answer best, but not because it's right. "That which nothing greater can be thought," sounds almost right to me, but I'd need to change it slightly to "that which cannot be thought." Tommy's answer makes it sound like God could be a thought. I tend to think God is that which creates thought and can never itself be thought of. God is whatever can't be known, defined, found, or understood. I guess it also works to call God the All, because the All, too, can never be known. Knowing requires duality, a separation between the knower and the known. God is both and neither, so knowledge is not capable of containing it.


--------------------
"The Big Lie gets lots of public attention and is carried forward as in a big parade, with many hungry listeners, while the truth must come limping behind on crutches, struggling to catch up, panting with its tongue hanging out." -Reich


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5947396 - 08/09/06 03:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i dont think christian literalists are like the majority of other mystics. many of them associate anything mystical or occult with devil worship or witchcraft.
  taking the bible literaly denies the bible of it's valuable metaphors which could be interpreted as mystical or denoting something otherworldly such as the seven churches in revelation which are a metaphor for the the seven chakras. the literalists would not believe god is physical, because in the bible god is described as a spirit. this is important because if we are made in the image of god then we have aspects of spirit too.   

  John4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit
and in truth"
God is exactly not what you think is God or what you define God to be. but if i had to choose a defintion i would just call God The Supreme Collective Consciousness.  :thirdeyeani:


--------------------


Edited by ShroomDoom (08/09/06 03:31 PM)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5947687 - 08/09/06 05:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.




Most of the fundies that I know claim to talk to God on a regular basis.


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