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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception
#5943251 - 08/08/06 04:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think right and wrong exist - other than within the constructs of a human mind.
Animals don't have a sense of wrong and right - even intelligent animals will just take something from another, its survival of the fittest.
They say its wrong to kill - but we and animals kill all the time without remorse. They say we should not pollute our planet - but it wouldn't even matter if an asteroid hits us tomorrow.
So what is right and wrong?
Is it just a way of relating what is beneficial to the self? Or a way of relating whats beneficial to the whole of life?
It seems to change depending on the greed of the person/s.
Is that why people seek religion, do they want to be told what is right and wrong?
Maybe none of it matters at all. So what if we blow our whole planet up with a nuke, SO WHAT?
I cannot determine whether the outcome of humans will be good or bad or for whom it may be good or bad for!!!!
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soulcircus
Stranger


Registered: 05/09/06
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception *DELETED* [Re: Ego Death]
#5943268 - 08/08/06 05:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5943282 - 08/08/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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i was going to reply but then i realized this is like asking "does god exist?". this type of question has already been debated so much that there is no real point in starting a fresh. why waste time going through the motions of presenting arguments and counter arguments when there is several centuries worth of high level philosophical discourse on this very topic? if you want to discuss the views and arguments of a particular philosopher or philosophy or some particular aspect of this debate, or present a summary of previous answers that philosophers and thinkers have given, i think that would be far more interesting/appropriate for this, a philosophy forum. but i don't really see a point in ignoring all the previous thought and entering into a relatively low level debate.
Edited by Deviate (08/08/06 05:38 AM)
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: soulcircus]
#5943294 - 08/08/06 05:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said: nothings really right or wrong, because everyone is right in themselves in acting the way they do, even if its something horrible, they did it because they felt it was right for their situation, however, acting in harmony with the truth is a different matter. karma is generated when you do not act in harmony with the truth, this inflicts suffering, however, all suffering is a form of love, to prod you in the righteous direction, whre your true happyness lies.
so then right actions are simply actions in harmony with the truth.
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 640
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5943402 - 08/08/06 08:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'd say it all depends on your perspective. From the insanely narrow vantage point of the individual self, of relative truth, there is right and wrong, bigger/smaller, self/other, etc.
However, if you broaden your perspective and are able to see from the perspective of absolute truth, then there is no right or wrong. No birth or death, no bigger or smaller, no self and no other, etc.
-------------------- "Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: soulcircus]
#5943855 - 08/08/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said: nothings really right or wrong, because everyone is right in themselves in acting the way they do, even if its something horrible, they did it because they felt it was right for their situation, however, acting in harmony with the truth is a different matter. karma is generated when you do not act in harmony with the truth
The truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


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Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5943884 - 08/08/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"What is right for the person standing face to face with you; is left to you!" ...
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capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: it stars saddam]
#5944078 - 08/08/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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right & wrong = social common dominator
Although it is a dog eat dog world, it also has a few rules,
Stealing and Vandalizing property is universally unaccepted, you can debate whether the property was yours in the first place but ultimately stealing will be looked down upon,
Rape and Murder will be looked down upon, because everybody rationally say that they wouldn't want their family and friends raped or murdered, but I guess on a savage anarchy lvl, those things can be justified I guess. because anarchy in a way could be a better etopian approach, but anarchy is not a practical view when viewing the populous world, of course organizations will take place, it is human nature to form teams and alliances,
but having a system will bring about these destructive personalities, so you have to figure on being tolerant of such occurrences taking place, everyone has to endure system rules, where if everything goes maybe global consensus can be reached. The system kinda de-generates, 'viewing from the pig', it kinda produces a de-generate {underbelly}, we're all preprogrammed to follow a certain script, meaning subconsciously we accept many different standards that are deem-able to society, these hidden standards are enforced by your local law, state law and finally government law, and these laws effect people within each county or state, and how these laws are interpreted and how they generate pressure or organize relations, causes environments to form, these environments that form can cause drama, drama resulting from oganization reflected by the laws
So how does this all tie in with whether there is truly a right or wrong, the thing about that question in its context, all concepts that have meaning, they all have variable meaning, meaning there is no true meaning behind each concept, as there is no right or wrong concept, there is no time, no love, no strength, no religion, no poltics, no life, no death, everything can have no meaning,
now I just have a revelation about my brain, you have to count your brain a seperate sense, we acutaly have six senses, 5 plus the brain, the brain is counted because like other senses, its a sensory device that interprets information gathered but yet its meaning can have no meaning, just like any other that goes out
without touch you go numb without sight you go blind without smell you can't smell without taste your taste buds can't taste without hearing you go death without the brain you lose meaning,
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 640
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: capliberty]
#5944306 - 08/08/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The mind sure is a sense!
-------------------- "Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Fractalated]
#5944386 - 08/08/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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No matter how you slice it, wearing white after labour day is WRONG!
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery


Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5944540 - 08/08/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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As the Dalai Lama says - if one has an open heart, there is no need for anybody to tell him what is right and what is wrong. He will know because he will be acting out of compassion.
The problem is that most people in the west detach their minds from their emotions. When this happens questions like 'Right or Wrong' can be argued on purely mental level. This means we can talk about the death sentence, Middle East conflict, etc. without any kind of compassion for those who are or will be hurt by those issues. In the safety of our mind we can stay happily oblivious to the suffering of others.
So to answer the original question, yes I think there exists right from wrong and the only way to truly know it is to open ones heart.
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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Deviate]
#5945129 - 08/08/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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My apologies but philosophy is something I do mainly myself, I havn't read the "several centuries worth of high level philosophical discourse" you speak of.
Perhaps it would of been useful if your post could of contained "a summary of previous answers that philosophers and thinkers have given".
That would be far more interesting/appropriate a reply to such a post.
I'm just interested in hearing others viewpoints.
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5961961 - 08/14/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol pwnedshakalaka
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Namaste
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flo
...

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 264
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: RedNucleus]
#5962206 - 08/14/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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whats wrong with detaching our minds from our emotions? if your emotions tell you whats right and wrong your a women...
edit:"all women are slaves to there emotions" -Professor Farnsworth futurama sayed to Leela who then kicked him in the face ahah
Edited by flo (08/14/06 11:15 AM)
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redtailedhawk
Explorer of the Mystery


Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 559
Loc: The Old Continent
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: flo]
#5962356 - 08/14/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea, right. What's wrong is that when we detach our minds from our emotions we cease to connect to other human beings and the world around us in a meaningful and compassionate way. There is NO WAY we could ever hurt other people or the world we live in if we would live with our hearts wide open, because that would hurt US too much.
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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5962392 - 08/14/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's strange that people turn vegetarian when every human has incisor and canine teeth to eat meat with.
like they say plastic would take a couple hundred or million years to dissolve in the environment or something like that. And while we, as humans, don't have that time, mother nature will just sit here for as long as it takes and inevitably take everything back. whether some massive catastrophe, global warming overtakes everything, we kill ourselves with pollution, or whatever. everything will go back to the way they were.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer


Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Cracka_X]
#5962404 - 08/14/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Maybe we have incisors to eat acorns, fiercely and ravenously
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Namaste
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: RedNucleus]
#5962411 - 08/14/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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girls don't need them to suck dick!
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: redtailedhawk]
#5962676 - 08/14/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
redtailedhawk said: Yea, right. What's wrong is that when we detach our minds from our emotions we cease to connect to other human beings and the world around us in a meaningful and compassionate way. There is NO WAY we could ever hurt other people or the world we live in if we would live with our hearts wide open, because that would hurt US too much.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.



Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5963640 - 08/14/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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sorry if I'm repeating, I didn't have time to read through all your responses.
you're right--right and wrong are constructs of the human mind, but I don't think they are limitted to humans, since its merely a facet of self-consciousness. it occurs naturally as one ponders ones actions and consequences... as one has to choose between path a, or path b, etc.
an alien lifeform that is self-conscious should also have their own morals that pertain to their set of knowledge and environments.
so i don't think its complete hogwash though, if that's what you mean. there is definitely something wrong about killing innocent people, for example, and there is definitely something right about sharing - whether it be food, money, toys, love, etc.
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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ShroomFan
nn dmt

Registered: 03/12/04
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: kake]
#5963772 - 08/14/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is definately subjective
I mean If i fucka girl while im dating another girl
its wrong not necessarily because I think so but it is like a domino effect
I FUCK - GF gets mad- I feel bad
but if she didnt care hey whos to say
right & wrong is interdependent
-------------------- Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa ∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5964072 - 08/14/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let's just keep the world interactively living by the maximum ! Feed life, not death.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Ego Death]
#5966906 - 08/15/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Evil is an unfortunate result of imperfection.
Evil is different than SIN
Evil is doing wrong because of our flawed nature, our lack in understanding.
Sin is doing evil gleefully, knowing full well that it IS evil, Sin is wallowing in evil.
There is no "punishment" for sin, but there is a consequence.
The consequence suffered by he who totally embraces his sin nature is
oblivion.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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capliberty
Stranger


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Re: Right and Wrong - Its just a matter of perception [Re: Moonshoe]
#5967147 - 08/15/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let me get up off the coffee talk and tell you like it is,
If we were born in an imperfect world, in which perceived desirable and undesirable existed, these were used as right and wrong standards to go by, but yet we were born ignorant of everything, religion, concepts, and experience, we then assimilated our own standards based on our own perceptions and the perceived perceptions of others while observing life as we witnessed it and experienced it,
well you know the spill, what I'm saying is we're held accountable to a standard that was enforced upon us, but yet we all are subjugated under different situations, so different dilemmas may arise depending on the situation, this constant engagement of raised issues through out the discourse of our lives determined who we are, Ultimately how can we be judged fairly, right is wrong, wrong is right, survival is among both, people all the time get judged harshly under unfair standards, this leads to a back lash of resentment and jealousy, due to the self-righteousness thats imposed on the inflicted, cause n effect, judge not to be judged, but we all do it based on our conceptions of right and wrong, but if you want to avoid the persecution of karma I suggest to reserve ones judgment until its completely apparent that intervention is necessary,
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