Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Vacuum.
    #5942139 - 08/07/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Is vacuum the absence of [any] molecules?

:strokebeard:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5942350 - 08/07/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well...that's what they say about space. But there are these things called neutrinos that are totally inert (won't react with anything...oh wait, they will react with something but that something doesn't exist in space) that are being emitted by the sun and other stars that may actually make up the vacuum of space.

If I understand the purpose of your question, I too don't understand how any space empty of particles can exist. Neutrinos and possibly other particles that don't react with anything are possibly the makeup of this 'empty' space.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleZippoZM
Knomadic
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
Re: Vacuum. [Re: TODAY]
    #5942407 - 08/07/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

its a much lower density of space, and with a lower density, you will have a lower concentnration of anything that was origonally in the vaccum in the first place.

i dont think that you can acieve a total vaccum, if there is such a thing, and this particles will always remain.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejungjedi
starfleet
Male

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 316
Loc: headed towards the fronti...
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #5942527 - 08/07/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

there is also something called a FALSE VACCUM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: TODAY]
    #5942701 - 08/07/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
Well...that's what they say about space.  But there are these things called neutrinos that are totally inert (won't react with anything...oh wait, they will react with something but that something doesn't exist in space) that are being emitted  by the sun and other stars that may actually make up the vacuum of space.

If I understand the purpose of your question, I too don't understand how any space empty of particles can exist.  Neutrinos and possibly other particles that don't react with anything are possibly the makeup of this 'empty' space.




Interesting! :smile:

Neutrinos are not within molecules?
And, molecules are not within neutrinos?

But, molecules and Neutrinos, interact?!

(Not sure if i am getting that.)


---

And.. No, that is not the purpose of my question..
There are many purposes, BTW. But here is one;

I think about gravitation, as opposed to levitation.

Gravi- meaning “heavy/filled(up)/..” something like that..
And, Levi- meaning “empty/light/..” …

I heard or think or ‘whatever’: that if you fall out from a aircraft, then you are unaffected by gravity, until you the moment you hit the ground. “Free-fallers are unaffected by gravitational forces” ..

I think it is very possible to understand how any space empty of particles can exist.

:laugh:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5942720 - 08/07/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

neutrinos ARE within molecules and are emitted as a product of the energy when they fuse together.  that is my understanding.  I'm not an all knowing being...some on the shroomery or closer to that than me...they will reply :lol:


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: TODAY]
    #5942777 - 08/08/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thought so..

I'll see that as a digression then! :P


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSinthetic
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 812
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5947017 - 08/09/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I heard or think or ‘whatever’: that if you fall out from a aircraft, then you are unaffected by gravity, until you the moment you hit the ground. “Free-fallers are unaffected by gravitational forces” ..
:laugh:




That doesn't even make sense. If you were free falling you are being effected by gravity. Otherwise you wouldn't be falling.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Sinthetic]
    #5955351 - 08/11/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinthetic said:
Quote:

I heard or think or ‘whatever’: that if you fall out from a aircraft, then you are unaffected by gravity, until you the moment you hit the ground. “Free-fallers are unaffected by gravitational forces” ..
:laugh:




That doesn't even make sense. If you were free falling you are being effected by gravity. Otherwise you wouldn't be falling.




NO.. But, feel free to think so!

:grin::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5955544 - 08/12/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Gravity on earth pulls one towards the earth with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s. When you free fall, you fall with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s, downward. When this happens, you are weightless. If you took something out of your pocket and dropped it, the object would seem to float next to you as you both fall towards the ground at the same velocity (ignoring air resistance). However, it would be inaccurate to claim that you are unaffected by gravity.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Seuss]
    #5955813 - 08/12/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Kind sir/mam..

I know the 'old laws of gravity'..

But, they are to old for me to live by.. (Out-dated, and "proven" 'wrong'.)
Feel free to limit yourself to that kind of thinking, though! And again, think you for sharing your view!


I know a free-falling object is unaffected by "gravitation".
And, I respect that you know otherwise...

:grin::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5955827 - 08/12/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I know a free-falling object is unaffected by "gravitation".

Then why is it falling?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineiateshaggy
i haxor 360s
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5955890 - 08/12/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if u were unaffected by gravity then u wouldn't need a parachute. u could just fly back up when u got close to the ground.

now, to the vacuum stuff. i'd have to agree that u can't make a perfect vacuum. nasa has a giant vacuum chamber in their houston facility and it even has a little air in it, but it is so little that an air molecule can travel from the floor to the ceiling w/o bumping another molecule.

it's kinda interesting how celestial bodies break the rules of osmosis.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5956179 - 08/12/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I know a free-falling object is unaffected by "gravitation".

Then why is it falling?




Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.


Key word - Density..

But, I wont argue on your/that way of seeing gravity.
:grin::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: iateshaggy]
    #5956190 - 08/12/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iateshaggy said:
if u were unaffected by gravity then u wouldn't need a parachute.  u could just fly back up when u got close to the ground.




Not that I want to change your way of writing, but, 'u' is a letter..  :tongue:

And, not if you were 'not effected' by something else.
Then you would still fall, just like an apple. :wink::thumbup:

:crazy2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineiateshaggy
i haxor 360s
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5956774 - 08/12/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so by your way of thinking, how are we "not affected" by the moon gravity since we're not resting on it?


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5957005 - 08/12/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.

But if you take the same object out into interstellar space where essentially there is no gravity at all, and then if you don't rest it on anything, it won't fall. Only when it's near a source of gravity, will it fall.

Why would that be?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5961805 - 08/14/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.

But if you take the same object out into interstellar space where essentially there is no gravity at all, and then if you don't rest it on anything, it won't fall. Only when it's near a source of gravity, will it fall.

Why would that be?




Vacuum..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: iateshaggy]
    #5961812 - 08/14/06 04:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iateshaggy said:
so by your way of thinking, how are we "not affected" by the moon gravity since we're not resting on it?




Again, not "your way of thinking", but "a way of thinking", but that is semantics I guess.

Anyways; Good question.

But we are.  :confused::thumbup:

What I am look at here is the effect of electromagnetism, and magnetoelectrism..  :tongue2:

:crazy2::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5962266 - 08/14/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Vacuum..

Objects placed in a vacuum on Earth still fall, so that can't be right.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5962299 - 08/14/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I know a free-falling object is unaffected by "gravitation".

Then why is it falling?




Because nothing is supporting it while inside a gravitational well :wink:

He's right, in a sense - during free fall you are "at rest" with respect to the gravitational field you are in.

Think of it this way: when I sit here, in my computer chair, I can feel gravity pulling me downwards. There must be an imbalance of forces if I can actually feel a net force. Hence I would say gravity is "acting upon" me while I sit in my chair.

During free fall, however, I can not feel any net force acting upon me (and if I were to bring some much more sensitive instruments along for the fall, they would agree that there is no net force acting upon me). If there is no net force acting upon me...then how can gravity be acting upon me? I am, in essence, at rest with respect to the Earth's gravitational field.

Or maybe I'm just stoned :smirk:

I am positive I read this once in a book. It may have been "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Brian Green, I think.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineClammyJoe
Azurescen Head
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: trendal]
    #5962351 - 08/14/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Even if, He can't run around saying that someone in free fall is unaffected by gravity, thats just total horse shit.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Vacuum. [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5962360 - 08/14/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadConductor said:
Even if, He can't run around saying that someone in free fall is unaffected by gravity, thats just total horse shit.




Why is it horse shit?

To be affected by a force, there must be a net force in a given direction. If there is a net force, that force can be measured.

Follow?

So if a net force can always be measured, but no net force is detected during free fall (excluding air resistance...) then it follows that no net force is acting upon an object in free fall. :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: trendal]
    #5962453 - 08/14/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Calling gravity a force is a bit of a misnomer. It's an 'interaction' of matter.

If something is in freefall and the thing it's falling toward is moved, then the trajectory of the freefall will change. This is due to the effect of gravity.

So, even in freefall, you are under the influence of, and affected by, gravity.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5962471 - 08/14/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Stoned, then :smirk:

But if you move the object whatever is falling will experience a net force again, during its change in trajectory.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: trendal]
    #5962492 - 08/14/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

But if you move the object whatever is falling will experience a net force again, during its change in trajectory.

Actually, no. If you're floating in space and a massive object instantly appears nearby, you will start falling toward it and experience no forces.

If the massive thing is moved, it can be considered as vanishing from one point in space, then instantly reappearing at an adjacent point in space along it's tack. You'd still feel no forces. :bong2:  :cool:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: TODAY]
    #5962745 - 08/14/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
Well...that's what they say about space. But there are these things called neutrinos that are totally inert (won't react with anything...oh wait, they will react with something but that something doesn't exist in space) that are being emitted by the sun and other stars that may actually make up the vacuum of space.

If I understand the purpose of your question, I too don't understand how any space empty of particles can exist. Neutrinos and possibly other particles that don't react with anything are possibly the makeup of this 'empty' space.




First off lets get some things straight.

Neutrinos are not totally neutral. They are a neutral lepton so they can only interact with other matter by way of gravity or the weak nuclear force. Meaning they won't interact by way of strong nuclear force or eletromagnetism. An electromangetic interaction is what we commonly experience during our everyday life. If you push your hands together this is an example of an electromagnetic interaction between the electrons surrounding the atoms of both hands repelling each other.

But arguing about neutrinos, their interactions with matter, and whether or not they actually have mass and can actually be defined as matter is silly.

He asked about a vacuum. A vacuum is defined by a space relatively free of matter therefore having a lesser pressure than the surrounding atmosphere. Going on about if you can achieve a perfect vacuum is sort of....pointless and not answering the question.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: iateshaggy]
    #5962779 - 08/14/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iateshaggy said:
if u were unaffected by gravity then u wouldn't need a parachute. u could just fly back up when u got close to the ground.

now, to the vacuum stuff. i'd have to agree that u can't make a perfect vacuum. nasa has a giant vacuum chamber in their houston facility and it even has a little air in it, but it is so little that an air molecule can travel from the floor to the ceiling w/o bumping another molecule.

it's kinda interesting how celestial bodies break the rules of osmosis.





Sorry, just a little point here. Osmosis is diffusion in application to water (since in biology it plays a huge role). The proper word would be diffusion. Butttt... I would have gone with entropy myself. They're all related. Diffusion arises due to entropy.

I'm a stickler. I know.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5962787 - 08/14/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
I know a free-falling object is unaffected by "gravitation".

Then why is it falling?




Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.


Key word - Density..

But, I wont argue on your/that way of seeing gravity.
:grin::thumbup:





Lets make this simple.  If you have a book on a table and suddenly the table is not there where does the book go?

It falls to the floor, right? Because of gravity, right?

Where does density fit into this picture.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5962796 - 08/14/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.

But if you take the same object out into interstellar space where essentially there is no gravity at all, and then if you don't rest it on anything, it won't fall. Only when it's near a source of gravity, will it fall.

Why would that be?




Vacuum..





Again, sorry I'm not trying to pick on you gomp but maybe there's just something that I'm not seeing in your way of thinking.

How is vacuum an answer? You're not explaining anything.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5962809 - 08/14/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

iateshaggy said:
so by your way of thinking, how are we "not affected" by the moon gravity since we're not resting on it?




Again, not "your way of thinking", but "a way of thinking", but that is semantics I guess.

Anyways; Good question.

But we are.  :confused::thumbup:

What I am look at here is the effect of electromagnetism, and magnetoelectrism..  :tongue2:

:crazy2::thumbup:





Electromagnetism?  Sure, gravity pulls your body toward the center of the earth and the eletromagetism between your molecules on your shoes and those of the sidewalk keep you from crashing into it's center.  I don't see where you're coming from though, or what you mean. 

What does electromagnetism have anything to do with this topic or your previous posts?


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: trendal]
    #5962838 - 08/14/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

TheMadConductor said:
Even if, He can't run around saying that someone in free fall is unaffected by gravity, thats just total horse shit.




Why is it horse shit?

To be affected by a force, there must be a net force in a given direction. If there is a net force, that force can be measured.

Follow?

So if a net force can always be measured, but no net force is detected during free fall (excluding air resistance...) then it follows that no net force is acting upon an object in free fall. :wink:




If you're falling you're accelerating.  Force equals mass X acceleration.  F=MA.  That whole arguement is wrong.

You'd have a net force of a whole crap load of Newtons in the direction that the ground is coming at you from and you tell me there's no force there when you hit.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5962853 - 08/14/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
But if you move the object whatever is falling will experience a net force again, during its change in trajectory.

Actually, no. If you're floating in space and a massive object instantly appears nearby, you will start falling toward it and experience no forces.

If the massive thing is moved, it can be considered as vanishing from one point in space, then instantly reappearing at an adjacent point in space along it's tack. You'd still feel no forces. :bong2:  :cool:





You mean to tell me that if you start moving (accelerate) there has been no force applied to you?

I want some of this magic stuff that makes things move without forces being applied.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5963014 - 08/14/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You mean to tell me that if you start moving (accelerate) there has been no force applied to you?

An object in freefall experiences no force. This is why astronauts orbiting the Earth feel no weight. An orbit is a constant freefall.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5963066 - 08/14/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

An object in free fall is constantly accelerating and therefore MUST be acted upon by a force through the fundamental law that F=MA.

Astronauts in orbit experience VERY little weight. But a force MUST be acting on them to keep them from just shooting off into space in a straight line. Otherwise they would not be in orbit. They would be flying through space in a straight line at a constant velocity until some force acted upon them to change that condition.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Vacuum. [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5963093 - 08/14/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If you can't measure a force...there probably isn't one there :wink:

Take an accelerometer with you on a sky diving trip and you'll see what I mean.

No net force is acting upon you during free fall.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5963211 - 08/14/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You can measure it through the change in velocity.

And yes, a NET force is acting upon you during free fall otherwise you wouldn't be accelerating downward.

An objects motion does not change when the net forces are zero. If you're moving at a CONSTANT velocity then the net force is zero. But if you're falling you're accelerating, and the NET force is a NON ZERO number.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedNucleus
Causal Observer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5963368 - 08/14/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thought experiment:

I jump out of a helicopter that is hovering still. Under the helicopter hangs a rope that is 100 feet long. I fall 100 feet and grab the bottom of the rope. Am I affected by gravity now? I am still far from Earth's surface. I climb up the rope a ways, and then let go for split moments. One second: I fall 5 meters and grab the rope again. A tenth of a second: I fall 0.05 meters and grab the rope again. A millionth of a second: I fall 1E-12 meters and grab the rope again. Did gravity stop affecting me whenever my fingers left the rope? Did gravity somehow stop affecting me entirely for a millionth of a second, and then slam right back? I would imagine that if this was true, it would be extremely destructive to my body.


--------------------
Namaste


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5963657 - 08/14/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

When you're freefalling, you don't feel a force but you're still subjected to one. F = ma, man. = ) If you're accelerating, a force is being applied.

Granted, "forces" are a kind of kludged way of dealing with physics. Hamiltonian mechanics is in some ways more "fundamental" than Newtonian mechanics and don't involve the use of forces at all.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Mage
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
Re: Vacuum. [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5963672 - 08/14/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here's one :grin:

If you put a supermassive black hole to the left and one to the right, is the space in between more so a vacuum than in the same space without the supermassive black holes?
The fabric of space sure stretches thin between the two.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5963817 - 08/14/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

When you're freefalling, you don't feel a force

Yzyz, that's what I've been saying. Astronauts don't experience their weight, neither do falling objects. But there IS gravity or there wouldn't be any falling.  :wink:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineiateshaggy
i haxor 360s
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5964006 - 08/14/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

u actualy do feel a force when in free fall. at a certain speed the force of gravity = wind resistance and u stop accelerating (terminal velocity)


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: iateshaggy]
    #5964165 - 08/14/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You experience forces ALL the time. Fg (force of gravity), Fn (normal force), force of friction, etc. Whether they induce a change in your condition (make you move, or stop moving) depends on if there is a net force that is greater than all the other forces.

And if you deny that a force is acting on you because you can't feel it then you're wrong. F=MA.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Edited by DocPsilocybin (08/14/06 08:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5964520 - 08/14/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Vacuum..

Objects placed in a vacuum on Earth still fall, so that can't be right.




Hahaha..

Not true..

But I "wont argue", yet.. :wink::thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: Vacuum. [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5964627 - 08/14/06 11:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Doc Psilocybin said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Cause it is not resting on anything thick enough to sustain its mass.

But if you take the same object out into interstellar space where essentially there is no gravity at all, and then if you don't rest it on anything, it won't fall. Only when it's near a source of gravity, will it fall.

Why would that be?




Vacuum..





Again, sorry I'm not trying to pick on you gomp but maybe there's just something that I'm not seeing in your way of thinking. 

How is vacuum an answer? You're not explaining anything.




..yet...

&

Exactly!

I am questioning..

:wink::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDocPsilocybin
enthusiast

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 588
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vacuum. [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #5965039 - 08/15/06 01:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Mmmkay.

Well that was an entirely unenlightening debate.

If you think you're on a different level of understanding than me then I expect you should be able to have a fluent debate on my level. Answering my questions ambiguously with irrelevant answers doesn't prove you're 'enlightened', and until you can prove that you understand what I'm talking about I will not give you that respect.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedNucleus
Causal Observer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5965359 - 08/15/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

gomp
gpom
gmpo
gmop
gpmo
gopm


--------------------
Namaste


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Gomp]
    #5965432 - 08/15/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

Objects placed in a vacuum on Earth still fall, so that can't be right.




Quote:

Gomp said: Not true..




I can demonstrate that it IS true using a vacuum chamber, and you can see it with your own eyes.

In fact, the Apollo astronauts filmed an experiment for the public in which they dropped a feather and a rock on the moon where there is a perpetual hard vacuum. Both fell, and at the same rate, as predicted by Newton's theory.

That's what's so great about science. Anyone can check up on another's results and see it for themselves.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (08/15/06 03:33 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Mage
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5966280 - 08/15/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In fact, the Apollo astronauts filmed an experiment for the public in which they dropped a feather and a rock on the moon where there is a perpetual hard vacuum. Both fell, and at the same rate, as predicted by Newton's theory.

That's what so great about science. Anyone can check up on another's results and see it for themselves.





Well, not everyone can get a ticket to the moon, and NASA announced just now that the primary footage of the moon landing, the CLEAR imagery, the one the public only saw a smudgy copy of, has gone missing  :grin:

For all we know those "astronauts" don't actually board those rockets but they simply ballistically drop into the ocean.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Asante]
    #5966499 - 08/15/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

footage of the moon landing, the CLEAR imagery, the one the public only saw a smudgy copy of, has gone missing

Yeah, I read about that. How the fuck can such valuable footage just get lost? Did they clean out some old boxes and throw it out by mistake or something? Jeez, you'd think they'd at least have a full-time curator to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. :wtf:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecybrbeast
Up, then down, then...
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 4,777
Loc: event horizon
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Vacuum. [Re: Diploid]
    #5967079 - 08/15/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah this is food for those moon conspiracy guys.
They couldn't have faked it! They left mirrors on the moon and bounce lasers from earth to the moon to measure the distance.

NOFI Gomp, but you are making some weird statements. Could you care to elaborate?


--------------------
futuretribe.space


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Does gravity travel faster than light?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Joe Joe 6,198 97 12/03/10 03:15 PM
by DieCommie
* Speed of Gravity .. cleeen 1,611 9 07/27/07 11:08 AM
by Diploid
* How America mastered anti-gravity technology
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SirLurksalot 9,051 66 01/17/11 09:02 AM
by RationalEgo
* does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar travel?
( 1 2 all )
sleepy 4,369 38 01/15/08 03:26 AM
by karma35
* Arriving at Newton's gravitational force model through messenger particles! Smitington 229 0 11/14/11 08:00 PM
by Smitington
* Gravity automanM 565 8 02/09/10 11:22 PM
by WalterShabas
* Energy from the vacuum....cleaner. HagbardCeline 1,257 14 04/06/10 04:12 AM
by Seuss
* the theory that it takes a large amount of mass to create gravity
( 1 2 3 all )
imachavel 2,836 44 02/19/11 03:22 AM
by imachavel

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, automan, Northerner
4,295 topic views. 2 members, 1 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.