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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Depth Vs. Surface Area
    #5940753 - 08/07/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alright, so everyone knows that in most cases, the deeper the substrate, the more flushes/bigger fruits you get. But also, with more surface area, you have more room for more pins.

So, givin all conditions equal, which do you think would produce more mushrooms.....

A 1' square tray with 6 inches of substrate
or
2 1 foot square trays with 3 inches of substrate

Same volume of substrate...but the latter has twice the surface area, while being half the depth.....

What do yall old hands think?

I havn't had time to test this in the past.

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Offlinemushnoon
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5940775 - 08/07/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think you should use the search function http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5501631


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I love the feeling when it falls apart. Im slow to finish but im quick to start.

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Offlinewiggles
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mushnoon]
    #5940884 - 08/07/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Depth normally adds to potency, and thicker, more solid stems (from my experience). While you would get more pins in theory from a substrate with more surface area but less depth, I doubt it would equate to a larger overall crop. Deeper is far better from what I've seen.


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: wiggles]
    #5940979 - 08/07/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Mush i've been here for years and I'm on my fourth username, for security purposes, I know how to search, I found those same posts you did, but thanks for posting that link because your search did turn up one more that I didnt see. I just found that there were different opinions in all those posts and I wanted to try and get all the old hands together and see what they thought......I saw RK say that two thinner casing would be better than one thicker one, but I saw others say thicker better, as wiggles just said above.

Thanks wiggles....I was thinking that also....they would probably be pretty much the same...just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with it.

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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5940981 - 08/07/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In part, it would depend on what the substrate is.
The substrates fiber consistency, and primary, and macro nutrient content. As well as the substrates ability to absorb, retain, distribute, and rehydrate moisture.

Fairly fresh, but well leached, and dried h/poo contains significant amounts of microbes waiting to go active, the moment they receive adequate moisture, and temperature.

Massive microbial activity that occurs rapidly will create significant internal heat. The deeper the substrate, fuels that activity, and generates more heat.

If you do not have those type h/poo trays situated on wire shelves, or racks, so you can circulate air around then, and regulate (usually cool) that air. Which gives you the ability counteract internal substrate heat generation effectively.

Deeper substrates can often reach fermentation flash point temperatures, and the substrate will begin to ferment. Mycelium falters, fails, and often dies at those higher temperatures. The byproduct of fermentation is alcohol, which is fatal to mycelium. Both effects combined are quickly fatal to affected trays.

Certain composts do not have that type living microbe content just waiting to blast off towards fermenting. Consequently, optimal compost substrate will not usually react like that. The mycelium is the top dog, and does its thing, without any composition, it cannot overcome.

Those type substrates can be 10 to 12 inches deep. But, you most certainly want the ability to circulate regulated cool air around them, if by chance, they to begin to generate more heat than optimal.

The reality is, a set amount of substrate in 1 deeper tray, or divided into 2 shallower trays can have the same B/E.

It all depends on a wide range of variables.


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Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time...
[

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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5941186 - 08/07/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for that in depth response tipp, I always love to read your posts  :thanx:

Good point about the heat...I remember I had a 5 inch deep poo box that was 2'x2' and it got to about 87-88F in a 70F room by itself.

Well, I think the fact is that the B/E is the same in both, so I should get the same eather way, thanks for clearing that up for me. A reason I posted was because I am limited on space (square footage wise, but I have tons of height), so If I can make my sub. 2x deeper (6 inches) and get about the same amount from the eqiv. of 2x the area with a 3 inch substrate (poo), then thats a good thing!

Thanks again tipp

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941203 - 08/07/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i didnt read through the posts so I might be repeating something but youll have higher yields if you do many seperate setups

but yeah im makin a 24 inch deep substrate of hpoo so as to get a 4 foot mushie should be fun

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Offlinemushnoon
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mungojerry]
    #5941207 - 08/07/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Dont quote me on this, but I dont think that a 24" substarte is necassarily going to produce a four foot mushroom.


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I love the feeling when it falls apart. Im slow to finish but im quick to start.

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mushnoon]
    #5941219 - 08/07/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

at least 3 and the record is 2 (psychedelic mushroom that is) it'll work man i haven't had a cake or casing yet that hasn't been double that of the substrate

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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mungojerry]
    #5941295 - 08/07/06 04:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Read what Tipp said above mungo. A 24 inch deep poo substrate would certainly ferment in the center as Tipp said, because in order to keep the core temp below fermentation temps you would have to cool the outer area to well below fruiting temps, just to keep the core heat in check.

Thats just a guess on my part but like I said above, my 5 inch deep poo was about 10-15F higher than the room temp which was 70...and with 2 feet of poo...your going to be cooking in the core.

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941308 - 08/07/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

let it colonize with pvc pipe in the center then remove

problem solved

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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mungojerry]
    #5941315 - 08/07/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mungojerry said:
im makin a 24 inch deep substrate of hpoo so as to get a 4 foot mushie should be fun




not going to happen.
:nonono:


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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: mungojerry]
    #5941322 - 08/07/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

not sure what that would accomplish, besides leaving a big hole in your substrate...even if you put a 6 inch pipe in there you would still have a about a foot of substrate in any direction and still would most likly overheat....but good luck...do a growlog!

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941326 - 08/07/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

multiple pipes

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: monstermitch]
    #5941350 - 08/07/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
Quote:

mungojerry said:
im makin a 24 inch deep substrate of hpoo so as to get a 4 foot mushie should be fun




not going to happen.
:nonono:




why?

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941624 - 08/07/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Surface area is where yield is at.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: hyphae]
    #5941664 - 08/07/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ah shiz hyph. Now you messed me all up. now its you AND RK saying surface area's better. So if you had the choice I had you would go with more surface area eh?

Im currently choosing between 5 12x8 inch trays 6 inch deep sub., or 10 12x8 inch trays 3 inch deep sub......Looks like im going with 10 trays now lol

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OfflineShamrock
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941699 - 08/07/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I would do 7 or 8 trays with about 4" of substrate. I think I read somewhere that 4" substrate is a good substrate depth.


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Mmm... Mushrooms

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: SpookerShroom]
    #5941720 - 08/07/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Understand the casings surface will always become acidic over time giving contams the upper hand also time will eventually give contams better odds SOOO get your highest yields ASAP and you'll be better off. Also you must take into consideration your initial pinset which was BTW created with the momentum of your mycs vegetative growth and is where your yield lies. Remember primordia forms very reluctantly when myc is under fruiting conditions. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleSpookerShroom
Shroomerite
Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
Re: Depth Vs. Surface Area [Re: hyphae]
    #5941756 - 08/07/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks Hyph. Your pinning strat has never let me down, so I'm sure itll work this time to!

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