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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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LSD-dangerous or not? -must read
    #5940220 - 08/07/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have been using this site for months now and i have pored over numerous threads and articles about LSD. Some say it can have disastrous long term effects and others say it is harmless. For example, the article "How to avoid a bad trip" alleges that LSD is suspected of causing "genetic damage". Then, people i know have said stuff like "it pokes holes in your brain" , "it will stay in your spine", or "you will have flash backs for the rest of your life. However, there are others that say it is no more dangerous than psilocybin/psilocin, which i have tripped on. I have created this thread, which i hope is in the right forum, to let all the facts come together. For i have seen many allegations against LSD, as well as support for it.


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


Edited by PSylopHiLe (08/07/06 09:36 AM)


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5940238 - 08/07/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Check out the Erowid Acid Vault.

Good points to note are:

LSD stays in your body/spine (yeah, right!):
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml

LSD makes your brain bleed (hmmm, we'll see shall we?):
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=3022

LSD causes chromosome damage (about as much as water):
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings3.shtml

Not that I'm saying it isn't dangerous but unless you are mentally unsound I would say the risks are minimal.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5940248 - 08/07/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I would say that its not much more dangerous then psilocybin/psilocin...


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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5940271 - 08/07/06 09:52 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The writings seem legitimate, but in the article refuting the allegation that it makes the brain bleed states that LSD may be laced with other drugs. Is there anyone out there that can shed some light on that.
I was thinking about tripping on it as it is more readily available in my area than shrooms.


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5940283 - 08/07/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I do not want to trip without knowing what i am taking. (besides the d-lysergic acid diethylamide)


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? *DELETED* [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5940298 - 08/07/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (08/07/06 10:04 AM)


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InvisibleMourningdove
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5940362 - 08/07/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just use shrooms and cactus and do not ever use LSD, but did 20 years ago. I can say the the genetic damage threat is a myth that the original war on drugs tried to scare people with. I don't know of any of the "LSD casuality" kids that they predicted would be born. I think kids are now being hurt by legal antidepressants and other mood altering substances. It may be a powerful mind altering substance, but is not a danger to genetics...


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Invisiblekake
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: Mourningdove]
    #5940557 - 08/07/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

simple answer - it can be dangerous, but with all the knowledge of it at your disposal on the internet, its very easy to keep it safe, fun, and enlightening. just play by the rules of those who have a LOT of experience with it.

i always tell people dont listen to suggestions by people who have tried it only once or a few times. not that they cant be valid or useful, but as an example, you wouldn't decide whether or not crossing a particular river was safe with only a guide who has done it just a couple times would you?


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? [Re: kake]
    #5940632 - 08/07/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"i don't condone its usage, however i won't advise it."

www.webster.com


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineHeadTripVertigo
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5941273 - 08/07/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PSylopHiLe said:
I have been using this site for months now and i have pored over numerous threads and articles about LSD. Some say it can have disastrous long term effects and others say it is harmless. For example, the article "How to avoid a bad trip" alleges that LSD is suspected of causing "genetic damage". Then, people i know have said stuff like "it pokes holes in your brain" , "it will stay in your spine", or "you will have flash backs for the rest of your life. However, there are others that say it is no more dangerous than psilocybin/psilocin, which i have tripped on. I have created this thread, which i hope is in the right forum, to let all the facts come together. For i have seen many allegations against LSD, as well as support for it.



I'm kinda stoned right now, so I'm noticing things in a different light. It just struck me...your prose is strange, strange like you're giving a speech at a high school graduation or something. Shit it just seemed odd to me.


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TACOS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5941347 - 08/07/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

less dangerous than psylocybin mushrooms
less
truly

when dosed reasonably
no toxicity at all

however there is a lot going on in the mind
and most people are better off gagging on toxins than
facing their demons


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinebluecollarboy
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5941372 - 08/07/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

(Deep thinkers talk shallow till they know ones depth). Then may they flood them with words of depth. Carefully not drowning them in the water of confusion. If you talk humble then others will exalt you. But if you talk high and exalted then you will be humbled. In other words don't talk to people like you're some wise person whey beyond them. But talk to them at their level. Or they'll just think the shrooms have made you crazy. And why should they want to do shrooms if its going to get them to talk like that to their family and friends.


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: bluecollarboy]
    #5941621 - 08/07/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What does this have to do with lsd?


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


Edited by PSylopHiLe (08/07/06 06:10 PM)


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5941641 - 08/07/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HeadTripVertigo said:
Quote:

PSylopHiLe said:
I have been using this site for months now and i have pored over numerous threads and articles about LSD. Some say it can have disastrous long term effects and others say it is harmless. For example, the article "How to avoid a bad trip" alleges that LSD is suspected of causing "genetic damage". Then, people i know have said stuff like "it pokes holes in your brain" , "it will stay in your spine", or "you will have flash backs for the rest of your life. However, there are others that say it is no more dangerous than psilocybin/psilocin, which i have tripped on. I have created this thread, which i hope is in the right forum, to let all the facts come together. For i have seen many allegations against LSD, as well as support for it.



I'm kinda stoned right now, so I'm noticing things in a different light. It just struck me...your prose is strange, strange like you're giving a speech at a high school graduation or something. Shit it just seemed odd to me.



I couldn't think of any other way to say it.


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5941715 - 08/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

almost everything you hear about LSD is a myth. you've got a few risks to consider:

1. a small part of the population reports PHPD from LSD use.
2. a small number of LSD users have terrifying experiences that can lead to psychological problems
3. because of the state of mind it can induce, you may do things that are violent, reckless, or suicidal. i always thought the whole "jumped out a window on acid because he thought he could fly" was another acid myth until i met a parapalegic who'd done just that.

the risks can be mostly mitigated by treating the experience with enough respect to establish good set, setting, and dose. having a sitter may be a good idea too.


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OfflineTheSlapnCapn
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: wilshire]
    #5941789 - 08/07/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i'd say if you can mentally handle shrooms, you can handle acid, as shrooms have a much darker mental side to them...

in terms of physical damage... nah... that doesn't happen...

-j


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I promise to live, love, exist, and be, and hope that all life will love to be in existence with me. Also, fuck you.

-j


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: wilshire]
    #5942315 - 08/07/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
almost everything you hear about LSD is a myth. you've got a few risks to consider:

1. a small part of the population reports PHPD from LSD use.
2. a small number of LSD users have terrifying experiences that can lead to psychological problems
3. because of the state of mind it can induce, you may do things that are violent, reckless, or suicidal. i always thought the whole "jumped out a window on acid because he thought he could fly" was another acid myth until i met a parapalegic who'd done just that.

the risks can be mostly mitigated by treating the experience with enough respect to establish good set, setting, and dose. having a sitter may be a good idea too.



The same rules and risks apply to mushrooms


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5942319 - 08/07/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
less dangerous than psylocybin mushrooms
less
truly

when dosed reasonably
no toxicity at all

however there is a lot going on in the mind
and most people are better off gagging on toxins than
facing their demons




Thats what I was saying. Physically, nothing. Mentally... a lot.


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: TheSlapnCapn]
    #5942321 - 08/07/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheSlapnCapn said:
i'd say if you can mentally handle shrooms, you can handle acid, as shrooms have a much darker mental side to them...

in terms of physical damage... nah... that doesn't happen...

-j



what do you mean by "darker mental side"


--------------------
"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: PSylopHiLe]
    #5942772 - 08/08/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In my experience, and everyone I've met who has done both, acid tends to have a more positive spin, and takes more for the experience to head south. Of course, it will vary from person to person, but this is a very common trend from what I've seen. Having said that, each can be equally dark, one just requires more of a push for many people.

Having said that, though I've had dark times for both, just as I've had bright times (learning much from each as well), my acid days are over. Not because it is worse for me, but because, "2. a small number of LSD users have terrifying experiences that can lead to psychological problems." It wasn't the nature of the drug that caused things to go this way. Just a matter of abusing it, and winding up in a tragic situation (in which someone else might not have suffered that night if I'd chosen not to trip). So, situational indeed.

Not sure when I'd even feel secure doing mushrooms. Probably a year or two from now. But as far as acid goes, it's a simple matter of negative associations with specific characteristics of acid. Like learning to dislike a food from having puked it up a number of times as a kid... only you're instead making an association with one of the most sad and traumatic things of your life.

I'm somewhat concerned even with the drugs aside. I've always been pretty confident in the idea of flashbacks are a rare enough phenomenon that I didn't need to worry about them. However, I'm well aware of how real post traumatic stress disorder is. And that night was the most traumatic, and one of the most stressful experiences of my life.

A wonderful chemical, but unfortunately there are times where one has to learn to let go.

Oh, and as far as those making claims of: brain melting, spine this or that, chromosome damage, permanent trips, or turning into a glass of orange juice... politely correct them with the facts, and witness the automatic defense mode they go in to every single time. Then laugh and shrug them away.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflinePSylopHiLe
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5944294 - 08/08/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Koala Koolio said:
Oh, and as far as those making claims of: brain melting, spine this or that, chromosome damage, permanent trips, or turning into a glass of orange juice... politely correct them with the facts, and witness the automatic defense mode they go in to every single time. Then laugh and shrug them away.



I love when a smart ass tries to act like he/she knows so much about drugs. I always love correcting them, there is a difference between pretending to know the path and walking it. Your last paragraph made me reminisce about my 10th grade history class. We were doing a unit on the latin american drug trade, and the whole class went into argument. I was expressing my stance on US drug laws/penalties when a rich, snotty conservative shouted "lay off the pot!" Others soon followed and criticized my views. I then got up and told all of them that they have no idea what they are talking about and reminded the straight edges of their ignorance. I love correcting the clueless.


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"Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"


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InvisibleGr33nTree73
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5944307 - 08/08/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
less dangerous than psylocybin mushrooms
less
truly

when dosed reasonably
no toxicity at all

however there is a lot going on in the mind
and most people are better off gagging on toxins than
facing their demons




i think you are terribly wrong, LSD is much more harmful on the human body whereas shrooms shouldnt be at all what so ever, ik people that tripped probably 100's of times on LSD and they died during there 50's or 60's from pancreatic cancer, ive never heard of any bad health issues cause by psylocybin.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #5944318 - 08/08/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think he's wrong too. But so are you.

"i think you are terribly wrong, LSD is much more harmful on the human body whereas shrooms shouldnt be at all what so ever"

Sources, please. And what do you mean mushrooms "shouldn't be"?

"ik people that tripped probably 100's of times on LSD and they died during there 50's or 60's from pancreatic cancer, ive never heard of any bad health issues cause by psylocybin. "

(Their)
Care to give any sources linking LSD use to pancreatic cancer? If such a large population of them existed, there would be some sort of study that could back it up. All I hear is, "Speculation this, I've never heard of that."


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #5944320 - 08/08/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

LSD does NOT cause cancer dude. It is in fact, one of the safest drugs, physiologically, known to man. I know countless people who trip, and no one who was actually harmed by LSD. As far as the psychological effects go, I find LSD a lot easier to handle than mushrooms, as do most people I know that trip. Everytime I do shrooms I go on bad trips anymore.....I won't even eat them anymore. I may try them in a tea, but that's it. LSD on the other hand, I can take very heavy doses and handle it perfectly fine. Also, I have learned a lot more, grown a lot more, and have advanced spiritually a lot more from my LSD experiences than I have from shrooms.

Basically, it's like this; To each, his/her own. Some people get along really well with the mushroom, others with LSD. I just happen to be the latter.


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Offlineshortay
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Dark_Star]
    #5944379 - 08/08/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, i have experimented with drugs and have tried LSD around 4 times. Alot of people i talk to(mainly pot smokers who do other stuff) stay away from acid. I have heard that it stays in your spinal cord and only way to detect LSD is a spinal tap(which is illegal, i think) which causes flash backs later on in life. HOW COOL IS THAT!! after you have all grown up got over all your bad habits to have a flashback every blue moon. But the negative effects i heard about LSD is the strips. Because i heard they use arcenic to stick the LSD to the paper and if they maker uses to much it can kill you. IDK thats what i heard, idk if its true or not can anyone clarify?


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: shortay]
    #5944417 - 08/08/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Alot of people i talk to(mainly pot smokers who do other stuff) stay away from acid."

Ah, those with the belief that anything natural is healthy for them, and manmade things are pure danger! It's fine if you want to stick with nature, it can be a good feeling. But when you push these beliefs on to others you belong in the group I call the Natural Druggie religion (or cult) as that's essentially what it is. The belief that god put these things there for you. Ask them if they'd like to go munch some datura while you eat a perfectly safe drug, heh. Even cocaine is made by that big invisible (slash/imaginary) man in the sky. It's just purified by the smaller invisible men down here on earth.

"I have heard that it stays in your spinal cord and only way to detect LSD is a spinal tap(which is illegal, i think) which causes flash backs later on in life."

No, and no. It can be detected after a short period of time, it's just never looked for. It does not stay in the spinal cord. It is very easily destroyed by heat. Both hot summer days and 98.6 degree human bodies. Not only that, it's metabolized by the same enzymes that metabolize serotonin and other neurotransmitters. Much of the LSD is gone by the time you feel it, and nearly all within a few hours. A couple days to be 100% free of metabolites, I believe.

"But the negative effects i heard about LSD is the strips. Because i heard they use arcenic to stick the LSD to the paper and if they maker uses to much it can kill you."

No. LSD is a crystal that is disolved in liquid. The paper is dipped in the liquid, and left to dry. End of story.

Thank you for being among those who question the constant stream of bullshit.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineDyeGreen
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5944560 - 08/08/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here are my thoughts... After you do acid, your body and mind just feel completely out of gas, and sometimes like you were hit by a choo-choo train. Anything that makes you feel that way, can't be GOOD for you, but how BAD is it for you? I'm not sure. But in the same way look at drinking - it gives you a hangover and makes you feel like crap the next day... Does that mean it's terrible for you? Nah... but it's smart to listen to your body and realize how often and how much of something is OK for you.

As far as mental effects, I'd say LSD has about the same long term effects as any other "trip" drug out there.


Edited by DyeGreen (08/08/06 03:43 PM)


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5944632 - 08/08/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I agree about the mental part. Vague, but that's the best we can do until some proper research is had. It would be stupid to say there are no mental effects, but we need to make it clear that it isn't the demon that people claim. This is a tough balance to keep, but we musn't let it push us down the road of claiming 100% safety for something that is obviously not so.

As far as physical effects... it depends what you mean by not good for you. Not good for you the next day, because you feel tired out? Yes, well, clearly. In the same way that staying up all night and feeling tired after minimal sleep is bad for you: It feels bad. But does this offer any evidence of lasting harm? Certainly not. I don't think anyone here will deny that a trip can be extremely exhausting.

I completely agree that you should listen to your body, and not stress it out too much. On any substance, or activity, or... food? But I think by the time you get any serious body issues from stress as a result of LSD, your mental status might need a checkup much much more. Even if that simply means finding out why you're abusing a drug so hard.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineSheepish
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5944637 - 08/08/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Drinking is actually terrible for you (at least, getting to the point where you have a horrible hangover the next day). But that's a personal choice.

Anyways, is LSD dangerous? As others have said, probably no more dangerous then mushrooms. Forget this whole "natural vs synthetic" idea - LSD is still far less toxic than aspirin.
The theory that it caused chromosome damage was never, ever proven. It was suspected back in the 60's/70's that all the acid freaks would give birth to deformed babies. This didn't happen. Just because it hasn't been disproven that it causes chromosome damage, doesn't mean it could or does. People have and still are giving birth to healthy children, even after taking LSD.

As for mentally dangerous, again, on par with mushrooms. Some people think flashbacks and HPPD are only caused by LSD, but it can be caused by either. Flashbacks are caused by traumatic experiences, not by a particular substance being ingested. I've had far more traumatic experiences involving mushrooms than LSD.

I still love both, but I prefer LSD for it's lighter body load.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
    #5944666 - 08/08/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sheepish said:
The theory that it caused chromosome damage was never, ever proven.



Not only that, I don't think it had anything even resembling a scientific basis, even in theory.

Quote:

Sheepish said:
As for mentally dangerous, again, on par with mushrooms. Some people think flashbacks and HPPD are only caused by LSD, but it can be caused by either. Flashbacks are caused by traumatic experiences, not by a particular substance being ingested. I've had far more traumatic experiences involving mushrooms than LSD.





Indeed. My personal opinion is that LSD has more of a reputation of this trauma for a few reasons.

During the 60's, it was everywhere, and dirt cheap. You didn't need to break the bank to trip all the time.

Like you said, mushrooms have more of a body load. I have heard of and witnessed many more people having bad times on mushrooms. Same goes for myself. Both can be bad, but LSD needs more of a push, IME. I haven't seen mushrooms be abused nearly as much as acid. After an acid trip, I usually find myself excited to think of the next time I could possibly do it. With mushrooms, I feel like I need a break from *everything* for a long time.

And mushrooms were certainly abused less often in the 60's. Regardless of the differences in the two drugs, mushrooms simply weren't around. It was an iconic symbol of the 60's, but people weren't popping them constantly like acid. The only mushrooms around came from treks to mexico. It'd probably be best to get MJshroomer to explain the history properly. But if I recall his posts, cubensis weren't even known as a psychedelic mushroom commonly occuring in the southern US. And the cyan popularity didn't begin until the early 70's, I believe. Even so, imagine the 60's relying completely on picked mushrooms. Cube cultivation didn't become popular until High Times ads rolled around later on.


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OfflineDyeGreen
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
    #5945031 - 08/08/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Haha yeah I know drinking is terrible for you, but the point was just to put things into perspective... One of my FAVORITE things to argue with head haters about is how they can tell me I can't shroom or smoke a bowl because its so bad for me, while we're both sitting around taking shots on a Saturday... It cracks me up every time. "How many people have died from pot, acid, or mushrooms?"... "Ok, how many people do you know who have had to go to the hospital cause they drank too much?"... Game over.

Quote:

Sheepish said:

LSD is still far less toxic than aspirin.





Not saying its not true, just curious... What defines "toxic" and is there proof? I'd be glad to hear this if it is infact true.


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OfflineKingDavid
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5945086 - 08/08/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's amazing what drug propaganda is doing to people!

LSD is physically completely safe . . the only risks are psychological. If you have some sort of disorder and you're taking medication to keep that disorder at bay, expect LSD to open up the floodgates to insanity. It can worsen anxiety problems. At the same time it can improve anxiety problems and open your eyes to the beauty that is life!


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: KingDavid]
    #5945108 - 08/08/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It's amazing what drug propaganda is doing to people!
LSD is physically completely safe . . the only risks are psychological.





No it is not :mad:

LSD is contraindicated in people with certain cardiovascular disorder and in epileptics, because it can provoke heart attacks and cause severe epileptic episodes. (Stanislav Grof - LSD Psychotherapy)

Its amazing how love is blind. People who love pot or LSD go to great lengths to defend their drug of choice, and close their eyes for very real risks rather than accepting and striving to avoid them.


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OfflineKingDavid
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
    #5945213 - 08/08/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ahh, I didn't know that . .

. . pardon my ignorance.

It's still relatively very safe for you physically, though.


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Offlineheidegger
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: KingDavid]
    #5945253 - 08/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I don't have first-hand experience with this substance, but I do a lot of reading in forums like this one.

Observation 1:
Many people on such discussion boards are in denial of the seriousness of the risk of developing HPPD. HPPD can decrease the quality of life quite significantly, altough many users deny that to ("oh, I have some trouble reading, because the text is spinning all the time, but hey, it's a cool effect").

Observation 2:
The risk of developing HPPD definitly seems much higher with certain substances. It is obvious to me that the risk of developing HPPD with LSD is significantly higher compared to other substances (e.g. Psilocybin). This is a neurological effect (I guess it has to do with an increase in neuronal plasticity) and does not have much to do with 'bad trips' or traumatic experiences (again, many people are saying that, but this seems to be yet another strategy to downplay the risks of HPPD)


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OfflineSheepish
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5945254 - 08/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I use the definition of toxic as in "The amount required to fatally overdose". The LD50 for LSD hasn't been accurately calculated, and I think I've only heard of one case of a fatality (IV of a ridiculous amount of acid thinking it was something else).
Aspirin on the other hand, is pretty nasty on the liver. A few thousand people a year die from using aspirin (not sure on exact figures), from either overdoses or complications/reactions.

In that sense, LSD is far less toxic than aspirin - you'd be hard pressed to overdose on LSD to actually kill yourself.

But, as Wiccan pointed out, if you have heart problems or complications, you MIGHT run into problems. I guess that's standard for most things that raise the heart rate (including roller coaster rides).

In healthy people, I think you'll be relatively safe in the physical sense.



EDIT: I said traumatic experiences are what cause flashbacks (not HPPD!). The 2 are entirely different. I don't believe HPPD is more common on LSD than psilocybin.


Edited by Sheepish (08/08/06 07:06 PM)


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OfflineDyeGreen
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
    #5945471 - 08/08/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone have any more information on the increased risk of heart attack? I have a heart murmur, which as far as I know doesn't effect my day to day life too much except I have to take a pill before I go to the dentist, oddly enough. I know this is getting deep into medical talk here, but now i'm concerned that i'm a higher / unsafe risk for stuff like this... hmm


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5945501 - 08/08/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What kind of murmur, and what kind of pill?

I can't dispense medical advice, but the impression I got is that the heart attack risk is predominantly associated with intense emotions.

Nontheless serotonin effects may be directly involved.


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OfflineDyeGreen
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
    #5945565 - 08/08/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ah if I remember it has to do with a valve not closing correctly or all the way, and the pill is "Amoxicillin" which I just googled, and it looks like its a penicillin based antibiotic. :smile:


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5946370 - 08/09/06 01:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You all want proof? heres your proof:
Albert Hofmann has been tripping acid for longer than anyone on Earth (he discovered the drug in 1936 for god's sake), and, at 100 years old, the man is still going strong and has a healthy brain.

Want some scientific proof? Too bad.
Because of some peoples' foolish decision to make it illegal to study LSD, we have very little evidence to support any of the claims made about the drug.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
    #5946554 - 08/09/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
LSD is contraindicated in people with certain cardiovascular disorder and in epileptics, because it can provoke heart attacks and cause severe epileptic episodes. (Stanislav Grof - LSD Psychotherapy)




if there are not any simmilar contra-indications for psilocybin or mescalein, I would say it only means that these other coumpounds, natural or not, have been less seriously considered by those groups of doctors.

I have 37 years of experience with them and I do love them all, but I have the most distinct impression that lsd carries the least non-psychedelic toxin with it (probably none), the body reels at what the mind feels afterwards with some weariness and sore muscles.

also the unusually high LD-50 says a lot about this compound which is active in such tiny quantities.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
    #5946558 - 08/09/06 04:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DyeGreen said:
Anyone have any more information on the increased risk of heart attack? I have a heart murmur, which as far as I know doesn't effect my day to day life too much except I have to take a pill before I go to the dentist, oddly enough. I know this is getting deep into medical talk here, but now i'm concerned that i'm a higher / unsafe risk for stuff like this... hmm




My Dad quit smoking pot when he experienced his heart racing. I've felt that at times too.


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Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #5946573 - 08/09/06 04:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

what the fuck? Name one confirmed death from pancreatic cancer caused by LSD consumption! That is absolute bullshit.
LSD is metabolised by the human body easier than caffiene! Other than mild stimulation of the autonomic nervous system and serotonin receptor drenching it is quite harmless.
The only real dangers are psychological and I can tell you that if youve taken mushrooms and can handle them you will be fine on LSD, which is generally much more forgiving and easier to manage. And so much more insightful as well.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
    #5946577 - 08/09/06 04:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, since the threat for cardiovascular diseased individuals relates only to the stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system caused by excess release of norepinephrine and epinephrine, its no greater than from say four cups of coffee or a fright.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Booby]
    #5946580 - 08/09/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The heart racing is caused by a drop in blood pressure and is completely harmless.
THC can effect postural bloodpressure. A person who is suceptible will get a sudden drop in blood pressure which causes the sympathetic nervous system to become overactive to counter this - by increasing heart beat to increase blood pressure and flow to the brain - but the side effects of this autonomic function are anxiety, hand tremors and feeling dizzy.


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5947523 - 08/09/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KingDavid said:
It's amazing what drug propaganda is doing to people!

LSD is physically completely safe . . the only risks are psychological.




I find it pretty silly to make little of psychological effects in such a way. If and when I ever do worry about my use of drugs, it is always the psychological side.

Yes, it can bring up things which are pre-existing. But no, you have no idea about the workings of your own subconscious. It's a small risk we're all aware of, and clearly we find it worth the risk.

"Observation 2:
The risk of developing HPPD definitly seems much higher with certain substances. It is obvious to me that the risk of developing HPPD with LSD is significantly higher compared to other substances (e.g. Psilocybin). This is a neurological effect (I guess it has to do with an increase in neuronal plasticity) and does not have much to do with 'bad trips' or traumatic experiences (again, many people are saying that, but this seems to be yet another strategy to downplay the risks of HPPD"

It would seem so, yes. This is one of the worst problems. There is no research to suggest that one or the other is actually more likely to cause HPPD. As I mentioned in an earlier post, *my* observation is that LSD is easier to abuse, and has a longer history of widescale "abuse". I also observe the apparent 2C-I HPPD association. No RC can be compared to LSD or Mushrooms for this likeliness, simply because they're used on a much smaller scale. But compared to all the other chems people buy nearly as much, 2C-I seems to have a *much* larger HPPD turnout.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #5955755 - 08/12/06 05:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I dont think its silly, more I was approaching the issue from the physical wellbeing side, since the psychological are already commonly noted.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5955791 - 08/12/06 06:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

oddly, the whole attraction to bioactive chemistry agents in this sector is because they have sensory and psychological effects.

When we find a few chemicals with predictable psychological effects and no DIRECT body load, why does that make them suspicious?

for instance with salvia and lsd, one can dose to extreme mental/sensory discomfort with no direct celullar or tissue damage, not even nausea (except for the imagined sort from a kind of dizziness or an imagined invasion of the gut or vision of some hideous gut-wrenching sort)

Other compounds will introduce retching and nausea or outright physical pain, blood vessel constrictions, liver damage etc. long before the dose becomes so mentally challenging as is easily achieved with lsd or salvia.

this makes comparisons without a good scale to measure psychological/ sensory (psychedelic) effects inappropriate.

Relative effective psychedelic dosage is always a factor.

bear in mind I adore mushroom & cactus and appreciate them as much as lsd or salvia when available and the opportunity is suitable to have a nice session - this is not a favoritism based comment.


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