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PSylopHiLe
stoner


Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 86
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5944294 - 08/08/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Koala Koolio said: Oh, and as far as those making claims of: brain melting, spine this or that, chromosome damage, permanent trips, or turning into a glass of orange juice... politely correct them with the facts, and witness the automatic defense mode they go in to every single time. Then laugh and shrug them away.
I love when a smart ass tries to act like he/she knows so much about drugs. I always love correcting them, there is a difference between pretending to know the path and walking it. Your last paragraph made me reminisce about my 10th grade history class. We were doing a unit on the latin american drug trade, and the whole class went into argument. I was expressing my stance on US drug laws/penalties when a rich, snotty conservative shouted "lay off the pot!" Others soon followed and criticized my views. I then got up and told all of them that they have no idea what they are talking about and reminded the straight edges of their ignorance. I love correcting the clueless.
-------------------- "Try not to let your mind wander, it might not come back"
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Gr33nTree73


Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 4,095
Loc: 585/843
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: redgreenvines]
#5944307 - 08/08/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: less dangerous than psylocybin mushrooms less truly
when dosed reasonably no toxicity at all
however there is a lot going on in the mind and most people are better off gagging on toxins than facing their demons
i think you are terribly wrong, LSD is much more harmful on the human body whereas shrooms shouldnt be at all what so ever, ik people that tripped probably 100's of times on LSD and they died during there 50's or 60's from pancreatic cancer, ive never heard of any bad health issues cause by psylocybin.
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Gr33nTree73]
#5944318 - 08/08/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think he's wrong too. But so are you.
"i think you are terribly wrong, LSD is much more harmful on the human body whereas shrooms shouldnt be at all what so ever"
Sources, please. And what do you mean mushrooms "shouldn't be"?
"ik people that tripped probably 100's of times on LSD and they died during there 50's or 60's from pancreatic cancer, ive never heard of any bad health issues cause by psylocybin. " (Their) Care to give any sources linking LSD use to pancreatic cancer? If such a large population of them existed, there would be some sort of study that could back it up. All I hear is, "Speculation this, I've never heard of that."
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Gr33nTree73]
#5944320 - 08/08/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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LSD does NOT cause cancer dude. It is in fact, one of the safest drugs, physiologically, known to man. I know countless people who trip, and no one who was actually harmed by LSD. As far as the psychological effects go, I find LSD a lot easier to handle than mushrooms, as do most people I know that trip. Everytime I do shrooms I go on bad trips anymore.....I won't even eat them anymore. I may try them in a tea, but that's it. LSD on the other hand, I can take very heavy doses and handle it perfectly fine. Also, I have learned a lot more, grown a lot more, and have advanced spiritually a lot more from my LSD experiences than I have from shrooms.
Basically, it's like this; To each, his/her own. Some people get along really well with the mushroom, others with LSD. I just happen to be the latter.
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shortay
New

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 20
Loc: 30min from ATL
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Dark_Star]
#5944379 - 08/08/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, i have experimented with drugs and have tried LSD around 4 times. Alot of people i talk to(mainly pot smokers who do other stuff) stay away from acid. I have heard that it stays in your spinal cord and only way to detect LSD is a spinal tap(which is illegal, i think) which causes flash backs later on in life. HOW COOL IS THAT!! after you have all grown up got over all your bad habits to have a flashback every blue moon. But the negative effects i heard about LSD is the strips. Because i heard they use arcenic to stick the LSD to the paper and if they maker uses to much it can kill you. IDK thats what i heard, idk if its true or not can anyone clarify?
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: shortay]
#5944417 - 08/08/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Alot of people i talk to(mainly pot smokers who do other stuff) stay away from acid."
Ah, those with the belief that anything natural is healthy for them, and manmade things are pure danger! It's fine if you want to stick with nature, it can be a good feeling. But when you push these beliefs on to others you belong in the group I call the Natural Druggie religion (or cult) as that's essentially what it is. The belief that god put these things there for you. Ask them if they'd like to go munch some datura while you eat a perfectly safe drug, heh. Even cocaine is made by that big invisible (slash/imaginary) man in the sky. It's just purified by the smaller invisible men down here on earth.
"I have heard that it stays in your spinal cord and only way to detect LSD is a spinal tap(which is illegal, i think) which causes flash backs later on in life."
No, and no. It can be detected after a short period of time, it's just never looked for. It does not stay in the spinal cord. It is very easily destroyed by heat. Both hot summer days and 98.6 degree human bodies. Not only that, it's metabolized by the same enzymes that metabolize serotonin and other neurotransmitters. Much of the LSD is gone by the time you feel it, and nearly all within a few hours. A couple days to be 100% free of metabolites, I believe.
"But the negative effects i heard about LSD is the strips. Because i heard they use arcenic to stick the LSD to the paper and if they maker uses to much it can kill you."
No. LSD is a crystal that is disolved in liquid. The paper is dipped in the liquid, and left to dry. End of story.
Thank you for being among those who question the constant stream of bullshit.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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DyeGreen
Super Stud
Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 217
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Koala Koolio]
#5944560 - 08/08/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here are my thoughts... After you do acid, your body and mind just feel completely out of gas, and sometimes like you were hit by a choo-choo train. Anything that makes you feel that way, can't be GOOD for you, but how BAD is it for you? I'm not sure. But in the same way look at drinking - it gives you a hangover and makes you feel like crap the next day... Does that mean it's terrible for you? Nah... but it's smart to listen to your body and realize how often and how much of something is OK for you.
As far as mental effects, I'd say LSD has about the same long term effects as any other "trip" drug out there.
Edited by DyeGreen (08/08/06 03:43 PM)
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5944632 - 08/08/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree about the mental part. Vague, but that's the best we can do until some proper research is had. It would be stupid to say there are no mental effects, but we need to make it clear that it isn't the demon that people claim. This is a tough balance to keep, but we musn't let it push us down the road of claiming 100% safety for something that is obviously not so.
As far as physical effects... it depends what you mean by not good for you. Not good for you the next day, because you feel tired out? Yes, well, clearly. In the same way that staying up all night and feeling tired after minimal sleep is bad for you: It feels bad. But does this offer any evidence of lasting harm? Certainly not. I don't think anyone here will deny that a trip can be extremely exhausting.
I completely agree that you should listen to your body, and not stress it out too much. On any substance, or activity, or... food? But I think by the time you get any serious body issues from stress as a result of LSD, your mental status might need a checkup much much more. Even if that simply means finding out why you're abusing a drug so hard.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Sheepish


Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5944637 - 08/08/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Drinking is actually terrible for you (at least, getting to the point where you have a horrible hangover the next day). But that's a personal choice.
Anyways, is LSD dangerous? As others have said, probably no more dangerous then mushrooms. Forget this whole "natural vs synthetic" idea - LSD is still far less toxic than aspirin. The theory that it caused chromosome damage was never, ever proven. It was suspected back in the 60's/70's that all the acid freaks would give birth to deformed babies. This didn't happen. Just because it hasn't been disproven that it causes chromosome damage, doesn't mean it could or does. People have and still are giving birth to healthy children, even after taking LSD.
As for mentally dangerous, again, on par with mushrooms. Some people think flashbacks and HPPD are only caused by LSD, but it can be caused by either. Flashbacks are caused by traumatic experiences, not by a particular substance being ingested. I've had far more traumatic experiences involving mushrooms than LSD.
I still love both, but I prefer LSD for it's lighter body load.
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
#5944666 - 08/08/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sheepish said: The theory that it caused chromosome damage was never, ever proven.
Not only that, I don't think it had anything even resembling a scientific basis, even in theory.
Quote:
Sheepish said: As for mentally dangerous, again, on par with mushrooms. Some people think flashbacks and HPPD are only caused by LSD, but it can be caused by either. Flashbacks are caused by traumatic experiences, not by a particular substance being ingested. I've had far more traumatic experiences involving mushrooms than LSD.
Indeed. My personal opinion is that LSD has more of a reputation of this trauma for a few reasons.
During the 60's, it was everywhere, and dirt cheap. You didn't need to break the bank to trip all the time.
Like you said, mushrooms have more of a body load. I have heard of and witnessed many more people having bad times on mushrooms. Same goes for myself. Both can be bad, but LSD needs more of a push, IME. I haven't seen mushrooms be abused nearly as much as acid. After an acid trip, I usually find myself excited to think of the next time I could possibly do it. With mushrooms, I feel like I need a break from *everything* for a long time.
And mushrooms were certainly abused less often in the 60's. Regardless of the differences in the two drugs, mushrooms simply weren't around. It was an iconic symbol of the 60's, but people weren't popping them constantly like acid. The only mushrooms around came from treks to mexico. It'd probably be best to get MJshroomer to explain the history properly. But if I recall his posts, cubensis weren't even known as a psychedelic mushroom commonly occuring in the southern US. And the cyan popularity didn't begin until the early 70's, I believe. Even so, imagine the 60's relying completely on picked mushrooms. Cube cultivation didn't become popular until High Times ads rolled around later on.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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DyeGreen
Super Stud
Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 217
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
#5945031 - 08/08/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Haha yeah I know drinking is terrible for you, but the point was just to put things into perspective... One of my FAVORITE things to argue with head haters about is how they can tell me I can't shroom or smoke a bowl because its so bad for me, while we're both sitting around taking shots on a Saturday... It cracks me up every time. "How many people have died from pot, acid, or mushrooms?"... "Ok, how many people do you know who have had to go to the hospital cause they drank too much?"... Game over.
Quote:
Sheepish said:
LSD is still far less toxic than aspirin.
Not saying its not true, just curious... What defines "toxic" and is there proof? I'd be glad to hear this if it is infact true.
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KingDavid
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5945086 - 08/08/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's amazing what drug propaganda is doing to people!
LSD is physically completely safe . . the only risks are psychological. If you have some sort of disorder and you're taking medication to keep that disorder at bay, expect LSD to open up the floodgates to insanity. It can worsen anxiety problems. At the same time it can improve anxiety problems and open your eyes to the beauty that is life!
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: KingDavid]
#5945108 - 08/08/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's amazing what drug propaganda is doing to people! LSD is physically completely safe . . the only risks are psychological.
No it is not 
LSD is contraindicated in people with certain cardiovascular disorder and in epileptics, because it can provoke heart attacks and cause severe epileptic episodes. (Stanislav Grof - LSD Psychotherapy)
Its amazing how love is blind. People who love pot or LSD go to great lengths to defend their drug of choice, and close their eyes for very real risks rather than accepting and striving to avoid them.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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KingDavid
Stranger
Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 76
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
#5945213 - 08/08/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ahh, I didn't know that . .
. . pardon my ignorance.
It's still relatively very safe for you physically, though.
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heidegger
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 89
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: KingDavid]
#5945253 - 08/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't have first-hand experience with this substance, but I do a lot of reading in forums like this one.
Observation 1: Many people on such discussion boards are in denial of the seriousness of the risk of developing HPPD. HPPD can decrease the quality of life quite significantly, altough many users deny that to ("oh, I have some trouble reading, because the text is spinning all the time, but hey, it's a cool effect").
Observation 2: The risk of developing HPPD definitly seems much higher with certain substances. It is obvious to me that the risk of developing HPPD with LSD is significantly higher compared to other substances (e.g. Psilocybin). This is a neurological effect (I guess it has to do with an increase in neuronal plasticity) and does not have much to do with 'bad trips' or traumatic experiences (again, many people are saying that, but this seems to be yet another strategy to downplay the risks of HPPD)
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Sheepish


Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5945254 - 08/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I use the definition of toxic as in "The amount required to fatally overdose". The LD50 for LSD hasn't been accurately calculated, and I think I've only heard of one case of a fatality (IV of a ridiculous amount of acid thinking it was something else). Aspirin on the other hand, is pretty nasty on the liver. A few thousand people a year die from using aspirin (not sure on exact figures), from either overdoses or complications/reactions.
In that sense, LSD is far less toxic than aspirin - you'd be hard pressed to overdose on LSD to actually kill yourself.
But, as Wiccan pointed out, if you have heart problems or complications, you MIGHT run into problems. I guess that's standard for most things that raise the heart rate (including roller coaster rides).
In healthy people, I think you'll be relatively safe in the physical sense.
EDIT: I said traumatic experiences are what cause flashbacks (not HPPD!). The 2 are entirely different. I don't believe HPPD is more common on LSD than psilocybin.
Edited by Sheepish (08/08/06 07:06 PM)
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DyeGreen
Super Stud
Registered: 10/12/05
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Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Sheepish]
#5945471 - 08/08/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Anyone have any more information on the increased risk of heart attack? I have a heart murmur, which as far as I know doesn't effect my day to day life too much except I have to take a pill before I go to the dentist, oddly enough. I know this is getting deep into medical talk here, but now i'm concerned that i'm a higher / unsafe risk for stuff like this... hmm
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5945501 - 08/08/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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What kind of murmur, and what kind of pill?
I can't dispense medical advice, but the impression I got is that the heart attack risk is predominantly associated with intense emotions.
Nontheless serotonin effects may be directly involved.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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DyeGreen
Super Stud
Registered: 10/12/05
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: Asante]
#5945565 - 08/08/06 08:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah if I remember it has to do with a valve not closing correctly or all the way, and the pill is "Amoxicillin" which I just googled, and it looks like its a penicillin based antibiotic.
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Lysergic_Milkman
Dr. Fist


Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 1,676
Loc: ATL
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Re: LSD-dangerous or not? -must read [Re: DyeGreen]
#5946370 - 08/09/06 01:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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You all want proof? heres your proof: Albert Hofmann has been tripping acid for longer than anyone on Earth (he discovered the drug in 1936 for god's sake), and, at 100 years old, the man is still going strong and has a healthy brain.
Want some scientific proof? Too bad. Because of some peoples' foolish decision to make it illegal to study LSD, we have very little evidence to support any of the claims made about the drug.
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