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Offlinersimoa
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Pins skipping a step?!
    #5939579 - 08/07/06 01:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe this isn't so weird, but I have pins that seem to have skipped a step. I made my casings, but them in the fruiting chamber (in the dark for a few days)... nothin'. The mycellium just wasn't poking through. So I turned on the light for few days just for kicks... still nothin'. It just wasn't colonizing the top later even after 10 days. So I was ready to about give up, turned off the light, but too lazy to do much more about it. Then today I was going to go in there and clean everything out and whoa and behold, little guys are popping up everywhere. Yet, still, no mycellium on the top layer. It's as if the pins are growing straight from the substrate through the top layer casing.

So is this weird, or is it just me? I'm not really complaining.., I mean, a mushroom is a mushroom no matter how it grows, right? And the pins look great. I just thought it was odd that the top of my casing doesn't have any mycellium, just pins.


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"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: rsimoa]
    #5939608 - 08/07/06 01:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Not that weird. You said that you put it back into the fruiting chamber, did you initiate any of the fruiting triggers?? That would be my first thought. Instead of incubating it for a couple of days you started fruiting right away, thus not allowing the mycelium to colonize your casing layer.


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"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5939692 - 08/07/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I don't use an incubator because my place stays at about 80F anyway.  So I just kept the casings in the fruiting chamber in the dark for about 3-4 days.  When I didn't see any mycellium poking through, I turned the light on anyway.  The light was on for about 6 days and I still wasn't getting anything.  So I just turned the light off and had planned to give up on it.  But then 2 days after the light being off I look inside and see all these pins.  So now I have the light back on. 

::shrug::  Oh well... I hope they keep up the good growing.  They're so cute.  :smile:


--------------------
"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: rsimoa]
    #5939865 - 08/07/06 04:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol, shit happens, let it go.


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"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: rsimoa]
    #5939879 - 08/07/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It is possible, the casing mix Ph was off.
But, not so far off, it was fatal.

Primordia probably formed on the substrate surface.
Then, grew upward towards the light.
Thus, pushing themselves through the thin casing layer, between the two.

All might go well?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5940077 - 08/07/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've been saying it for years, but this myth about light continues on and on. I'd really like to know how these urban(myco) myths just keep going and going.

LIGHT IS NOT THE MAJOR PINNING TRIGGER FOR MUSHROOMS!

In fact, light isn't even the major factor in which direction mushrooms grow. Wind or other air currents is the first. Light is the second, then finally gravity is the third.

As for pinning, full colonization of the substrate is the most important pinning trigger. If there are contaminants present in a substrate, the mushroom mycelium generally stops growing when it contacts them. This represents full colonization because the mycelium has hit a natural barrier, and often pins begin to develop, whether light is present or not.

The second most important pinning trigger is an increase in air exchange, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels that occurs simultaneously. When you uncover a tray to look at it, you allow the CO2 to escape and be replaced by fresh air. THIS is a pinning trigger, even if you do it in the dark.

Third, which goes along with second, is a steady rate of evaporation of moisture from the substrate or casing layer. In the artifical environment of a small tray, we must mist to keep the substrate or casing from drying out, but we also must allow that moisture to evaporate off between mistings.

Fourth, when the above three triggers are active, light becomes a pinning/growth initiation factor.

If one waits too long to apply the casing layer, or the other factors listed above are in effect prior to light OR the casing layer being applied, primordia will begin to form, which will then push up through to the surface, whether or not it has been fully or even partially colonized. By the same token, if light is applied and the other, more important factors have not been met, primordia will NOT form.

This is why experienced growers, such as commercial spawn producers who make their entire living incubating mushroom mycelium, make absolutely NO effort to incubate in the dark. It isn't necessary. People will have much more success in the hobby when they understand that.
RR


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5940176 - 08/07/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks RR and all.

With all this enlightening information, I still can't really say for sure what could have triggered the pinning. The substrate was completely well colonized before I cased. My fruiting chamber has a sizable vent stuffed with polyfil. So I think the gas exchange has probably been decent throughout. In those 10 days before pinning, I only opened it maybe 4 times.

My thought now is perhaps that I let the top layer dry out, so the mycellium couldn't colonize it and just "decided" to start pinning. As RR described, maybe when it hit the dry substrate it hit a barrier of sorts.

But I'll let y'all know what happens with it. They look just fine so far. I don't see any contams, but who knows?


--------------------
"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: rsimoa]
    #5941678 - 08/07/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've been saying this also for years that one of the little recognized pinning triggers is the survival trigger which occurs at full colonization. Now I certainly would never say that light is not a pinning trigger or the absents of it being crucial the a good pinning strategy it does although provide more than just lumens it can also provide additional transpiration of the casings surface and a tall stand of maturing fruitbodies will provide better ventilation of the casings surface which will aid future flushes. When commercial growers incubate they are not concerned with total darkness and when a casing is used that then becomes the mycs total darkness until it breaks the surface, remember it is never just one trigger that makes a difference but the coincidence of all the triggers that really gives you the best bang for your buck! GL guys


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: hyphae]
    #5946245 - 08/09/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, if anyone is curious, here's what the shrooms ended up looking like.  Not too bad if you ask me... :wink:



--------------------
"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: rsimoa]
    #5946260 - 08/09/06 12:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Not to bad at all. Enjoy!


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: Pins skipping a step?! [Re: musher_420]
    #5946318 - 08/09/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks. And not to brag or anything, but my mushrooms have been really potent so far. I hope these are too.


--------------------
"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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