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thatiAM
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Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: leery11]
#5938901 - 08/06/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sure. By fall into love I don't mean fall in love with another person, although that's nice too. I just mean this: Notice how love exists? Not just a flavor of love like love of a woman or love of the weekend, but the stuff of love from which love originates. Love love itself. Love that there is love. This can be done alone in a forest or in new york city.
Just actually take time to love that there is love and appreciate it. This can be done anywhere, anytime. Fall in love with love
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5940751 - 08/07/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.
God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.
I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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thatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
#5941246 - 08/07/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.
Okay, but I didn't say love is God. Through love you will find God.
Quote:
Icelander said: God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.
I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.
Okay, I agree that God can't be defined. That's the point. God is just a word, Tao is just a word. Is either sufficient for what they actually are? No. My God is your Tao 
Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is. To me, anyway. Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever. Just find it.
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Icelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5941472 - 08/07/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thatiAM said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Love (which I believe exists) does not = God.
Okay, but I didn't say love is God. Through love you will find God.
Quote:
Icelander said: God is a limited human concept IMO. Especially for those who define God based on their human emotional needs.
I prefer Tao as a much cleaner concept for all that exists.
Okay, I agree that God can't be defined. That's the point. God is just a word, Tao is just a word. Is either sufficient for what they actually are? No. My God is your Tao 
Just because other people use God as an excuse for war and dogma doesn't mean that's what it really is. To me, anyway. Find it yourself, if it is God or Tao or whatever. Just find it.
The trouble is that when you say God you are talking about a cultural idea that has too many definitions. So I can not agree that because I love I will find God. If I love I have found love and that is it and enough don't you think? That just keeps things a little cleaner for me.
I understand your concept of God may be much more encompassing than your average religious zealot, but how would I know that? The concept of God is much too abused and broad for me to be comfortable with it.And that is why I originally challenged your post.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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thatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Icelander]
#5941711 - 08/07/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:The trouble is that when you say God you are talking about a cultural idea that has too many definitions. So I can not agree that because I love I will find God. If I love I have found love and that is it and enough don't you think? That just keeps things a little cleaner for me.
I understand your concept of God may be much more encompassing than your average religious zealot, but how would I know that? The concept of God is much too abused and broad for me to be comfortable with it.And that is why I originally challenged your post.
Fair enough. Yes, love in itself is wonderful. But you can take it farther than that if you want. If I said I found dragons at the top of a mountain and you stop looking at the foothills then that is fine. But it doesn't mean I'm crazy and dragons don't exist. You just didn't check the top of the mountains yet If checking the foothills is enough for you then certainly I can't make you climb that mountain.
I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call it. Self, spirit, oneness, everything, nothing.
If everyone thinks the world is flat, that doesn't make it flat. If everyone thinks God is vengeful, that doesn't make God vengeful. God or Tao or whatever is what it is, and it's up to you to find out only as much about it as you want. No more, no less. If love is enough then stop there.
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Icelander
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5944172 - 08/08/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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If love is enough then stop there.
Who knows the depths of Love? If I ever get there I will have no other needs, is my guess.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
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Loc: On the Border
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5945364 - 08/08/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call"
I am sorry, but this is meaningless. You are purposefully softening your views with each post to make your softcore, non-threatening, Christianity more attractive. This either a tactic to force agreement in the eyes of the poster...yourself, or an insidious attempt to force agreement in others by appearing non-threatening and new age. State your views plain and quit candy coating them with meaningless, deceptive descriptve terms.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (08/08/06 07:34 PM)
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thatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5945911 - 08/08/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: "I agree that people have silly-ly used God, and you are allowed to disagree with me of course. But for me it is something beautiful that is completely obvious. Please do use your own concept if God doesn't work for you. Whatever it is, it is the same no matter what you call"
I am sorry, but this is meaningless. You are purposefully softening your views with each post to make your softcore, non-threatening, Christianity more attractive. This either a tactic to force agreement in the eyes of the poster...yourself, or an insidious attempt to force agreement in others by appearing non-threatening and new age. State your views plain and quit candy coating them with meaningless, deceptive descriptve terms.
I'm not christian and have not read the bible so I'll have to take your word for it that my views are christian. If your idea of softcore non-threatening Christianity (what I am preaching, apparently) is unappealing to you, you certainly don't have to acknowledge it. I didn't realize I was being that deceptive...Here are my main points:
-I don't give a damn how "aware" you are. I give a damn that you are awake.
-Pretending that fear/uneasy feelings do(es)n't exist is insane. It is here for us to grow and learn from. If it weren't supposed to exist, it wouldn't.
-Freedom/awakeness will never come, it is. Realize this. No need to wait for anything (especially heightened awareness/states of bliss/any other million things that you think makes someone "enlightened") to wake up. You already are awake.
-Start existing from this awakeness. Be willing to learn what life has to offer and teach you, and accept all of it. It means giving up struggling to maintain life, life takes care of itself.
-God is the everything that we are inseparable and no different from. God is here when you stub your toe, God is here when you are bored, and God is here when you are full of peace. God is awakeness.
Huehuecoyotl, I hope you aren't thinking I'm a dick for making a thread titled similarly to yours. That was not my intention to undermine you or anything. I saw your thread title and thought that this would make a good one too Nobody has to do anything to be free, we already are all free. Just realize it and act from that space of freedom. That's all that's needed. If this is non-threatening and you think it should be (or the other way around) then I don't know what to tell you. This is simply what I'm saying.
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Amethyst
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Registered: 10/25/05
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5946548 - 08/09/06 04:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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We are free in our infinite potential but not free in our direct experience, thats what makes life interesting, if we were ALWAYS free, it would be meaningless. Sense of freedom is being in balance & harmony with oneself, tho one must be out of balance to define what balance is..... So freedom is very relative, it must be defined in order for it to exist.
-------------------- "That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."
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thatiAM
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Amethyst]
#5946703 - 08/09/06 07:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree. A big part of freedom to me is not caring about definitions. There is no need to know what it is, you are it. You are awareness. Awareness doesn't have to be defined to be it, and any definition utterly fails. If we were always anything, life would still be valuable. Life would be valuable if you were in jail for your entire life or in a paradise, too. It is not lack of freedom that makes life meaningless, nothing can. Life is always meaningful simply because it is life.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: thatiAM]
#5947939 - 08/09/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I hope you aren't thinking I'm a dick for making a thread titled similarly to yours."
Of course I do not. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery they say. I just made my comment because everytime Icelander posted a rebuttal you softened your point of view. This seems like an evangelical tactic...not the plain expression of ideas. This was just my take and my take alone.
"Pretending that fear/uneasy feelings do(es)n't exist is insane. It is here for us to grow and learn from. If it weren't supposed to exist, it wouldn't."
When did I ever state this that you should make a direct rebuttal of this idea. Fear is real and it does exist in my view, but irrational fear is ...well...irrational.
"No need to wait for anything (especially heightened awareness/states of bliss/any other million things that you think makes someone "enlightened") to wake up. You already are awake."
No one has to wait for an enlightened state. I did not discuss enlightenment as I do not believe that it can be attained. It is a journey not a destination. Awareness is not an unreachable state...and no one has to wait for it...one should just BE aware...no waiting. Action is power. I do not advocate waiting...go back and read my thread. I encouraged pure and uninhibited action.
Your posts here seem more like a rant than an imparting of life experience. As a matter of fact I saw no imparting of any experience which was all (my personal experience) that I discussed in my freedom thread. I don't have to defend practical personal experience as it is based in reality unlike most religions and philosophies based in occult or metaphysical concepts that cannot be proven. I just thought a few others might be interested enough to comment...and you did. Thanks.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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thatiAM
Stranger

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Posts: 1,250
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Re: Freedom through freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5948198 - 08/09/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"irrational fear is ...well...irrational"
Fear is seldom rational 
"No one has to wait for an enlightened state. I did not discuss enlightenment as I do not believe that it can be attained."
Couldn't agree more. Because we already are this enlightenment. How can one attain awareness, or the state of being? It is silly to even ponder, everyone already is! There is nothing to attain there. You are. We are all already what we seek.
"Awareness is not an unreachable state...and no one has to wait for it...one should just BE aware...no waiting. Action is power. I do not advocate waiting...go back and read my thread. I encouraged pure and uninhibited action."
I guess it is just my opinion that awareness comes with time based on what I see this thing we call 'awareness'. Wisdom and understanding cannot be attained by the experiences of others, it requires direct personal experience (well, at least in my experience it does...:lol) I don't know what pure uninhibited action means. If it means acting from the heart instead of the mind, acting out of compassion rather than selfishness...then I agree. I already am, why not ease the existence of others? God has taken care of me. I only want to help and love God. This is my viewpoint, and you are of course free to debase the existence of God or disagree with me all you want. But if it is my way of acting in this way you promote, what problem is there? I simply choose to call it God and I believe in that firmly.
"Your posts here seem more like a rant than an imparting of life experience. As a matter of fact I saw no imparting of any experience which was all (my personal experience) that I discussed in my freedom thread."
Hmm, probably! :lol I tend to do that, I guess. My hope is that through a rant people may understand that they exist! That they are alive and free. If I can do this with a rant or by any other means then it was worth it. Why bother telling other people my personal experiences that proves this for me? It would be pointless, personal experiences are personal. Experience is earned on a person by person basis, personal experience is what gives us understanding. If I can help foster this experience of realization then I will. But explaining my process of realization would only seem to confound and stereotype what a completely unique and personal thing must be.
If I say I am free because I experienced xxxxx, people may look at xxxxx instead of looking in their heart for their own personal experiences. No person is the same, why should experience be the same? The unique spontaneous experience of experiencing unravels by itself and exactly how it wants, not how it did for me.
" I don't have to defend practical personal experience as it is based in reality unlike most religions and philosophies based in occult or metaphysical concepts that cannot be proven."
Many things cannot be proven. If you are a skeptic, then you don't need to believe them. Can I prove that reality is all just the dream of a butterfly? No, but can I prove that it isn't? No. A rational skeptic would conclude that reality probably isn't all just the dream of a butterfly, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I believe what works for me. It is already proven for me. If something has yet to be proven to you then seek your own personal validation. If it does not interest you then don't. There is nothing that I can say that will prove any of this because it is all based on personal experiential knowledge. There is no point in trying to prove it. If it makes sense to the reader, then it makes sense. If not, then that's okay too.
I just thought a few others might be interested enough to comment...and you did. Thanks."
Glad to!
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