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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread)
#5936246 - 08/06/06 05:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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My friends look at me like I'm the most evil person they've come across because I believe in myself and my own wants/needs and disregard the needs of the public. I can't reason with them. They can't reason with me.
My basic argument = I do not ask of you to provide for me, you should not ask me to provide for you.
Their basic problem = Everybody (domestically, USA) does not have the same chance as you, so you, being an economically inclined individual (my parents pay for school and housing), should provide for the needs of the economically disadvantaged, even if you work to overcome your parent's subsidy because you had a better chance than them from the start.
Lets define my life objective...I believe that if I work, I shouldn't have to provide for people who aren't producing as much as they consume. I say that I should have no pity for those people because they have the opportunity to use publicly funded 'free' information sources to get where they are able to provide for themselves.
I say, there are plenty of opportunities for the economically disadvantaged to rise above their current economic status. My main reason for saying this is that:
Everybody in the USA has access to free information (public libraries), therefore they have the opportunity to change their economic status by studying and then making related economic plans/business decisions.
Their argument: People who work minimum wage to support themselves have no time to spend contemplating a different career because there are bills to be paid and bread to be won.
My argument: How often during your hours of servitude do you think of ways to get out of your current situation? I know what its like to wake up daily at ungodly hours to make the money it takes to satisfy those basic needs (housing, food, water) even though my parents are taking care of them...I've still had to work. When I was working, all I did was ponder ways to get out of where I was...to not ever have to be in that position, because there will be a time.
Their argument: You are too tired at the end of the day to try to figure out different ways of self-sustainance. My friend told me he plays guitar during those hours when he is too tired to contemplate ways out of his minimum wage job. I told him that instead of playing guitar, I chose to go to the library to read so I could figure ways of building my career.
I don't buy that $6.75hr wage (minimum wage CA, I think) = $6.75 x 40hrs = $270/week - social security = after...IDK, around $230ish per week. $230/week x 4 weeks = $920/month. $920/month - rent (sharing a room, split in half @ $600/month per room = $300/month. $300/month - food ($150 max on a conservative food budget) - utilities ($50/month = electricity, gas, water) = $100 savings/month.
He tells me that this is not enough to gain access to a free public library...which is enough to spawn the ideas necessary to begin a business of his own. He tells me $100 isn't enough to begin a business...I say "banks will give loans to good ideas". He says "banks won't trust $100 dispensible income/month as collateral for a loan." I say "then convince your beloved public (even if you have to go door to door) to lend you the money"...the right idea being enough to convince serious investors, unless the investors like the idea enough to fork over their own $$...then you won't even need to spend your own $$.
He tells me I'm selfish for wanting to keep my money to myself. He tells me its not selfish for him to take my money and appropriate it to people who haven't done anything for me. He thinks people worse off and in the same condition as him, 'deserve' my money because I should think of the public good.
I told him that if jr really feels this, he should work as hard as I am willing to work, to become a millionare and provide for these people out of his own pocket. I never got an answer out of him regarding this.
I'm very frustrated. I'm also very tired right now...so if you have something to refute I will get back to you, but let me rest a bit. I will answer no baseless arguments...don't even try it .
Good night shroomery
--------------------
ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936488 - 08/06/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds like it's time for you to find new hard working friends. People who have goals and bring the energy, desire, and perseverence needed to achieve them.
I wish you luck, most people are slackers.
The other problem is that if you have money already other people without money will always find a reason why you really don't deserve it. The wider that disparity, the higher the level of resentment.
Most people are jealous of people with money in addition to being slackers themselves.
I would advise against your loaning or giving any of your money to your "friend" in question. I have done so with a couple of ex-"friends" who have left town and me out of some money. In fact, I would advise against you giving up any of your money to anyone. Fuck 'em. They'll never get used to having money because they will squander it ASAP and it never gets replaced cause they ain't bringing in any cause they are a bunch of fucking jealous slackers who love to mooch.
Fuck 'em all.
I have a tenant, she is on welfare from the government in all shape and form. She is more than capable of working and does a seasonal job but mostly just hangs out and gets drunk and smokes her Camel Lights. So clearly she has some money to pay for her habits. I pay her water, sewer and garbage. Her only bill is electric, and $66 a month for the small portion of the rent the welfare people don't pay for. She also gets food stamps. She probably also gets cash for her "disability" they allow her to claim.
See, it's all about having a kid and then the govt. will give you all that welfare stuff. Have kid(s) and all you have to do is apply then cry.
And whoo boy does she cry. She wrote me a letter crying that the "government doesn't understand the expenses of a single mom" while at the same time not paying me her measly $ 66 a month portion of the rent for three month's straight.
Now the bitch wants to repaint the house because she wants a "splash of color on a few walls" yet in the same letter short pays the rent because "after I paid my bills I didn't have any money left over for all of the rent". In her world I guess paint is free (she probably will blow the hardware shop owner to get it free and he will spray it on as well) and rent isn't a bill.
See what I mean about fucking slacking moochers? This bitch lives her whole life like that and the system including apparently me at least for now lets her get away with it. Until I evict her dumb ass that is.
Rant done.
Like I said time for you to find new friends.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936509 - 08/06/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"My friends look at me like I'm the most evil person they've come across because I believe in myself and my own wants/needs and disregard the needs of the public. I can't reason with them. They can't reason with me."
It sounds like you have a problem...not your "friends". You seem to be very ego based. You are worried about the world conforming to what you want. The first step in initiating change is to accept yourself and others for what they are and quit trying to force the world to conform to you. I would also examine the issue of why you call people friends if they think you are "evil". Relationship building may be an area of growth for you to consider. 
"They can't reason with me"
Maybe you are unreasonable.
"My argument: How often during your hours of servitude do you think of ways to get out of your current situation?"
"Thinking" doesn't cut it. Everyone thinks, but how many act on their thoughts? Acting is the most powerful tool for change.
Take your blinders off and wake up. You are dreaming.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5936522 - 08/06/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: Until I evict her dumb ass that is.
Kick her ass to the fucking curb, then she'll start making some real money for herself. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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rod
Ψ


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936526 - 08/06/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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You, can only be you. If you like who you are, well other people perception of you are their own problems. I sure don't worry about other peoples, condescending shit toward me. Good luck.
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LazyGnome
¬_¬


Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 291
Loc: the layer cake
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5936543 - 08/06/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
She is more than capable of working and does a seasonal job but mostly just hangs out and gets drunk and smokes her Camel Lights. So clearly she has some money to pay for her habits. I pay her water, sewer and garbage. Her only bill is electric, and $66 a month for the small portion of the rent the welfare people don't pay for. She also gets food stamps. She probably also gets cash for her "disability" they allow her to claim.
Her kid will probably turn ou the same way 
In high school I knew so many kids not having to pay fees and getting free lunch even though they would have had plenty of money if their parents weren't wasting their money on cigs and alcohol. I hate fucking people mooching off the system, they are stealing money and hurting people that really need it.
-------------------- Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, olny taht the frist and lsat ltteres are at the rghit pcleas. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by ilstef, but the wrod as a wlohe. "Everything that we know and understand comes down to perception, and by altering this perception we shake everything we know. All that you and I can know and understand is what we can see smell hear think touch and so on, and when something like mushrooms or salvia alters this steady perception, it can break reality permanently." - Dihnekis
Edited by LazyGnome (08/06/06 09:56 AM)
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palmersc
Stranger


Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 425
Loc: Arkansas
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936558 - 08/06/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TODAY said: I'm very frustrated.
haha, after debating similar topics with my friends, i've found that agreeing isn't what's important and it shouldn't dictate whether you remain friends. people's opinions are usually in conflict due to the fact that the source of their information is in conflict. i'm beginning to put less emphasis on the validity of my beliefs and am becoming more comfortable with not getting the last word.
i tend to side with your reasoning.
it's difficult to promote personal responsibility without coming off as a cold hearted uncompassionate individual. i see the way welfare and other social programs are set up as the problem. these programs propagate mass laziness and self pity.
while i'm not too fond of letting money dictate who survives. this is the game we play, and i'll play or else go without. when i finish up college, i'll be 100,000 in the hole, yet it will be a good investment which i'll gladly repay.
other species in the animal kingdom who are unwilling to work at life are not going to live long. i'm willing to help anybody up out of a tight spot, but i'm not going to have them leeching off me indefinitely.
it comes down to how these people who expect something for nothing were raised. their parents likely fucked up, and their mistakes are difficult to correct.
i can see both sides to the dilemma you present. one side relies heavily on emotions.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: LazyGnome]
#5936675 - 08/06/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Her kid will probably turn ou the same way
Bingo. She dropped out of high school then cried to the principal about why they didn't offer GEDs. He told her to get the fuck off school grounds and don't come back.
Of course, she is still living at "home" (my house) and drinking the water I pay for and crapping down the sewer that I pay the bill for. No job, no education, just hanging out smoking those Camel Lights.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936701 - 08/06/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Poverty has more to do with our economic system than with a lack of charity. The solution is to change the system. But I've gotten into that enough in other threads.
That said, I think you overstate how easy it is to find a decent job. I'm in a similarly privileged position as you. I'm a college graduate living with my parents, who paid my entire way through college so that I wouldn't have student loans to worry about. And yet, I still can't find a decent job. Believe me, I'm trying. I had planned on living in my own place by now, but that plan's gone to shit. I keep having to push back the date for when I'm going to move out, cuz shit just isn't working. And starting my own business? Please! We have a family curse when it comes to that. The last successful entrepreneur in my family owned slaves. So in the meantime, I'm sending out letters and resumes to whatever places that I might be qualified for, but it's not easy.
In summary, I don't think you're necessarily selfish. But I do think you're rather naive.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Silversoul]
#5936713 - 08/06/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I had planned on living in my own place by now, but that plan's gone to shit. I keep having to push back the date for when I'm going to move out, cuz shit just isn't working. And starting my own business? Please! We have a family curse when it comes to that."
Look at that statement and you will see your future. Change the statement...then make it a personal truth...your future will change accordingly.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5936718 - 08/06/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you saying I should start my own business?
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Silversoul]
#5936725 - 08/06/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I'm sending out letters and resumes to whatever places I might be qualified for, but it's not easy"
Hell no finding a good job isn't easy. But as to who is being naive, if you really think that "sending out letters and resumes" will do shit in the job search you are dreaming.
You need to call them, smooze the receptionist to get through to the man or at the very least work at getting set up for an INTERVIEW if there truly is a job to be had. If there is no job to be had, why waste the paper and time and stamp to mail out your letter and resume that will end up in the circular file or buried deep in the "prospective applicants when we have a job opening" never to be opened file in someone's desk with no hiring decision making anyway.
Then when you have the interview, you gotta nail it. It takes skills to do a good interview. Skills and practice. You have to sell yourself in a confident manner but mostly just show interest and eagerness. Be the puppy dog who is trainable and willing to fetch a slipper or two.
I can just imagine nowadays the clumsy oafish attempts most people have at finding real employment. Like sending out letters and resumes. Save a tree and get on the phone...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Silversoul]
#5936729 - 08/06/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am saying that you are the master of your destiny. Making statements of (and indulging in) self defeat is counter productive. Your physical surroundings are a mirror of your psychological landscape. Be positive and most importantly act positively. Finding a great job or starting a business is something people do everyday...your opportunities are no less than others. Most importantly...act.
I have noticed when one person makes a negatively oriented statement in a negatively oriented way they invite others in to do the same. Those that do surrender power. Look at the content of every post and you will see my point. Misery loves company they say...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5936742 - 08/06/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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In no way am I conceding defeat. I am simply explaining that it is not as easy as the original poster seems to imply.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Silversoul]
#5936765 - 08/06/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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You've already conceded defeat.
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5936768 - 08/06/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: You've already conceded defeat.
Explain
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: LazyGnome]
#5936798 - 08/06/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LazyGnome said:
Quote:
She is more than capable of working and does a seasonal job but mostly just hangs out and gets drunk and smokes her Camel Lights. So clearly she has some money to pay for her habits. I pay her water, sewer and garbage. Her only bill is electric, and $66 a month for the small portion of the rent the welfare people don't pay for. She also gets food stamps. She probably also gets cash for her "disability" they allow her to claim.
Her kid will probably turn ou the same way 
In high school I knew so many kids not having to pay fees and getting free lunch even though they would have had plenty of money if their parents weren't wasting their money on cigs and alcohol. I hate fucking people mooching off the system, they are stealing money and hurting people that really need it.
YOU FUCKING ARE ARE THE MOST IGNORANT BUNCH I HAVE HAD THE DISPLEASURE OF .................Fuck it
You have no idea what has happened to this woman..Life has brought her to this point and probley the only FUN she can afford is a cold beer and some smokes........ While you get high and steal from your parents. Fucking bullshit to just treat the world and the people in it like rugs...........Stop looking at others "problems" and start looking at your own
To the first poster. Your selfish and are to stupid to see this and don't LIVE by your own beliefs. If the world around you is not your problem then why do the feelings and beliefs of others around you bothers SO SO damn much........be a real man and start living a truthful existence 
This thread kinda makes me sick to know that there are really posters here who are REALLY THIS SELFISH...........but I am not surprised
Fuck e'm all ...yeah how much balls does that take..Sounds like a great way to release all responsibilities from yourself.......Nice just keep raping the world...............Nice one.Same EXACT mind set of life time Criminals...........EXACTLY
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Silversoul]
#5936804 - 08/06/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Your whole post was so defeatist in tone that I feel you have already conceded defeat.
Anyone who mails off a letter and resume with no phone call before or after has already conceded defeat.
Anyone who says their family is "cursed" as to self employment has already conceded defeat as to that possibility.
Anyone who cries about how tough it is finding a job but who really hasn't applied the practice and skills necessary to get a good job has already conceded defeat. In other words, finding a job IS a full time job until you find it. Interview, interview, interview.
If you go to the interview with that defeatist attitude, you will be defeated. Then you can go home and mail out some more letters and resumes.
If you go to the interview truly confident and eager and show interest, you may win that job. It's a contest and there is only one winner.
Ask yourself who would the employer rather hire, an upbeat positive eager confident person, or someone who isn't?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5936808 - 08/06/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I am saying that you are the master of your destiny. Making statements of (and indulging in) self defeat is counter productive. Your physical surroundings are a mirror of your psychological landscape. Be positive and most importantly act positively. Finding a great job or starting a business is something people do everyday...your opportunities are no less than others. Most importantly...act.
I have noticed when one person makes a negatively oriented statement in a negatively oriented way they invite others in to do the same. Those that do surrender power. Look at the content of every post and you will see my point. Misery loves company they say...
Words have power. You are talking about stalking unconsciousness programming. We are constantly casting subtle counter spells to our statements of intent. Yet we mostly cannot see it and refuse to acknowledge it. I have never met anyone who doesn't do this and I have almost never met anyone who "sees" it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (08/06/06 12:13 PM)
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mr_kite
The Watcher


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: My friends don't understand my views (this is an OPEN thread) [Re: TODAY]
#5936815 - 08/06/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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My problem with your views is that they are very sweeping. "I believe in myself and my own wants/needs and disregard the needs of the public" - that is an over-simplistic, selfish statement. Fair enough you don't want to give your money to lazy bums who only have themselves to blame for their failure; but what about those people who started off in poverty and have no way out? They exist too you know, and I'd have a problem with myself if I refused to consider helping someone's who's simply been incredible unlucky despite being hardworking and forward-thinking.
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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