Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935176 - 08/05/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.




I note your assurances, but will not reach any conclusions based upon them. What is the nature of this secular moral framework? Is there more information you could provide? Its beyond my practical means to research into it myself at the moment, but I would be delighted to review anything you submit. :smile: I'm not exactly adept when it comes to philosophical figures. :grin:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
I hold a determined stance on this philosophy, and I'd be more than willing to share or converse on it if you are so inclined after you read the article.

Quote:


Knowing oneself does not imply creating abstract notions that enable oneself.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:



No, it does not, but it provides a more poetic, warm way of doing so.

Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God. Some people have the "God Gene", as Hamer states in The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes

The yearning for a divine framework could be inherent in some beings. Not everyone functions the same under a uniform paradigm. Different strokes for different folks  :wink:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935283 - 08/05/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I hold a determined stance on this philosophy, and I'd be more than willing to share or converse on it if you are so inclined after you read the article.




I started reading that link and gave the rest a quick overview, as I am suffering from a lack of sleep. I will certainly bring more time and focus into it later on. However, from what I have already read, I do not highly regard the concept of a categorical imperative. If morality were universal, then it would be evident in all actions. I can understand the desire to maintain a sense of a universal morality amongst society, and certainly this is what certain religions have tried to do. I think that this has had a negative effect on society, in fact.

Quote:


Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy.




One's experience of reality is not cold, rigid, and blunt - it is lively, vibrant, cosmic, and it is truth. I conclude that what you are implying is that some people simply cannot deal with reality as it actually is, so they require something to comfort them and give them meaning that they cannot find within themselves and their direct experience.

Quote:


They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.




I see no lack of the abundance of the amazing qualities of life, love included, when one simply experiences life to its fullest. They need those things because they lack those things, and they lack those things because their mind obstructs them from their experience. God is an abstract substitution for the all-encompassing self that they should be directly experiencing their being as.

Quote:


The yearning for a divine framework could be inherent in some beings. 




I'm sure it is, and it results from a sense of lack. One does not yearn for what is readily available. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935298 - 08/05/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

If morality were universal, then it would be evident in all actions.





The categorical imperative is not descriptive, it is prescriptive. It doesn't state how things are, but rather how things should be.
Quote:


One's experience of reality is not cold, rigid, and blunt - it is lively, vibrant, cosmic, and it is truth. I conclude that what you are implying is that some people simply cannot deal with reality as it actually is, so they require something to comfort them and give them meaning that they cannot find within themselves and their direct experience.



I was comparing secular self-exploring philosophical literature to theological/mystical insightful literature.

Objectivism or nihilism, for example, are both far more cold than mysticism or mythology.




Quote:

I'm sure it is, and it results from a sense of lack. One does not yearn for what is readily available. :smirk:




I agree, it does result from a sense of lack. But who is without lack. Are you? This sense of "lack" is a powerful intellectual driving force. Some say perfection is lacking, for lacking provides room for growth.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935303 - 08/05/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Please don't go and insult nihilism, it's actually very warm, it just has a very bad rep about it being cold and heartless or some other such uninformed nonsense.

I HAD to say that because of what you said, but I don't have time for any deeper sort of reply, maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5935309 - 08/05/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I am very familiar with nihilism, don't get me wrong. No matter how you sugar coat it, the fundamental position of nihilism argues that the world is without value. No meaning, no purpose, no truth, no morality.

If that isn't cold, tell me what is.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935325 - 08/05/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yes, from the outside viewer's perspective it's cold, damn cold. In practice it's very warm. If life has no purpose or meaning or truth, then it doesn't really matter what you do. I see that as the ultimate expression of freedom. And really, once you have that precious, intangible thing -- freedom, the rest doesn't even matter that much anyway.

Have you read any nihilistic novels? One person who comes to mind is Louis-Ferdinand Celine, and I think he can give a very good sense of what I mean.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5935341 - 08/05/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Just Nietzsche.

I just find trouble living a life without purpose. I'm very purpose driven  :cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935369 - 08/05/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

you know, I think most people would say that about me, but I wouldn't.

I'm actually sort of anti-purpose because of my experience. I feel that having some ultimate purpose devalues life on the micro-level. I've found that by concentrating on devoting myself to the moment, I actually tremendously improve my long-term prospects without actively trying to.

I think ultimately I'm much more of a pragmatist than a moralist, so I'm OK with any of my beliefs seeming horrible or weak, because they work for me. To explain why they work for me, I might say that a rejection of any ultimate purpose has no negative effect on reality because, well, it's purely mental. In effect, I'm simply giving my intuition more weight in my actions, which makes me happier.

it's kind of funny how stuff can reverse long/short term at times. Sort of how it's been noted that pure hedonism leads to all sorts of maladies like being fat and diseased, yet it's the most immediately pleasurable.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935386 - 08/05/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Firefox is a glitched piece of shit, first and foremost. :mad:

Quote:

RRRR said:
The categorical imperative is not descriptive, it is prescriptive. It doesn't state how things are, but rather how things should be.




Without an effective model of reality that reflects reality as it can be directly perceived, then one is unable to manifest "how things should be". The more one understand reality as it is, and accepts its nature, then one is more equipped to conform reality to one's expectations of it. Without a sense of the nature of reality, without fully immersing oneself in reality as it exists, without dissolving obstructions of one's perceptions of reality by bringing awareness within, then one is unable to most beneficially effect change.

One needs to be able to draw a map and say, this is the territory, this is where we've been, this is who we are as a result, we forecast that this is what lies ahead for us, and, ultimately, this is where we are trying to arrive at, so this is what we need to do to make it more likely that we will arrive there.

It requires an honest assessment of reality, it is necessary that a distinct individual arises and immerses themselves in the Unmitigated Light of Reality. That is gnosis, to be fully aware of the present experience. :thumbup:

Quote:


I was comparing secular self-exploring philosophical literature to theological/mystical insightful literature.

Objectivism or nihilism, for example, are both far more cold than mysticism or mythology.




I can understand why you would express that these philosophies are without consideration of the experience of human beings interacting with reality, if that is what you refer to with the descriptive word "cold". :smirk:

However, I hope that you did not identify my expressed perspsective as being similar to or resulting from objectivism or nihilism. If so, please demonstrate your reasoning.

Also, I am concerned that this is being proposed as justification for adopting myth, since objectivism or nihlism cannot represent the reality we directly perceive, or our experience within it, as it. I am not formally adept in philosophy, but I gather that objectivism asserts that all reality exists objectively, externally from the mind, which denies the obvious fact that the mind itself is an aspect of reality. More obviously, existance exists. :lol: It would seem to be an axiom, eh?

Quote:


I agree, it does result from a sense of lack. But who is without lack. Are you? This sense of "lack" is a powerful intellectual driving force. Some say perfection is lacking, for lacking provides room for growth.




Am I without lack? I make a distinction between practical lack, such as "I lack the necessary funds to purchase a guitar", and that of emotional lack, which is what I think I was addressing. The self exists as the culmination of all experience in this moment, so what could be lacking? Those who derive a sense of fufillment and peace from their experience of reality are not lacking in the same way that I proposed others may be.

We exist as a form that is continuously changing, as we interact with reality, and that we are transforming implies that there is potential that is not yet realized, but I do not consider this to be lack. We are complete, even as there is formlessness that is yet to be manifested.

Feeling lack is no justification for adopting beliefs that offer one security, chasm-jump over unanswered questions that we pose concerning life and reality, act as a crutch for the fact that we are unable to discipline ourselves to be conductors of reality, or support obstructions of our direct experience that prevent awareness from being developed. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935397 - 08/05/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I am very familiar with nihilism, don't get me wrong. No matter how you sugar coat it, the fundamental position of nihilism argues that the world is without value. No meaning, no purpose, no truth, no morality. 




I do not adopt preconceived beliefs as my own, so I will not speak for nihlism or propose to know what it is about, but the notion that existance is without inherent meaning or purpose, that it simply is, dissolves all preconceptions of what reality is, and allows one to simply perceive and observe it for what it is.

Meaning and purpose are not inherent, they are implied, by ourselves. Reality does have meaning and purpose, in that, we, aspects of reality, are attributing meaning and purpose to it.

Dissolving the illusion that reality itself is embedded with meaning and purpose reveals our incredible role in creating meaning and purpose, which gives us human beings the opportunity to find our own meaning, value, and purpose. :thumbup:

Of course, asserting that existance itself does not exist isn't exactly the most productive pursuit. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935550 - 08/05/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality?

I always thought Kant's synethetic a prior was rather imaginary. :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935564 - 08/05/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.

In other words, they need to believe in some ultimate power outside their Self to...?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5935569 - 08/05/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.

In other words, they need to believe in some ultimate power outside their Self to...?



I don't really think of God as being outside of myself.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935574 - 08/05/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

existance exists. :lol: It would seem to be an axiom, eh?

Don't get sucked into their trap! "Existence exists" is true merely by definition, it must be true. The phrase is similar to "All swimming beings swim" or some other twaddle, it doesn't tell us anything about reality. What is existence? Well gee, I dunno.. but existence must exist, otherwise it wouldn't be existence!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935584 - 08/05/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If that isn't cold, tell me what is.

It is cold, at first, but after a radical reconstruction of your schemata, you find it is quite refreshing.  :cool:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5935592 - 08/05/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It is still more than your Self.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5935600 - 08/05/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It is still more than your Self.



True, but it's not outside of me. Rather, I'm inside of it.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5936381 - 08/06/06 08:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
True, but it's not outside of me.  Rather, I'm inside of it.




To know this, then there must be some amount of information derived from being inside of it that would indicate that you are.

Simply knowing that you are doesn't exactly count... give us more information! :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950143 - 08/10/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

We were born with it, but have the power to keep it out of us.
Then it depends on how much of it you let in before it will take us back again :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* PSYCHEDELICS AND THE PATH - Code of Ethics for Spirit Divinorum 807 1 09/19/04 01:31 AM
by redgreenvines
* Reflections on Dharma Ped 636 5 10/10/03 02:14 PM
by CleverName
* Reality vs. the mushroom
( 1 2 3 4 all )
AbstractSoul 10,574 64 02/18/02 03:36 PM
by AbstractSoul
* Current Reality Swami 948 18 11/20/03 01:01 AM
by Frog
* reality theory
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
1stimer 7,509 92 10/05/02 09:59 PM
by Calen
* Anyone here practice Zen? tekramrepus 1,255 11 11/02/02 08:29 AM
by tekramrepus
* What IS reality?
( 1 2 all )
manna_man 4,750 35 10/22/03 10:26 AM
by fireworks_god
* Reflecting Murex 840 7 02/10/03 04:05 PM
by Murex

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,405 topic views. 1 members, 8 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.