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OfflineRRRR
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Define G(g)od
    #5935237 - 08/05/06 08:56 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I see many people, in many threads, under many different contexts debate the existence or attribution of God.

It seems the result is usually frustration, and this is IMO due to varying premises on the nature of God. Before one can debate anything, you have to have standardized premises. You can not debate the nature of anything until you define it. So, this thread is to help us all get on the same page when dealing with God.

This is to help us get a feel of how each of us views God, thus we can better approach each other when dealing with the matter.

I'll start. I will quote Joseph Campbell when I define God, taken from a conversation he engaged in with Bill Moyers.

"What is a god? A god is a personification of a motivating power or a value system that functions in human life and in the universe--the powers of your own body and of nature."


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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InvisibleSmokenBabyJesus
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5935297 - 08/05/06 09:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

St. Thomas Aquinas said that God is "that which nothing greater can be thought."

so what do you think God is? and can you think of anything better than that God?


--------------------
"Where that boy at??"


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5935366 - 08/05/06 10:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Before the beginning was the VOID.
Out of the void came God, the Star Maker, the Creator, the Decision Maker, the First Distinction.

Out of God came the idea of self, the consciousness without an object, the consciousness of itself without and object, the consciousness without consciousness, self.

From consciousness without an object came the object, the first object, space, a space to vorticize, a space to whirl, a space to turn upon itself and in addition turn upon itself in the other direction, opposite, expanding.

On the microlevel, the smallest vortex, the smallest quantum of space, the smallest of the smallest unit out of which all else would be built - the smallest vortex reproduced itself, reproduced in pairs, opposite, swinging oppositely, making sure to balance, so that the sum over all the integral of ALL was zero, as if not real.

God created AS IF, the as if conscious as real, made hardware out of software, software out of hardware, creating nothing, casting ALL to destruction back in the VOID. Everywhere the VOID. Anything, everything, all of it can dump, at any moment, any instant, any eternity, any past, any future, into the VOID to zero out SAFE PLACE.

The integral of all the summed aspects of averaging through all the new creation, is all the little vortices and their dances to make larger vortices and their dances to make still larger vorices till finally a universe.

In the beginning was the point, the smallest possible point, the H nu, "hv", the quantum of action.

Also at the beginning was the quantum of love expanded, L star, L*, expanding becoming the idealized abstraction of universal love, filling the new universe, yet also filling the old consciousness without an object. The true prime abstract compassion working its own thing out there with nothing else to refer to. With NOTHING to refer to except ALL, which included it, itself, Lovestar L*.

The random dance of E star, E*, entropic energy, totally random, having no point, no place, pure, pure energy, pure randomness, pure destruction burning all else into itself, becoming entropic, running down isothermally as high a temperature as it could achieve out of all the organization around it that it swallowed up.

N star, N*, negentropic energy, the big N, the Network, the intelligence, the organizer. That which comes, takes entropic, makes it straight, straight lines, points, planes, solids, cubes, crystals, computers, brains, life.
The organizer. Building, building out of nothing everywhere, using entropic energy in its service, creating, creating straight lines, crooked lines, curves, surfaces, beautiful nonlinear spaces, Riemannian surfaces, pure mathematics.

Minus star [-]*, negative energy star. The pure negative energy, the destroyer of the creator. Negative opposite the positive energy.

Plus star [+]*. Pure positive energy, the rejuvenator, the pusher, the creator, opposite of the destroyer [-]*.

Zero star, Z*, nothingness, the void, the absence of all, negative absence of the positive, the positive absence of the negative, the where with all, the opposite of all, from all, the zero place, the safe place, the nothingness from which all came and back to which all goes. Nothingness. Zero star, Z*.

All is nothing, nothing is all.
God is God.

C*, pure consciousness. The pure aspect of it, itself, before it thought of itself yet after it thought of itself. The distinguisher yet the non distinguisher. The pure high indifference HIND which is without the necessity of any of the others is this cosmic dance. The beginning, the end, the be all in C star, C*.

C*, [+]*, [-]*, L*, Z*, the five energies, the five sources. Opposite these from the left hand we go to the right hand. God starts with nothing, with zero, with Him before Him out of which He came, as well as everything else.

In this aspect as the Star Maker, N star, N*, the creator, that which created everything else including itself, N star, pure negentropic creativity. The organizer on the pure organization level. That which came and managed all else.

L star, L*, the lover. That which feels compassion is the L star trip for all the others, making sure that love permeates everywhere, keeping the atoms dancing and the vortices whirling, keeping space intact, not allowing zero to take over yet, yet compassionately reducing to zero that which is too much in the negative region.

Plus star, [+]*, pure positive energy seeking, always seeking, the positive, the orgiastic, the orgasm, the fucking of the universe fucking itself, always doing the fucking. The female fucker, the cunt, the cock, the male fucker. That which is so positive that it's unbearable. So anti-negative that it's euphoric, it's orgiastic and it's ananda, it is beyond comprehension in the positive realm. Pure positive abstraction.

Randomness, E star, E*, that which is totally unorganized, not allowing any organization to appear, destroying all organization that does appear. The shiva-shakti dichotomy to the nth power. Pure random organizer and anti-organizer that tears it all down, that destroys the whirlings, takes the vortices, converts them into pure electromagnetic energy by the collapse of anti-matter and matter into the energy space into the N* space and then reducing that itself. Pure randomness with photons no longer photons. With thermal photons no longer thermal photons and the isotropic eternal dance of nothing taking place in any direction with no space, no time, ten to the minus thirty-third centimeters, indeterminacy of space itself, of topology.
Indeterminacy, the quantum of indeterminacy, raised everywhere supporting ten to the ninety-fifth grams per cubic centimeter of density, of apparent density and yet totally random.

Yes, God is beyond all this, he is ALL. God, singing the praises of his creation, living through his creation, differentiating, unifying, diversifying, making further distinctions among ALL in order to differentiate, in order to start wars, in order to destroy in order to create, in order to be human, in order to make WoMan, in order to make dolphins, to make animals, to make, to make, to make and unmake in turn ALL. Summing it all up including nothing. Nothing encompassing ALL. All encompassing nothing. That which became, that died and became ALL, then died again and became zero.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5935410 - 08/05/06 10:34 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

My perspective on the matter:

At the center of it all is the "mystical" experience, which is, quite simply, directly perceiving and experiencing reality, that incredible, constant moment in which we interact with all other aspects of reality, that exact, precise interaction - but, not only that, but being fully aware of its happening.

Immersing oneself in that is the ultimate path, as it is the only moment in which reality exists, the only time we live, the source of it all. Our mind seperates us from that with its obstructions (which develop from a lack of awareness), and, by immersing ourselves in it, those obstructions will dissolve. We immerse ourselves within it by conducting awareness.

I think it is as simple as that. I will actively contest any notions of the validity of the concept of god, as it always seems to serve as one of those mental obstructions of that direct experience of reality. Define god as you wish, but it all dissolves when one brings awareness within oneself - it is simply a mental reference point to something that cannot be conveyed, only experienced.

I propose that we advocate awareness, not obstructions of our conducting awareness. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935440 - 08/05/06 10:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think that when you reach non-dual awareness, there is no difference between God and no-God.


--------------------


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: SmokenBabyJesus]
    #5935896 - 08/06/06 02:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think that was St. Anselm.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5935922 - 08/06/06 02:52 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Everything is God. :flowstone:


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5935999 - 08/06/06 03:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

philosphically I'd say god is everything, infinity, whatever,

but did god assume a certain consiousness, if god can do all things, why not assume that god had an identity also,


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: capliberty]
    #5936006 - 08/06/06 03:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
philosphically I'd say god is everything, infinity, whatever,




No, everything is everything, infinity is infinity, God is a fictional entity from the Bible.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5936011 - 08/06/06 03:27 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The notion of god greatly predates the Bible.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5936018 - 08/06/06 03:29 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

*gods

The entity God, with a capital G, is a Bible character.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5936025 - 08/06/06 03:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Who said god with the capital g?

He used a lower case g, and he was who you were responding to.

The title of my thread implies all notions of god also.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5936382 - 08/06/06 10:02 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God = God
God = The sum of all sums.
God = ...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5936394 - 08/06/06 10:09 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think that when you reach non-dual awareness, there is no difference between God and no-God.




I think that when one intensifies the amount of awareness that one is conducting, thereby experiencing reality to a greater degree, abstract conceptions that one assumes are based in reality begin to dissolve. Arbitrary distinctions that are not actually evident are sure to disappear. :tongue:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineNewbie
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5937019 - 08/06/06 03:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God is the math behind the universe.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5937076 - 08/06/06 03:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I have come to a grand conclusion.............What God is in our minds is what it is.....So what God is......is many things

But God is real and can be found..........

God can be found in the same place all this universe started from.

I believe that this all started somewhere and at sometime......Even if God is a mid aged backyard scientists living on the 72nd plane of existence


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5937350 - 08/06/06 05:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

this and that
here and there
now and then
me and you
yes and no


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5937411 - 08/06/06 05:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God can be found in the same place all this universe started from.

If you take a bottle of ink and throw it at a wall, it will make one big splotch and then expand and drip all over.

In the same way, the Big Bang was an enormous explosion of energy which has been expanding ever since. We are like a drop of ink from the Bang. We are the very same energy that Banged all those eons ago.

If you ask me, there is no point in searching for some divine being out there, as we ARE that very divine energy. If you seek God, look no further than where you are, right here and right now.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: Define G(g)od *DELETED* [Re: Fractalated]
    #5939908 - 08/07/06 07:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (08/07/06 07:25 AM)


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Offlineqwertymkonji
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: soulcircus]
    #5939913 - 08/07/06 07:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I have felt the realization of being aware that we/I are/am god on various psychedelics and I now believe this to be true to this date. We really are a collective conciousness (one) and we are god. Nothing else has given me more proof than my experiences.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5940059 - 08/07/06 10:06 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
*gods

The entity God, with a capital G, is a Bible character.




It does predate the Bible. Hinduism is far more ancient than Abrahamic traditions. Metaphysical philosophies regarding a singular point of truth preceding existence/time-space continuum also predate Biblical articulation and allegory. The idea of God has been around for as long as humans were able to consciously contemplate on such matters. I don't see it as some kind of historical faux pas, or a conspiracy as many empericists, encultured in Judea-Christian tradition believe. Rather, the historicity of ideas pertaining to God demonstrate a consistent archetype in the human psyche in general, where pure ideas pertaining to compassion, love etc. are held in such reverence that they become the sum of all reality. Mystics (whether nomadic or encultured) have always contended that once physics are stripped away, whether ideally in mystical experience or actually in the case of physical death, only what is completely "otherly" remains. Whether the unknown is the Ground of Consciousness, an actual method of conjoining individual consciousness with one another or simple nothingness and non-being has been debated since the dawn of thought. For me at least, the sacred expression of Compassion has always been wholly other.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5940065 - 08/07/06 10:10 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5940102 - 08/07/06 10:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The very fact that such an archetype has existed for such a long time suggests to me that it played some role in our evolution. Perhaps it has been around longer than Homo Sapiens. My guess is that as our brains were developing cognitively and symbolically, we came up with the concept of the ultimate, and it has been in our consciousness ever since.

Or perhaps it was created as a means of explaining ethical behavior.

Regardless, when one extinguishes all conceptualizations (as in Nirvana), then one is left purely with the here and now, with reality as it is.

You say that at the heart of everything is that which is completely 'otherly'. I say that at the heart of relative truth is absolute truth. So perhaps we are not that different, only using different terminology.

Whether the unknown is the Ground of Consciousness, an actual method of conjoining individual consciousness with one another or simple nothingness and non-being has been debated since the dawn of thought.

It seems to me that concepts such as non-being depend on their opposites, in this case, being, for existence. Being implies non-being, and vice versa. Therefore, neither of them are inherently existent and are depedently arisen mere appearances.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineSimpleThoughts
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5941266 - 08/07/06 06:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God is everything you want him to be. God can be your doG, the man's best friend. God can be a person you idolize. God can be yourself. God can be the guy who created this world if you need to believe in.
God is something everyone got, but not everyone knows it. But God is always there. Atheist maybe don't believe in the guy who created this world but they believe in what they know. God is everything you love, everything you believe in. God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.


--------------------
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON,
THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE
HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: SimpleThoughts]
    #5941310 - 08/07/06 06:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.

Could you explain what you mean by that? You can't live if you don't believe what?


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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OfflineSimpleThoughts
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5941340 - 08/07/06 06:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fractalated said:
God is real cause you can't live if you don't believe.

Could you explain what you mean by that? You can't live if you don't believe what?




You can't live without believing in something. Believing is the meaning of life.


--------------------
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON,
THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE
HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.


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OfflineFractalated
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: SimpleThoughts]
    #5941433 - 08/07/06 07:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What if I were to say that believing is just wishful thinking and is often just a fantasy?

What of athiests? What of people who don't believe in anything, and nihilists? They're still alive.

I disagree that believing is the meaning of life. Life is the meaning of life. In other words, the journey IS the goal.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Fractalated]
    #5942029 - 08/07/06 10:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Athiests believe that they do not believe in anything. However this is just my belief. I never believed myself to be an athiest.


--------------------


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OfflineElectricJW
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5943987 - 08/08/06 02:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

We are all energy, that once was god.  The big bang came from god and everything that was ever created was created in this moment.  God is taking a backseat ride, viewing our perspective, this way god is able to experience everything that will every happen.  Then once all of us reunite together to become god, the process repeats for infinity.  And there is a way to acess the greater reality, and that is looking within yourself, called Astral Projection, FTMFW! :grin:


--------------------
"Visualize the action, then actualize the vision." - King of the Hill

“Long you live and high you'll fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.”- Pink Floyd


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5944846 - 08/08/06 07:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
*gods

The entity God, with a capital G, is a Bible character.




Quote:

It does predate the Bible. Hinduism is far more ancient than Abrahamic traditions.




Some Hindus worship the Brahman, which is described as a universal soul (not a physical entity), while others are polytheistic. This division among the Hindus is another example of the inability of mystics to arrive at any consistent or universal conclusions.

Quote:

Metaphysical philosophies regarding a singular point of truth preceding existence/time-space continuum also predate Biblical articulation and allegory.




Yes, but such a philosopy has little in common with the physical entity God that is described in the Bible.

"And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day." --Genesis 3:8

It doesn't seem that a "singular point of truth" would have a voice nor the ability to walk.

Quote:

Rather, the historicity of ideas pertaining to God demonstrate a consistent archetype in the human psyche in general, where pure ideas pertaining to compassion, love etc. are held in such reverence that they become the sum of all reality.




Or perhaps this merely demonstrates the insatiable desire for some sort of meaning or explanation which is shared by all humans. For example, many ancient peoples used to worship the sun, which is in my opinion slightly more sensible than religions like Hinduism and Christianity because you can prove that the sun exists and be sure that everyone is worshipping the same god.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5945835 - 08/08/06 11:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Some Hindus worship the Brahman, which is described as a universal soul (not a physical entity), while others are polytheistic. This division among the Hindus is another example of the inability of mystics to arrive at any consistent or universal conclusions.




The Logos of God (and I am simply using English terminology here) does not change descriptively in different languages; it is still the Logos. The Brahman of the Hindus is described as eternal, genderless, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and indescribable - and this is predating Biblia. The "bearded guy in the sky" construction is a fundamentalist/exoteric one, and esoteric ideas have subsequently existed before it as allegory normally precedes literalist interpretations. I know of English speaking Hindus who simply use the word God (with a capital G) when describing Logos. Finally, if one reads the Bhagavad-Gita as legalistically as some read Genesis, one will find equally interesting language pertaining to Divine Mystery, including narrations of Krishna, the "Supreme Personality of the Godhead".

Quote:

Yes, but such a philosopy has little in common with the physical entity God that is described in the Bible.

"And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day." --Genesis 3:8

It doesn't seem that a "singular point of truth" would have a voice nor the ability to walk.




Even fundamentalist Christians today rarely believe God to actually be physical, and many are content not understanding the Mystery they revere even while rejecting obviously primitive ideas of God. The singular point of Truth is where mystics, not exoterics meet. Gnostics, Kabbalists, Sufis, etc. are able to discern the phenomena of physics from spirit (un-embodied consciousness), which Gnostics call the pneuma phenomena, and similar, Sufis refer to the experience of pneuma as F'ana, the annihilation of physics.

Quote:

Or perhaps this merely demonstrates the insatiable desire for some sort of meaning or explanation which is shared by all humans. For example, many ancient peoples used to worship the sun, which is in my opinion slightly more sensible than religions like Hinduism and Christianity because you can prove that the sun exists and be sure that everyone is worshipping the same god.




A wise Vedic man once told me, "The soul's thirst for God begins in the flesh, ventures through the world and ends in liberation from it."


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineShrooomKing
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5945969 - 08/09/06 12:26 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

lol

This post brings back many memories for me. The feeling of wanting to know why "god" or the like exsist, quoting the great J. Campbell.

In my journey to find the truth, I started in the very same places as this poster...

Now... mid journey... looking both back and to the future I have no more answers than questions. Only god is love, love is hard to find in a lonely world, treasure it...

I am to weak to know the truth...

yet I still move forward.


--------------------
A driver knows that it is not the road that is his biggest obstacle, rather it is the poles.
A great driver understands, the poles will always be there, and he must learn to adjust.

I can't keep doing this on my own... with all these... people. -daniel plainview


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: ShrooomKing]
    #5946391 - 08/09/06 03:34 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

We spend out whole life's defining god :smile:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5946427 - 08/09/06 03:50 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Even fundamentalist Christians today rarely believe God to actually be physical




Then their beliefs are in conflict with the Bible. I can provide numerous examples from the Bible in which God is described as having the characteristics of a physical entity.

Quote:

The singular point of Truth is where mystics, not exoterics meet.




So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5946451 - 08/09/06 04:05 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Then their beliefs are in conflict with the Bible. I can provide numerous examples from the Bible in which God is described as having the characteristics of a physical entity.




Yea, how about that... spirituality that contradicts the ancient words of men :smile:

Quote:

So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?




:yesnod:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5946962 - 08/09/06 12:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?




:yesnod:




Here we have yet another example of a mystic conjuring up his own special definition of the word.  The dictionary defines a mystic as "One who practices or believes in mysticism or a given form of mysticism," and mysticism is defined as "A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience."  I'd say that the beliefs of Christians, literalists included, are most certainly beyond "intellectual apprehension."


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5947317 - 08/09/06 02:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5947385 - 08/09/06 03:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I like St. Thomas Aquinas' answer best, but not because it's right. "That which nothing greater can be thought," sounds almost right to me, but I'd need to change it slightly to "that which cannot be thought." Tommy's answer makes it sound like God could be a thought. I tend to think God is that which creates thought and can never itself be thought of. God is whatever can't be known, defined, found, or understood. I guess it also works to call God the All, because the All, too, can never be known. Knowing requires duality, a separation between the knower and the known. God is both and neither, so knowledge is not capable of containing it.


--------------------
"The Big Lie gets lots of public attention and is carried forward as in a big parade, with many hungry listeners, while the truth must come limping behind on crutches, struggling to catch up, panting with its tongue hanging out." -Reich


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5947396 - 08/09/06 03:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think christian literalists are like the majority of other mystics. many of them associate anything mystical or occult with devil worship or witchcraft.
  taking the bible literaly denies the bible of it's valuable metaphors which could be interpreted as mystical or denoting something otherworldly such as the seven churches in revelation which are a metaphor for the the seven chakras. the literalists would not believe god is physical, because in the bible god is described as a spirit. this is important because if we are made in the image of god then we have aspects of spirit too.   

  John4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit
and in truth"
God is exactly not what you think is God or what you define God to be. but if i had to choose a defintion i would just call God The Supreme Collective Consciousness.  :thirdeyeani:


--------------------


Edited by ShroomDoom (08/09/06 03:31 PM)


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5947687 - 08/09/06 05:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.




Most of the fundies that I know claim to talk to God on a regular basis.


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5947715 - 08/09/06 05:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Have you ever watched Joyce Meyer or read any of her stuff? She is a stereotypical literalist and she talks about God as if he lives in her basement.


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5947754 - 08/09/06 05:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.




Most of the fundies that I know claim to talk to God on a regular basis.



Have they ever experienced the nondual awareness of being one with God? Mysticism isn't about hearing voices.


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5948004 - 08/09/06 07:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
As far as I know, literalist Christianity gets its beliefs from scripture, NOT from direct experience of these transcendent realities.




Most of the fundies that I know claim to talk to God on a regular basis.



Have they ever experienced the nondual awareness of being one with God? Mysticism isn't about hearing voices.




And here we have yet another definition of mysticism. At this rate we may be able to compile a "Mysticism Definitions" tear-off calendar.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5948215 - 08/09/06 08:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

He didn't imply definition, but rather a single characteristic. Do I have to keep filtering the non-sense through your posts as I did earlier?

Please take the time to fully read each post and respond accordingly.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5948499 - 08/09/06 09:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You watch your tone with me boy. He implied that one isn't a mystic unless he had "experienced the nondual awareness of being one with God." Silversoul is smart enough to handle his own debates.


Edited by itstarssaddam (08/09/06 09:45 PM)


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: RRRR]
    #5948569 - 08/09/06 09:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

God is love....literally. It is an energy that is everywhere, an energy that is pure love. It is conscious and totally aware. I also feel that there are many higher powers, from all sorts of places and dimensions, and whatnot. But as far as "God" goes, God is love.


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Dark_Star]
    #5948822 - 08/09/06 11:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think lennon said it pretty good.
I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong.
John Lennon


--------------------
"It's a joke. Greed and the desire to take drugs are two separate things. If you want to separate the two, the thing you do is make drugs legal. Accept the reality that people do want to change their consciousness, and make an effort to make safer, healthier drugs."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5949361 - 08/10/06 01:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

So you feel that a literalist Christian should not be classified as a mystic?




:yesnod:




Here we have yet another example of a mystic conjuring up his own special definition of the word.  The dictionary defines a mystic as "One who practices or believes in mysticism or a given form of mysticism," and mysticism is defined as "A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience."  I'd say that the beliefs of Christians, literalists included, are most certainly beyond "intellectual apprehension."




I think SS sums it all up well (in both his reply and the thread he made). The fundamentalist's spirituality is mostly psychological, thus personal instead of impersonal, and is entirely dictated by their interpretation of scripture. I describe myself as a Mystic because my spirituality is ultimately defined by direct experiences of matters of pneuma, not ancient allegorical and metaphorical texts attempting to illustrate such experiences in colorful language.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Basilides]
    #5949563 - 08/10/06 03:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Mysticism is definitely not fundamental Christianity,

They both differ in their overall pursuits, fundamentalists look at the text as literal accounts of his-story

but Gnostic's have been long in the mix of mystifying Jesus and the religion itself, although the roots of gnosticism extend predate of the biblical era, their text has been intermeshed with biblical text to paint a abstract portrait of Christianity,

Gnostic's would like you to believe that Christianity was a mystical inspiration, but really I don't think some of what was going on was totally fiction writing, or was ever intended for it to be looked as such, (allegorical or metaphorically)

This is the point that I'm trying to illustrate, why does something like gnosticism make any sense with the bible, when much of the bible was never/ever intended to be looked at as simply a self-help/self-exploration book, but as a historical reference of actual proclaimed faith,

I'm not making a claim to whether it is false or true, but why would you take something out of its context and try to manipulate and confuse its purpose, unless you had a hand in the influence of a "false idea", for false persuasion can delude practitioner into thinking something is literally true, and give the source of the false persuasion status, now I have come to the argument of the 'anti Christ'. That the anti Christ will be manifestation of all false persuasion that is deemed true, that is why he would be viewed as a great savior, but really is the deep secret lie that has grown an festered through religious influence and has risen into one entity, such as Adolf Hitler, as the anti disciple to do gods bidding,


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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: capliberty]
    #5949598 - 08/10/06 03:45 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

This is the point that I'm trying to illustrate, why does something like gnosticism make any sense with the bible, when much of the bible was never/ever intended to be looked at as simply a self-help/self-exploration book, but as a historical reference of actual proclaimed faith,



Have you ever heard the term "midrash"? Judaism has a long, rich history of interpretation of sacred texts. Jewish mysticism goes back at least to the prophet Ezekiel, and the Merkabah mysticism which it inspired, and which in turn grew into the Kabbalah.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Define G(g)od [Re: Silversoul]
    #5949656 - 08/10/06 04:25 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Certain sects have had a rich history of their own interpretation, and it does extend back into the old testament,

and even some of the text itself is gnostic inspired writing, that the bible is definitely worded with definite false script, in which the old Church's couldn't totally root out all the speculative gospels that was circulating the few centuries after Jesus Crucifixion, alot of the weird creatures you here about in revelations, and alot apocalyptic acts are all gnostic imagination, but see the thing is, people look at this as literal truth, not some authors wild imagination, I have nothing wrong with philosphy and self-exploration from imaginative works as long as they proclaim it as such.

Some of us actually have others convinced that Jesus never was a person, but there were definitely tombs where crucifixions took place, and there has been evidence to suggest a person was crucified with a bright shinny gown, in which the bible has eluded to Jesus as wearing


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